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Project SLAM / PLUTO

overscan

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Very nice- though the texturing on the fins looks a little off?
 

flateric

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Got Discovery Wings documentary called - yes - Project Pluto. File is quite simle to find on the net, though.
Of 50 minutes of film, SLAM scetchy inboard profile is shown for 10 seconds, BUT there are extensive coverage of Tory reactors fabrication and nuke ramjet tests at Jackass Flats. Awesome stuff.
 

sferrin

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flateric said:
Got Discovery Wings documentary called - yes - Project Pluto. File is quite simle to find on the net, though.
Of 50 minutes of film, SLAM scetchy inboard profile is shown for 10 seconds, BUT there are extensive coverage of Tory reactors fabrication and nuke ramjet tests at Jackass Flats. Awesome stuff.
Thing that surprised me the most (though in hindsight it's obvious) is that the exhaust was completely transparent other than the heat shimmer. No fuel to cause flame or smoke.
 

Orionblamblam

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sferrin

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Question I have is didn't we (the tax-payer) already pay for this?
 

Orionblamblam

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sferrin said:
Question I have is didn't we (the tax-payer) already pay for this?
Yes... but you know, photocopying a document... that's *hard.* Years ago, I often paid more than $20 to get a single ten-page document that, in the end, would turn out to be useless.
 

sferrin

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Orionblamblam said:
sferrin said:
Question I have is didn't we (the tax-payer) already pay for this?
Yes... but you know, photocopying a document... that's *hard.* Years ago, I often paid more than $20 to get a single ten-page document that, in the end, would turn out to be useless.

Yeah but it's NASA. Isn't the government (our taxes) paying for them to make that copy?
 

Orionblamblam

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sferrin said:
Yeah but it's NASA. Isn't the government (our taxes) paying for them to make that copy?
Apparently not. Keep in mind, our taxes are funding the military, and them bastards keep refusing to send me that M-1 Abrams I've requested under the Freedom of Information Act. And $100 bills are printed by the government... using *my* tax dollars! And do they ever let me have any? No!

:p
 

Arcturus

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Hello,

sometimes complaints seem to succeed: NASA now published a document with the title Proceedings of Nuclear Propulsion Conference as freely available PDF. Don't know if it's the same requested above because the old link meanwhile leads to a totally different document.

Report Number: NASA-CR-136688 from October 1963, 186 p., 22.8 MB. Contains some 20 papers from an August 1962 conference mostly dealing with the Tory-Reactors (design, test-runs etc.) The last three reports from Vought cover the SLAM (reactor integration, structure, aerodynamics) including some drawings, diagrams and USAF-Development Requirements from 1959.

This link should lead to the description: http://ntrs.larc.nasa.gov/search.jsp?N=0&Ntk=Report%20-%20Patent%20Number&Ntx=mode%20matchall&Ntt=136688

Directlink to PDF: http://hdl.handle.net/2060/19750064617


Regards
Arcturus
 

flateric

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Thanks a lot!
 

Michel Van

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Thank for PDF Arcturus !

here some Picture from It

Let face it
This is not a Cruise Missile but a Doomsday Machine out mind of Dr Strangelove !

the German called a military tactic "Verbrannte Erde" (Scorched earth.)
were you destroying anything that might be useful to the enemy while advancing through.

That puts SLAM PLUTO on New Level: Radioactive scorched earth.
fly on low Altitude of 150 meter over USSR with Tory III on Maximum Power
over agricultural field, cities...

i heard that at the End of Mission the SLAM PLUTO use this last H-bomb for Ground Detonation
and Rams it self at Full Speed in to Last Target site.

is this true ?
wen yes that produce enormous dirty Fallout (H-bomb, Tory III Reactor, Gold coathing)
 

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sferrin

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Never heard anything about "saving it's last bomb for a suicide crash". What I HAD heard was the idea of flying around spraying radioactive exhaust around until it fell out of the sky but then they found the exhaust wasn't as radioactive as they'd thought. Also the idea was to crash it into a last target but more like a city or area you wanted to deny people the ability to live in since it wouldn't go boom.
 

