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Mirage F-2 and F-3

blackkite

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This F2 drawing is excellent especially area ruled fuselage shape. But unfortunately wing fillet is omitted to indicate fuselage line.

Please enjoy beautiful fuselage shape. I feel F2 is the most beautiful Mirage.
 

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blackkite

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Oh sorry. But never mind. No doubt Mirage is very beautiful!!:)
 

Jemiba

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Sadly many of my attached images disappeared - ...
This may be a result of those photos just linked and not attached.
I've merged the two threads, to avoid duplication.
 

Michel Van

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I made some "recherché"

The F2 prototype was disassemble in 1967 to become Mirage G (F2 - Fuselage and Engine)
Sadly the Mirage G crashed on 13 January 1971 and was destroyed...

What happened to F-3 mock up no info, likely they re-used it for Mirage G4/8 Mockup or scraps it...
 

sferrin

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Is there a book covering all the different Dassault designs?
 

Arjen

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That's right at the top of my wish list.

For books, that is :D
 

GeorgeA

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Is there a book covering all the different Dassault designs?
J-C Carbonel's books are pretty close:


 

sferrin

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I'll have to pick those up.
 

Archibald

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I made some "recherché"

The F2 prototype was disassemble in 1967 to become Mirage G (F2 - Fuselage and Engine)
Sadly the Mirage G crashed on 13 January 1971 and was destroyed...

What happened to F-3 mock up no info, likely they re-used it for Mirage G4/8 Mockup or scraps it...
Michel: this is not quite right. The Mirage G and F2 were different airframes. The G crashed but the F2 still exists. Somewhere on this thread, 12 years ago, or on another forum, I said it was at the CEAT in Balma, in a suburb of Toulouse. CEAT is destructive testing of airframes. Fortunately the F2 escaped that fate and has spent the last 50 years or so (it last flew in 1969) outside the CEAT.
I asked once whether it was to be preserved or not; the CEAT answered the Ailes anciennes de Toulouse (now Aeroscopia) was aware it was there.

To be fair, I think the Ailes Anciennes and CEAT have kind of partnership: the aircraft won't move but they take care of it. Better than nothing.

The Mirage F2 can be clearly seen on Google Earth and also on Géoportail.


F2.png

LMAO most of Google search results for "Mirage F2""CEAT" are me myself and me, on varied forums, since 2006 :p

Details of the undercarriage !

 
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Archibald

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The Mirage F3 might have been more than a mockup. Metal was being cut before the F1 prevailed, in the first half of 1967.
Somewhere on the (french speaking) web there it a tantalizing bit of discussion saying that a couple of Mirage F3 airframes were being build in 1966-67 but scrapped circa March 1967 without ever flying.
They ended in a scrapyard at Melun Villaroche, the AdA flight test center before it moved to Istres.

Fact is that fate of unfinished Dassault prototypes is usually very unclear. For example took me a while to learn the exact fate of the ACF after December 1975 and its cancellation, Scrapped, it was (Le Fana got some rare pictures of the prototype during construction).
Same for the Etendard II, IV and VI, there were a whole bunch of prototypes with all kind of different engines between 1956 and 1959, when the Aeronavale took over the Etendard series. There was a blown-flaps one with a system somewhat borrowed from the Buccaneer.
 

blackkite

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Thanks for wonderful information.
F2 is too beautiful to destroy.:)

Excellent model.
 
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Archibald

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Comaero says the following (page 76 of the above document)

There was first the Mirage F2-01, one of its kind.

Then contracts were passed with Dassault for the F3 that included
- a mockup
- turning the second F2 - F2-02 - into F3-01
- building a brand new F3-02

So kind of 2.5 Mirage F3 were partially build (the 0.5 being the mockup) and then in spring 1967 all this was scrapped.
 

blackkite

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I want to ask Dassault to contribute F2 and F3 official three side view drawing.;)
I can't use 3D street view.:D
Plan view is very important. It's better to use drone. I can see area ruled fuselage.
 

