Tellier aircraft

[Stargazer]

Tellier bombardment flying boat, "built in 1916, tests performed in 1917".
I'm attaching the original, uncleaned scan from Le Document Aéronautique:



Looks like the T.6 to me:

 

[hesham]

I think that,it was Tellier T.3 ?.

 

[Stargazer]

I was surprised to find out that we do not have a dedicated topic for Tellier aircraft, so here is one... Here is a recap of known Tellier types:

• T.1 — a successful shoulder-wing wire-braced monoplane with a 35 hp Panhard-Levassor engine; sold in a few examples (1909)
• Breguet-Tellier "La Marseillaise" — one of the world's very first flying boats, and the first to fly well (1912)
• T.2 — a wooden-hull flying boat prototype with a pusher 180 hp Hispano-Suiza 8 Ba engine, forerunner of the T.3 (1916); destroyed after carburetor failure.
• T.3 — a three-seat naval combat pusher flying boat with a 200 hp Hispano-Suiza 8 Ac engine (1916), sesquiplane wings, gunner position in nose; about 100 built by Tellier and Nieuport, plus ten assembled from parts at GAZ N°3 to Russia (other sources give approximately 190 built).
• T.4 — a larger naval scout pusher flying boat, with a 350 hp Sunbeam-Coatelen "Maori" engine and longer sesquiplane wings; by war's end, 35 had been delivered out of the 315 initially ordered.
• T.5 — a flying boat with two 200 or 250 hp Hispano-Suiza tandem engines in push-pull configuration (also known as Nieuport Type BM for "Bi-Moteur").
• T.6 — version of the T.3 with a lengthened fuselage and cannon armament installed in the nose (1917); also known as the TC.6 (for "Tellier-Cannon"); 55 were built (other sources give twice that).
• T.7 — a four-seat high seas flying boat with three engines, two pushers and a tractor middle one (1918); 380 hp V12 Lorraine-Dietrich types were initially planned, but unavailable and replaced by 250 hp V8 Hispano-Suiza 8 B types, which proved unsatisfactory (a.k.a. Nieuport Type TM for "Tri-Moteur"); one built.
• T.8 — probably the designation of the T.7 after it received three 350 hp Lorraine-Dietrich 12 D engines and flew successfully; the type was later fitted with a cannon, like the T.6 was, and became known as the TC.8; one aircraft only, modified from T.7.
• Vonna — a planned Transatlantic flying boat developed by Tellier and Duhamel under Nieuport (1919); four 450 hp Sunbeam-Coatalen W18, or four 350 hp V12 Panhard-Levassor engines were to power it, but eventually four 450 hp Renault types were prefered (Nieuport Type 4R 450). The project was halted, partly because Tellier fell ill.
• hesham also mentioned an amphibian flying boat project based on a Tellier design, powered by one 430 hp Darracq-Coatalen 12A engine.

As of 1912, Tellier also starts producing floats for Nieuport, Astra, Farman, and very soon most French companies, plus Aviatik and Albatros in Germany.
In 1913, he also produces a hydroglider powered by an automobile six-cylinder Clément-Bayard engine.
In 1915, the company is chosen to build the huge Dorand-Bugatti triplane bomber, but the 200 hp Bugatti engine proves a failure and condemns the program.

A total of 687 aircraft were built by Tellier during World War I. That alone is enough for Tellier to be more than a mere footnote in aviation history!

I'll be adding photos and more info in the near future, but in the meantime, if any of you wants to add to this new topic, you are most welcome!

 

[PhR]

Few other Tellier built models: The TC5 "Pourquoi pas ?" (why not?), the TE1 and a Tellier-Riffard. Unfortunately, it is not possible to read the complete designation on the tail, as the last digit is written on the red part of the tail flag.

 

[hesham]

hesham also mentioned an amphibian flying boat project based on a Tellier design, powered by one 430 hp Darracq-Coatalen 12A engine.

It was called Nieuport S amphibian,from Docavia 38.

 

[Stargazer]

Few other Tellier built models: The TC5 "Pourquoi pas ?" (why not?), the TE1 and a Tellier-Riffard. Unfortunately, it is not possible to read the complete designation on the tail, as the last digit is written on the red part of the tail flag.