Orionblamblam

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sferrin said:
Never heard anything about "saving it's last bomb for a suicide crash". What I HAD heard was the idea of flying around spraying radioactive exhaust around until it fell out of the sky but then they found the exhaust wasn't as radioactive as they'd thought. Also the idea was to crash it into a last target but more like a city or area you wanted to deny people the ability to live in since it wouldn't go boom.
Pluto would use all of its bombs in the conventional fashion. Afterwards it'd go blitzing around the Russian countryside on a tour at high speed/low altitude. There would be some radioactive damage from that, but the bigger problem would be a white-hot freight train passing overhead at 50 feet while going Mach 3. Shock waves and thermal pluse woudl do a *lot* of damage to soft targets like farms, light building, wooden structures, telephone/power lines, vehicles and people. At the end it would either plow intentionally into some hardened structure target, or just fall out of the sky as systems break down. The reactor would not go "boom," but then you also would want hot uranium reactor elements stopping suddenly and being mixed with white hot vaporized forward vehicle structure. You'd get a fine smoke of uranium oxides that'd cos tthe area and waft downwide. It'd make Chernobyl look like Three Mile Island.
 

flateric

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I've heard of projects to use low-altitude reinforced-structure high-speed UAVs (MiG-19 based AFAIR) against our not-so-friendly-then Chinese comrades to kill or panic them in quantities after known border incidents. Tests were to be made on sheeps wearing overcoats. Again, after some calcualtions made of a/c structure stresses and possible sonic boom effectivenes, no one sheep was killed. Grads turned out to be much more effective.
 

Michel Van

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flateric said:
I've heard of projects to use low-altitude reinforced-structure high-speed UAVs (MiG-19 based AFAIR) against our not-so-friendly-then Chinese comrades to kill or panic them in quantities after known border incidents. Tests were to be made on sheeps wearing overcoats. Again, after some calcualtions made of a/c structure stresses and possible sonic boom effectivenes, no one sheep was killed. Grads turned out to be much more effective.
no if it fly at Mach 3 at 15 meter high (50 Feet) with white Hot Nuclear Reactor.
the sheep get roasted by Air Shock waves Heat, Neutron and Gamma Radiation, fine smoke of uranium oxides
Wat rain down as fallout

i happy they not plant to use "saving it's last bomb for a suicide crash"
because this make much worst than Chernobyl and this all over USSR !
 

Orionblamblam

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Barrington Bond said:
Hubba hubba!!

How near future?!?
Issue V2N1. Currently (as in within 5 minutes ago) banging away on V1N5. Laptop ground to a halt because the CAD file I was working on got to be just about too big to get crammed into the Word document.
 

prolific1

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I finished a cutaway illustration of Pluto for Scott Lowther's APR. It will be out soon to enjoy. I extrapolated as much from some profile diagrams and various inconsistent illustrations.
 

KJ_Lesnick

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What ultimately got this missile cancelled? I remember hearing that the routes it would have taken over enemy territory would have passed over allied countries -- but couldn't they have flown over the pole?

I know this sounds retarded but what's it's range?


Kendra Lesnick
 

scifibug

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Unlimited, once the booster brought the missile up to speed, air was heated in the reactor to propel the missile.
This also meant this same air became radioactive so everything along the missile's course has a chance to become contaminated.
The idea was that after it dropped its payload it could fly a programmed course over the enemy country before its suicide dive into a last target.
Diabolical huh?
Reminds me of something from a James Bond movie. ;D
 

Orionblamblam

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scifibug said:
Unlimited...
Sadly, no. The reality of the situation was that the reactor would relatively quickly begin to fall apart. Using *oxygen* as a coolant in a white-hot reactor is always going to be problematic, especially when you also run into smoke, bugs, fog, rain, snow, birds, particulates of all kinds. The longest range I've seen listed for a Pluto vehicle was about 98,000 km, as memory serves.
 

KJ_Lesnick

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Wouldn't a polar attack have got around the need to fly through allied countries to attack Russia? Or was there still some obstacle there?


KJ
 

flateric

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Some screenshots from PBS/NOVA Inventions Of War series, Cruise Missile episode, with a few captures from Vought promo movie on SLAM, Dr. Walter Hesse appearing and describing using SLAM early iteration desktop model, how exactly this beast should operate knocking off buildings by shock wave (while not dispersing nukes).
 

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Orionblamblam

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I've posted two new Pluto Poster artworks to my blog. The Pluto issue of APR is the next one, and I'm planning on releasing it within two months or so; the issue will have this artwork as an 11X17 foldout. But I'm also planning on releasing it as an actual poster (20X24 inches and 10X26 or so).

http://up-ship.com/blog/
 

flateric

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Nice ones!!! Can't wait for!
 

Orionblamblam

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Re: Project SLAM / PLUTO: poster available!

The first production run of Pluto posters is in, and they look great. If you are interested, the price will be $25 plus postage; I'll have the postage price tomorrow after I mail one off. They are 10 inches by 30, and will be mailed rolled.

The first production run was for a dozen, and 11 are now on hand. So if you are interested, send me an email, and I'll put you in line.

Thanks!



