USAF/US NAVY 6th Generation Fighter Programs - F/A-XX, F-X, NGAD, PCA, ASFS news

Airplane said:
sferrin said:
bobbymike said:
http://warontherocks.com/2016/08/the-looming-air-superiority-train-wreck/

If only somebody would have warned us about this train wreck back in the 90s. Oh wait, everybody did. Nobody listened.

After GWI the argument in the 90s was "no more aluminum airplanes" so production ceased and advanced 15s, 16s, and 14s never happened. Then it became "these composite planes aren't needed anymore; no threats out there." So no B2 and F22 except for a token 'throw a contractor a bone production run.' That's how you take down the world's mightiest air power. The final death knell will be if gen 6 is a revised F35.

It was probably more "The Cold War is Over" so the .gov cashed in on the so-called "Peace Dividend" and cancelled programs left and right. Those that didn't get killed outright were put on life support.
 
Global Air Power: Defining Air Superiority for the 21st Century (registration might be required)

http://event.on24.com/eventRegistration/console/EventConsoleNG.jsp?uimode=nextgeneration&eventid=1251370&sessionid=1&username=&partnerref=social&format=fhaudio&mobile=false&flashsupportedmobiledevice=false&helpcenter=false&key=326B0A34D9AD4DE49E55AFC55545CAA4&text_language_id=en&playerwidth=1000&playerheight=650&overwritelobby=y&eventuserid=151653447&contenttype=A&mediametricsessionid=120294874&mediametricid=1815096&usercd=151653447&mode=launch#
 
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/why-americas-6th-generation-fighter-what-comes-after-the-f-18066
 
https://warisboring.com/the-f-22-raptors-successor-will-be-bigger-and-faster-than-a-typical-fighter-522a24ff74a4#.r0w8kk9pk
 
bobbymike said:
https://warisboring.com/the-f-22-raptors-successor-will-be-bigger-and-faster-than-a-typical-fighter-522a24ff74a4#.r0w8kk9pk

Not a bad article but everything I've seen says target for PCS is mid-late 2020's not mid 2030's. Have I missed something?
 
Could be the difference between IOC, which I've seen given around 2028, and FOC, which would be some years later.
 
NeilChapman said:
bobbymike said:
https://warisboring.com/the-f-22-raptors-successor-will-be-bigger-and-faster-than-a-typical-fighter-522a24ff74a4#.r0w8kk9pk

Not a bad article

Except nothing in the article really supports the headline.
 
marauder2048 said:
NeilChapman said:
bobbymike said:
https://warisboring.com/the-f-22-raptors-successor-will-be-bigger-and-faster-than-a-typical-fighter-522a24ff74a4#.r0w8kk9pk

Not a bad article

Except nothing in the article really supports the headline.

Par for the course for that author.
 
Continuous High Pulse Repetition Frequency (HPRF) Mode for Anti-Access/Area
Denial (A2AD