I purposely did not talk about the TE.1 because 1°) it was not a real Tellier aircraft, just a tribute to Tellier, 2°) it was built after Tellier died, and 3°) I previously covered it in a lot of detail in the Albert topic here:
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/edouard-albert-designs-and-projects.3907/

 

[Stargazer]

Darracq-Coatelen was simply the French company that produced the Sunbeam "Maori" engine under license.

 

[Stargazer]

a Tellier-Riffard. Unfortunately, it is not possible to read the complete designation on the tail, as the last digit is written on the red part of the tail flag.

The aircraft in the photo is simply the Albert E.T. 1, and again, it's not a proper Tellier aircraft since it was named Tellier as an homage after Tellier died, like the Duhamel-designed Albert T.E. 1. It What seems really odd to me is that the designation on the tail calls it a "T.E.(1)" as well... Perhaps someone realized the duplication and modified it to E.T. 1 after that? Also, are you implying that Marcel Riffard had a hand in designing this one?

 

[hesham]

As I explained in the post about the various Tellier models, the "Nieuport Type S" was simply a rebranding of the Tellier T.4, the "S" meaning "Sunbeam". Darracq-Coatelen was simply the French company that produced the Sunbeam engine under license.

The T.4 was built,and that's an amphibian version,never construction.

 

[PhR]

Also, are you implying that Marcel Riffard had a hand in designing this one?

I have this designation in my files, but it does not come from original Riffard archives. I cannot guarantee this information.

 

[Stargazer]

The T.4 was built,and that's an amphibian version,never construction.

The source you're quoting for the unbuilt "Tellier-Nieuport S" amphibian is French Aircraft of the First World War by J.Davilla & A.Soltan. They even give a three-view drawing of it (described as "provisional"). The reason I didn't include it in my list is the absence of other references (it's the only source I've ever seen about this project, which is not mentioned in other Tellier-related sources). Another source I found gave the designation Type S for the Sunbeam-powered T.4, which seemed consistent with the Nieuport designations, since BM, TM and 4R also indicated engines. Besides I only had a poor-quality scan of it. I'm not saying the amphibian project was not a Tellier-Nieuport (the wings are identical, the hull design is similar) but the tail looks typical Blanchard, not Tellier, and in the absence of other sources I remain skeptical.

Until more evidence is found, I will remove all reference to Type S from my list for now, because Google's blasted A.I. has drawn upon my writeup to so designate the T.4 as fact...

 

[hesham]

Here is another source,and you see it was a flying boat and actually built,and the project from
Docavia is an amphibian one,and also Vonna.

Hydroretro.net

 

[Stargazer]

Here is another source,and you see it was a flying boat and actually built,and the project from Docavia is an amphibian one,and also Vonna.

I know the T.4 was built and flown, and I have all of those sources already!
I wasn't questioning the existence of that project, but that of the unbuilt Type S amphibian!
As for the Vonna, I haven't given too much detail here because there is already a topic on the subject (although I wonder if they shouldn't be merged into one): https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/tellier-vonna-giant-aircraft-of-1919.6795/

 

[Stargazer]

I wasn't aware of the fact that Tellier, after a pause of several years due to illness, had actually returned to aviation as the head of S.P.C.A.'s design office. Here is an item from L'Aéronautique, April 1926, that mentions it. (I corrected my previous post in which I wrongly asserted that the T.E.1 monoplane was called Tellier as a posthumous tribute).

In addition to its business deal with the C.G.C.Aé—from which it acquired the license for the Météore trimotor flying boat—the Société Provençale, whose importance as a shipyard has steadfastly increased, and who seems intent on applying the same management rules to its aviation branch, has deemed necessary to possess its own aeronautical design office, entrusting Mr. Tellier with it, assisted by Mr. Duhamel.
Mr. Tellier's technical background is well-known: builder of the famous water racers he piloted himself; creator—from 1909 onwards—of the Tellier-Dubonnet monoplanes; and wartime manufacturer of our largest deep sea flying boats.
For several years, illness had kept Mr. Tellier away from aeronautics; his "comeback" will therefore be met with sympathy, as proof of his recovery, and we'll look forward to his first contributions with interest.

As a side note, Alphonse Tellier and Robert Duhamel didn't just design airplanes, as evidenced by this patent design for an "amphibian automobile vehicle"...