 

flateric

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Just thinking that adding SLAM general arrangement drawings in a lower left corner would be a great add-on.
 

jeb532

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Re: Project SLAM

sferrin said:
aemann said:
Another idea was to fly it up and down, like mowing the lawn, crushing everything unhardened in it's path.
There was even a sci-fi movie out back then that had an alien spaceship (I think, it was a while ago) flying 4000 mph round and round the world destroying everything with shock wave and radiation. I remember they showed them firing a pair of Nike Ajaxs that missed and I think they eventually ended up nuking it. As I recall the ship looked like they ripped it off from the 30's Buck Rogers.
I saw that movie late one night in the late 60's or early 70's (If I remember correctly). They did nuke it, but it didn't destroy it, just deflected it up away from the earth....

I think it was titled "The Atomic Rocket" or "Atomic Rocket from Space"...somethng like that...
 

greenmartian2017

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I jumped around on the pages here, so in case I missed it...

But the Americans weren't the only ones thinking of "crashing" nuclear engined vehicles into bodies of water...the Soviets did it too.

There was a serious proposal (I think that it was) for a nuclear-rocket engined version of the N-1 rocket (the one that was, in another version, to take cosmonauts to the moon), and after launch, have them crash into purposefully-built rather-deep lakes down range to take care of the radiation problem...

I think it was the N-1.

Flat Eric may know more...
 

Michel Van

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not quite

USSR researched on Nuclear power ICBM !
the YaRD ICBM http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/yardicbm.htm
had to use Ammonia as fuel

by the way USA researched also on Nuclear power ICBM
that stuff still Top Secret
 

flateric

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Michel is right while talking of nuclear powred ICBMs, but there were, of course, nuclear rocket engine powered *predecessor(s)* of N1, that were studied as early as in 1958. Korolyov's OKB-1 togeter with NII-12 has started work on several NRE-powered launchers with LEO payload in 30-40 t range in 1958, while OKB-456 (Glushko) and OKB-470 (Bondaryuk) were working on nuclear engines. Later, project grew to 2000 t with LEO payload of 150 t, using bunch of Kuznetzov NK-9 engines at the first stage, and 4 nuclear rocket engines at the second stage (thus preventing issues of atmosphere radioactive contamination, as engines were to start working beyond the Earth atmosphere). In parallel, OKB-1 was studying NR ICBMs as well.

To the end of 1959 it's became clear that LOX/cerosene engines are safer, much faster to develop, and nuclear rocket ideas went to the shelf.

More reading

http://dsbos.narod.ru/lost_moon.html
http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content/numbers/218/58.shtml
http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content/numbers/219/37.shtml

Moreover, there are hard rumours that Soviet analog of SLAM project existed.
 

greenmartian2017

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Thanks Grigori, muchly for these links.

I suspect that much of what the US was doing was mirrored in the USSR, and a lot of the time, vice versa as well.

But the Big, $100,000 question is: How much of what the USSR was doing was a result of its knowledge of US technical and technological studies trends gathered via intelligence collection?

That is little known.

But here is a small anecdote.

In "Aquarium" by the pseudonymous "Viktor Suvorov," he mentioned that the entire blue-lines of the USS George Washington were stolen, and a subscale version was built, and tested in the Caspian Sea (or was it the Black Sea? I don't remember off the top of my head). The Russians affectionately named it "Little George."
 

Grif

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This is a bit OT, but what is the vehicle in the N1 family line-up in the first link in Flateric's post? It looks like an SF "rocket-ship"!
Grif
 

Michel Van

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Grif said:
This is a bit OT, but what is the vehicle in the N1 family line-up in the first link in Flateric's post? It looks like an SF "rocket-ship"!
Grif
wicth one you mean the last in right ?
that is N1-MOK.
Ultimate derivative of N1. Single-stage-to-orbit vehicle based on N1 Block A. Propellants changed to LH2/LOX, 16 x modified NK-33 engines + 4 Liquid Air Cycle Engine Liquid Air/LH2 boosters. All figures estimated based on tank volume of Block A and delivery of 90,000 kg payload to 450 km / 97.5 degree MKBS orbit
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/n1.htm

if you mean last picture of big rocket down the page
that UR-700 http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/ur700.htm

here is another small anecdote.
the French Sureté Nationale note that KGB show to much interest on Concorde program
especially in the aircraft tire, the KGB payed a employed to scratch tireabrasion from the runway
the French Sureté Nationale caught the employed and gave him black chewing gum
so Wat end up at Tupolew tire manufacture ...
Source a french TV doku about Concorde

back to SLAM was there ever a Soviet version of SLAM ?
 
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