OBJECTIVE: Research the use of continuous HPRF to improve detection range and other improvements for air-toair
and air-to-ground scenarios. Also, determine optimum tracking techniques to resolve ambiguities, computational
requirements, and cost trade-offs.
DESCRIPTION: In the first look, first kill environment against lower Radar Cross Section (RCS) targets, fourth and
fifth generation fighters need to maximize their detection range, range resolution, and velocity resolution. Fighters,
surveillance aircraft, and even commercial airliners want to be able to detect and identify targets at lower signal-tonoise
ratios (SNR) while minimizing the radar beam dwelling on a target. Commercial aircraft have the problem of
locating and avoiding small aircraft or micro unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs). Being able to accurately determine
the range and velocity, and track a target is problematic in many ways and involves non-ideal waveforms. The
probability of detection in coherent radar depends on the signal energy contained in the coherent processing interval
(CPI) and processing gain. The Doppler (velocity) resolution is improved by increasing the duration of the CPI,
which prompts the use of longer coherent train of pulses. The range resolution improves with the bandwidth of the
signal, which prompts the use of narrow pulses or modulated longer pulses. Two problems associated with long
modulated pulses are extended blind range regions due to eclipsed transmission and reduced Doppler tolerance or
resolution of the individual pulses.
The best technique for increasing the energy in a CPI, while improving range and velocity resolution, can be
accomplished by more pulses within a CPI. For a fixed CPI, this implies using a continuous HPRF waveform. HPRF
offers many advantages in addition to improved maximum detection range. For example: better exo-clutter
performance, improved range resolution, Doppler bins are narrower with decreased filter straddling losses, and more
points in FFT for better processing gain. However, the single most significant advantage will be the system's ability
to use one continuous PRF and dwell for long periods of time on a single resolution cell to increase detection
probability for low RCS targets at longer ranges.
However, the HPRF waveform, or mode, can suffer multiple unknown range ambiguities that are attributed to the
delay of returns from distant targets being longer than the pulse repetition interval (PRI). Currently, one common
approach to resolve range ambiguity is the use of several CPIs within a single dwell, where each CPI has a different
PRF (i.e., PRF hopping). Resolving true range and Doppler is then performed noncoherently, using an M out of N
decision statistic. Where, for example, M is 2 or 3 PRFs, while N could be as large as 8 PRFs. Thus, a 2 out of 8
detection decision implies that in the worst case only 2 out of the possible 8 CPIs contribute energy to the detection
process. This is a grossly inefficient use of the transmitter energy which, in turn, reduces the maximum detection
range.
Today processing power and sophisticated tracking techniques could be used to resolve these range ambiguities (i.e.,
eliminating second time around targets) in high PRF systems. The Air Force can take advantage of ambiguous
pulses more likely producing illogical tracks due to the far-out targets moving through resolution cells slower than
near-in targets, in addition to other factors. Tracking filters, Bayesian logic, and/or track-before-detect techniques
could also be used to eliminate these ambiguities.
Teaming/coordination with prime contractors is encouraged to facilitate transition opportunities.
PHASE I: Develop techniques to resolve range ambiguities in a continuous HPRF mode. Complete trade-off study
for various ambiguity reduction techniques such as tracking filters. Evaluate each approach in various air-to-air and
air-to-ground scenarios against various targets. Determine SNR, processing gains, resolution improvements,
computational requirements, and perform trade-off analysis.
PHASE II: Integrate developed techniques into a real radar or a simulated radar system using real data in a
continuous HPRF mode. Determine sampling, data bandwidths, and computational requirements. . Determine
performance parameters. Test and evaluate the most promising algorithms to resolve ambiguities using measured PHASE III DUAL USE APPLICATIONS: Construct a prototype system and validate techniques in production
representative environment. Determine performance parameters through experiments and prototype. Follow-on
activities include any customer-unique requirements, training, and operation documentation.
 
SECAF directs Penetrating Counterair Capability 'Technology Viability' study
October 27, 2016

Air Force Secretary
Deborah Lee James has directed a new study examining the technologies and
industrial capacity needed to support plans for a penetrating counterair
capability in the 2030 time frame, an assessment slated to be complete in 2017
and expected to influence a planned analysis of alternatives for a project
informally known as a sixth-generation fighter.

On Oct. 27, the Air
Force published a summary of the tasking memo directing the Air Force
Scientific Advisory Board to conduct a fiscal year 2017 study on "Technology
Viability to Support Penetrating Counterair Capability." A service official
said the terms of reference were signed by the Air Force secretary.

The Air Force plans
at some point in FY-17 to seek permission from the Pentagon's acquisition
executive to formally begin exploring a material solution for its requirement
for a penetrating counterair capability by conducting an analysis of alternatives.
The penetrating counterair capability was a central outcome of the service's
"Air Superiority 2030" Enterprise Capability Collaboration Team initiative, and
effectively rebranded what the service had previously called Next-Generation
Air Dominance 2030.

"Ongoing
developmental planning activity for PCA, including the [analysis of
alternatives], will benefit from an assessment of the viability of technology
options for achieving the desired survivability, lethality, affordability and
mission effectiveness, and an assessment of the technical maturity,
manufacturing readiness, and integration readiness of existing and emergent
technologies to support the PCA mission," according to the summary of the terms
of reference.

The panel is to
present its findings to Air Force leaders in July 2017 and publish a report in
December 2017.

The panel is being
charged to complete half a dozen tasks, according to the memo.

The advisory board
is directed to review the Air Superiority 2030 roadmap in order to understand the
role of the penetrating counterair capability and offer an assessment of
operational characteristics that would enhance the mission effectiveness of the
new combat aircraft against anti-access, area-denial threats envisioned in the
2030s, according to the memo.

