Nach meinen Informationen, allerdings vor 1980 gelesen, war eines der Entwurfsziele der He 100 die Reduzierung der Arbeitsstunden bei der Herstellung des Flugzeuges. Es sollen erheblich weniger Mannstunden nötig gewesen sein, die He 100 zu produzieren, als die Bf 109 zu produzieren. Zur Vereinfachung der Produktion wurde durch Heinkel-Ingenieure das Spreng-Niet-Verfahren entwickelt. Die Luftwaffe beharrte hauptsächlich wegen des Mangels an DB 60 Motoren und der bereits etablierten Produktion der Bf 109 und ihrem Glauben an die Überlegenheit deutscher Luftfahrtingenieure. Das es auch in anderen Ländern fähige Konstrukteure gab hielten die für völlig unmöglich.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
The Luftwaffe WITHOUT Messerschmitt
- Thread starter papacavy
- Start date
It is a pity that I didn't see this post until now.I saw this topic yesterday but I didn't have time to reppy.I am a die hard fan of Henkel.I have been wondering what would happen if He 112 won the contract since 2017.Regrettably, for all these years, I have been so preoccupied with lamenting the He 112 and He 100(Actually, I didn't pay much attention to He 100 too, most of it is He 112) that I didn't pay sufficient attention to Heinkel's other aircraft.I always think Willy Messerschmitt ruined Luftwaffe.I have been thinking what would happen if Willy Messerschmitt died before Bf 109 won the contract.This is very similar to the OP's question, so I was extremely excited when I saw this post.That said, I am not one for "what-if" scenarios; such hypothetical questions can be somewhat absurd, and I haven't actually given them much serious thought in the past. Nevertheless, I will indulge in a bit of speculation here. If Messerschmitt had never existed—and if Heinkel had faced no obstruction (from the likes of the detestable Udet and Milch), thereby being free to fully demonstrate his capabilities—the He 112 would have taken the place of the Bf 109, and the Fw 187 would have replaced the Bf 110. Furthermore, since Heinkel would have been fully occupied with the mass production and improvement of the He 112, the He 100—originally conceived purely for speed and developed only because Heinkel had idle time on his hands after losing the Bf 109 contract—would likely never have materialized. By the same token, the He 178 would also likely never have come into existence. However, the He 112 V3 prototype might still have been loaned to Wernher von Braun for the development of rocket-powered aircraft, meaning the He 176 could still have appeared around its original scheduled time. With Heinkel no longer restricted to bomber production, the He 111 might never have been built. The He 118 would have taken the place of the Ju 87—and, in truth, its performance was not nearly as poor as is often assumed. However, the He 114 would likely still have failed to displace the Ar 196. The He 115 would have entered widespread service, inflicting heavy damage upon Allied shipping. A further-developed version of the He 116 might have assumed the role eventually filled by the Fw 200. The speed-oriented He 119 would also likely never have appeared; had it done so, it would likely have entered mass service as a fast reconnaissance aircraft. During the Battle of Britain, the He 112—with its superior range compared to the Bf 109—and the Fw 187—replacing the Bf 110 (a fighter originally intended to escort bombers but which ironically ended up needing an escort itself)—would likely have prolonged the duration of the conflict. However, I would not dare assert with absolute certainty that Germany would have won the Battle of Britain; therein lies the inherent flaw of "what-if" scenarios—one can never definitively declare that a specific outcome was inevitable. Had the He 100 appeared at its original scheduled time—specifically the He 100 D-1 variant, which utilized conventional radiators rather than the wing-surface evaporative cooling system—and entered mass service, its sheer speed advantage would have placed the Allied forces under immense pressure. Had the He 178 appeared at its originally scheduled time, the He 280 might have entered service by 1943 or even 1942. At that point, upon encountering jet fighters, the Allied forces would have accelerated their own jet development programs; consequently, it is highly probable that jet-versus-jet combat would have occurred during World War II—rather than waiting until the Korean War. If the He 176 had appeared on schedule, its successor fighter models would have likely supplanted the Me 163; in such a scenario, U.S. daylight bombing operations over Germany might have proven significantly more arduous. The He 219 would have likely be produced more, inflicting heavy casualties upon British night bomber fleets. The *Volksjäger* (People's Fighter)—the He 162—would likely never have materialized, as the early entry into service of the He 280 would have meant the war situation did not deteriorate quite so rapidly. Given the early operational deployment of the He 280 jet fighter, the fast, piston-engined Do 335 might never have been developed. Had the He 112 and He 100 entered mass production, the Fw 190 might still have emerged; however, with the subsequent entry of the He 280 into service, Focke-Wulf would likely