"Identify
technologies that can enhance attributes of PCA effectiveness, such as speed,
range, maneuverability, signature, sensors, countermeasures, weapons type and
number; determine current technology readiness and the timelines and
investments needed to reach maturity," states the summary document.

James also wants
the panel to weigh industrial base issues, including "key technologies" needed
to support manufacturability, affordability and supportability of a 2030 PCA
capability and to "assess manufacturing readiness and integration readiness of
systems and components needed to enable and sustain such a PCA capability."

The group is also
to "provide a technology roadmap outlining essential technologies and
maturation timelines to support development and fielding of an initial 2030 PCA
capability, taking into account corresponding technology freeze dates,"
according to the summary.

The secretary also
wants the advisory panel to recommend "key areas for science and technology
investments to advance technology, manufacturing, and integration readiness
that can support future block upgrades," the document states.

This summer,
lawmakers approved an Air Force request to increase FY-16 spending on the
Next-Generation Air Dominance project by $24 million by shifting funds between
accounts, lifting the FY-16 total from $8.5 million to $32.5 million. The
Pentagon, in a June 30 reprogramming request, argued the increase was needed to
keep what the service now calls penetrating counterair capability "on schedule
to support an FY-17 materiel development decision" and to help identify, or
eliminate, potential technologies early in the analysis process. -- Jason
Sherman
 
via Lara Seligman
@laraseligman
 

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Wow. They removed the canards. Who would have thought we would have noticed it wasn't anything new?
 
Lara Seligman ‏@laraseligman 10h10 hours ago Arlington, VA

Check out Boeing's latest graphic for the @usairforce next-gen fighter concept (/F-X/sixth-gen/Penetrating Counterair) h/t @BoeingDefense
0 replies 34 retweets 36 likes

gK7ek3k.jpg
 
In this article we can see the latest (flateric) vision and an (2011 ?) old (muttbutt) vision of Boeing's Next-Gen Fighter Concept

http://aviationweek.com/blog/meet-boeings-latest-next-gen-fighter-concept

And here the intermediary (2013) vision of Boeing for the F/A-XX (with canards)

http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/boeing-reveals-updated-fa-xx-concept/
 
How much credence are we really giving to these concept artworks? Compare the ATF submissions and the YF-22 and YF-23 with the concept art released in the 80s.

That said, a tailless supersonic would be damn cool.
 
I thing the Boeing plane is in phase with the penetrating counter air need of a long range fighter less than a dogfight one. Big fighter with great autonomy but less maneuver .
 
Deltafan said:
In this article we can see the latest (flateric) vision and an (2011 ?) old (muttbutt) vision of Boeing's Next-Gen Fighter Concept

http://aviationweek.com/blog/meet-boeings-latest-next-gen-fighter-concept

And here the intermediary (2013) vision of Boeing for the F/A-XX (with canards)

http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/boeing-reveals-updated-fa-xx-concept/
Oh sorry she mentioned it was new... :-[
 
Steven said:
How much credence are we really giving to these concept artworks? Compare the ATF submissions and the YF-22 and YF-23 with the concept art released in the 80s.
That said, a tailless supersonic would be damn cool.
These are real concepts that were studied by Boeing under NGAD/F-X and then dropped in favor of more promising ones. Now these are being used for promotional purposes. AFAIR there are total six of them (there was explanation from ex-Boeing employee earlier in this thread with a photo of model he was given on retirement).
 
dark sidius said:
I thing the Boeing plane is in phase with the penetrating counter air need of a long range fighter less than a dogfight one. Big fighter with great autonomy but less maneuver .

Probably won't matter if it has directed energy weapons. You can't outmaneuver light.
 
siegecrossbow said:
Probably won't matter if it has directed energy weapons. You can't outmaneuver light.

Fly in to a cloud.
 
siegecrossbow said:
dark sidius said:
I thing the Boeing plane is in phase with the penetrating counter air need of a long range fighter less than a dogfight one. Big fighter with great autonomy but less maneuver .

Probably won't matter if it has directed energy weapons. You can't outmaneuver light.

My plane has a mirror finish, light reflects off of it. ;)
 
Sundog said:
siegecrossbow said:
dark sidius said:
I thing the Boeing plane is in phase with the penetrating counter air need of a long range fighter less than a dogfight one. Big fighter with great autonomy but less maneuver .