have pivoted to accelerate the development of the Ta 183—a design that might well have seen active service during the war. Consequently, the Fw 190 D and Ta 152 variants would likely not have been produced. The Ta 154 might have taken the place of the Me 410. If the He 111 had never been developed, the Ju 88 and Do 17 would have filled the operational void left by its absence. The He 177 would likely not have been produced either; instead, the Do 217 and Ju 188 might have been manufactured in greater numbers. The Ju 288 would have assumed the operational role originally intended for the He 177. As jet technology became more widespread, the Ar 234 and Ho 229 would also have appeared at an earlier stage. Incidentally—and worth noting—the HeS 8 and HeS 30 engines would have been fully developed and mass-produced. Conversely, the Jumo and BMW turbojet engines might never have come into existence. Ohain would then have turned his attention to developing the axial-flow jet engine he had long envisioned but had previously been unable to complete. Absent the peculiar, mandatory directives issued by the RLM, the HeS 011 engine would likely never have been developed. The He P.1073 would have taken the place of the He 162. Furthermore, various "Luft '46" concept aircraft—such as the He P.1076, He P.1078, and He P.1079—might well have entered active service. Moreover, given Heinkel's profound influence on Japanese aviation, Japan would successfully mass produced the AXHe1 and introduced jet aircraft much earlier. Consequently, the *Kikka* and *Shūsui* would never materialize; instead, they would be supplanted by Japanese-built copies of the He 280 and successors to the He 176. This scenario would undoubtedly make the situation far more difficult for the U.S. military. As for other Axis nations that utilized Messerschmitt aircraft, their aircraft, too, would likely be replaced by Heinkel designs. Haha—having written all this, I must admit that my knowledge of the "Luft '46" era is actually quite limited. As I mentioned earlier, I have always felt a particular sense of regret regarding the He 112; consequently, I am not very well-versed in other aircraft , so this analysis may well contain numerous errors. I truly had never given this specific "what-if" scenario such deep consideration before.I used Google Translate, so some expressions might be diffierent from what I thought.
I always think Willy Messerschmitt ruined Luftwaffe.
He did?
The best way for an aircraft designer, and a head of a company, is to make a superior product. He 112 was found inferior to the Bf 109 when the tests were undertaken.If Messerschmitt had never existed—and if Heinkel had faced no obstruction (from the likes of the detestable Udet and Milch), thereby being free to fully demonstrate his capabilities—the He 112 would have taken the place of the Bf 109, and the Fw 187 would have replaced the Bf 110.
Hence the several redesigns to the He 112 in form of different prototypes and zero-series aircraft, especially wrt. the wings.
Hence the He 100, where Ernest lists the Bf 109 as a target to beat.
Yes, without the defeat in the fighter contest, the He 100 would've not materialized in it's historic form.Furthermore, since Heinkel would have been fully occupied with the mass production and improvement of the He 112, the He 100—originally conceived purely for speed and developed only because Heinkel had idle time on his hands after losing the Bf 109 contract—would likely never have materialized.
He 111 was a smashing hit for Heinkel, being bought by LW and people abroad, and being the best LW bomb truck until the Ju 88 was perfected.With Heinkel no longer restricted to bomber production, the He 111 might never have been built.
The He 118 would have taken the place of the Ju 87—and, in truth, its performance was not nearly as poor as is often assumed.
How good was the performance, and what is assumed by whom?
Granted, a debugged He 118 would've been probably less susceptible to the Allied fighters.
During the Battle of Britain, the He 112—with its superior range compared to the Bf 109—and the Fw 187—replacing the Bf 110 (a fighter originally intended to escort bombers but which ironically ended up needing an escort itself)—would likely have prolonged the duration of the conflict.
How long-ranged the He 112 with DB 601 engine should've been, and with what fuel tankage?
Yes, the Fw 187 would've been a boon to the LW.
There was no He 100 without the surface cooling system...Had the He 100 appeared at its original scheduled time—specifically the He 100 D-1 variant, which utilized conventional radiators rather than the wing-surface evaporative cooling system—and entered mass service, its sheer speed advantage would have placed the Allied forces under immense pressure.
With that said, a He 100 with the 'normal' cooling system would've been probably the German equivalent of the MC.202 & 205, as well as of the Yak-3, depending on the engine - IOW, a very fast aircraft on the mass-produced engines, even if without some heavy firepower.
No problem at all.I used Google Translate, so some expressions might be diffierent from what I thought.
If I may ask, please use the 'space' key after the comma or period, as well as paragraphs; it makes for an easier reading.