Probably won't matter if it has directed energy weapons. You can't outmaneuver light.

My plane has a mirror finish, light reflects off of it. ;)

Hope it doesn't get dirty then. :p
 
Very small cockpit transparency which is probably only useful for takeoff and landing - it suggests a heavy reliance on synthetic vision.
 
Looks like the USAF's Scientific Advisory Board is taking up the subject of what a Penetrating Counterair Aircraft should be:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/air-force-scientific-advisory-board-takes-second-loo-431023/

Before you can issue a detailed RFP, you need to have a spec. Sounds like they're trying to settle on a spec.
 
Another case of using off the shelf classified technology rather developing new stuff from the ground up then to keep time and costs down?
 
What ever happened to the demonstrators that DARPA was to build for this program? Here's the article:

http://breakingdefense.com/2015/01/kendall-unveils-sixth-gen-fighter-project-for-2016/
 
Mark S. said:
What ever happened to the demonstrators that DARPA was to build for this program? Here's the article:

http://breakingdefense.com/2015/01/kendall-unveils-sixth-gen-fighter-project-for-2016/

Since its funding was entirely in DARPA's classified budget we wouldn't know until they are willing to talk about it.
 
Alex119 said:
Looks like the USAF's Scientific Advisory Board is taking up the subject of what a Penetrating Counterair Aircraft should be:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/air-force-scientific-advisory-board-takes-second-loo-431023/

Before you can issue a detailed RFP, you need to have a spec. Sounds like they're trying to settle on a spec.

IIRC this timeline (Jan 17) has been out for a good while. Also important to note that the F-22 restart study is due back to the House no later than Jan 1, 17.
 
http://www.defensenews.com/articles/air-forces-next-fighter-jet-a-program-to-watch-in-2017
 
Extended CR will put hold on air superiority, light-attack experimentation

The air superiority experiments are focused on data decision-making and defeat of agile targets. The office is currently developing an experimentation plan that will then be approved by service leadership. Once approved and once funding is appropriated, the experiments will begin. The CAS experiment was meant to inform the service's process to identify a possible new low-cost, light-attack platform to boost its current fleet. That project has an experimentation plan and is awaiting formal approval.

Blackhurst said that besides concerns about the funding hold, he's optimistic that outside of this "anomaly year," funding will actually be relatively stable for the office once the spending plan is finally approved.

"We just have an anomaly year with a new-start activity, but this should be a rhythm, a regular rhythm where you have ECCTs, experiments," he said.

The Air Force has been working for the last few years to boost its strategic developmental planning process. Blackhurst's office, which the service stood up about six months ago to help manage the effort, resides within AFRL. The 15-person team supports the ECCT studies, oversees implementation of any plans that result from those studies and then leads experimentation campaigns directed by those studies.

The studies themselves are ultimately driven by the service's chief of staff and secretary, but they run through a new capability development council, which provides direction and receives input from various organizations about how to move forward. Underneath that council is a capability development working group that serves as a "watchdog" through the process, Blackhurst said. His office falls under the working group.

"The office is sort of the arms and legs of the Air Staff in terms of determining what needs to get done and how to do it and get the data back up to the Air Staff," he said. "Of the three concepts, we're the enduring one."

Because of Blackhurst's dual hat as director of the strategic development planning and experimentation office and AFRL's top planner, he also has a hand in helping identify what strategic capability development activities should be funded. In the past, those activities were identified at the major command level, but Blackhurst said this shift to his office brings the planning process to the strategic level.

The funding supports studies of ideas like advanced air refueling concepts that are not yet ready to move through the ECCT process but that could be applied "to a new way of doing business," he said.

"So we'll fund those this year and we'll produce a list of projects to the tune of about $28 million right now," Blackhurst said.
 
https://warontherocks.com/2017/01/the-future-of-air-superiority-part-i-the-imperative/
 
dark sidius said:
A lot of words but not real information on the futur system :(

Did General Grynkewich and his team get a chance to brief the President-elect?
I would think the AF would avoid specific details until the new President and Congress
start in on their first budget.
 
dark sidius said:
A lot of words but not real information on the futur system :(

We can wait to see what's in Parts III and IV...

And how they've come up with the "penetrating counter air" label instead of "6th generation fighter" and whether these are actually different
 

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