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Foo Fighter

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Interesting thought, perhaps if enough of us ask? Not likely but then again it is only a certain number of shopping days before THAT day so anything can happen in the next half century.........
 

blackkite

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Thanks I know. I want to see mare detailed drawing, for example very exciting F2 three side view in "Le Mirage F1 Vol.1" page 24.
This book also include same F3 three side view drawing.
 

blackkite

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Also picture please!!;)
 

blackkite

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Hi! More images. Enjoy.

 

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Archibald

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What it is somewhat remarquable is that the F2, F3 and G airframes were almost identical. It was somewhat a matter of swapping a 2-men cockpit for a single seater, or replace the swept wing by VG. By all accounts, one F2, one G, and 2 F3 were build or almost build, four airframes. To be a fly on the wall at Dassault in 1965-68 and watch these four airframes evolve into different aircraft...

A similar thing had happened a decade earlier. When you think about it, by 1957 the Super Mystère B2 and the prototypes Mirage III-01 and Etendard IV (all flown in 1955-1956) shared the same Atar 101G turbojet (the Etendard having a 101E - a 101G without the reheat). In turn the rear fuselage (lets call it the "Atar rump" ) was somewhat common to all three aircraft. Which then differed by
- the intake: frontal on the SMB-2, side-mounted on the Etendard and Mirage, the later having "mices" inside for supersonic flight
- the wing: swept wing for the SMB-2 and Etendard IV, a delta for the Mirage III

This is kind of unique in aviation history or at least the jet age - AFAIK. Same engine (101E / 101G) same rear fuselage, mated to different intakes and wings. Kind of modular fighter.
If one bought a SMB-2, an Etendard IV and a Mirage III 1/72 scale models, it would be possible to create hybrids - a tailed or no-tail delta SMB-2 or a supersonic Etendard with "mices" and reheat from the Mirage III. or a swept wing Mirage III.. wait, that's the F1, it had the Mirage V fuselage.

edit: Deleted one of my earlier post as unuseful.
 

Pioneer

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Archibald

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I think that Mirage F3 wing area was 28 m2, can't remember where I red that, maybe in the COMAERO document I linked above thread.
The Mirage F1 is really a 0.90 Mirage F3. Dassault really didn't changed the basic geometry between the F1 and the F3. It is no surprise the F1 crushed the F3, it offered the same basic performance at lower cost and with a French engine. Its supersonic performance might be actually better, since turbojets are better at high speed than turbofans, plus the TF30 had a diameter of 1.25 m versus 0.80 m for the Atar - lower drag.

As far as range and fuel consumption go however the F3 would have been much better for the same reasons above, but then again, AdA did not really cared about long range fighters or loitering time. West Germany would be the battle front, and we had a frontier with it.
 

blackkite

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Thanks a lot.:)

 

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blackkite

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Foo Fighter

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I did get a reply from Dassault.

"Dear Madam/Sir,

Thank you very much for your interest in our company and our aircraft.
Nonetheless we cannot answer to your request.
With some research, we don't have any public documentation about your demand.
Thank you for your comprehension,

Regards,
The webmaster".

I did expect something like this to be honest.
 

galgot

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I did get a reply from Dassault.

"Dear Madam/Sir,

Thank you very much for your interest in our company and our aircraft.
Nonetheless we cannot answer to your request.
With some research, we don't have any public documentation about your demand.
Thank you for your comprehension,

Regards,
The webmaster".

I did expect something like this to be honest.
Thanks for trying anyway.
 

blackkite

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Thanks for trying,too.
Dassault is in good faith just to give you a reply.
I asked the US Air Force Museum about the P-75 fighter, but there was no answer.:D
I like Sophie Marceau.;)
 
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Foo Fighter

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As they say over here, "You pay your money and have a go". I got a quite decent reply from Rolls Royce about the Meteor (Technically a Rover project) including a standing invite to visit and measure up their example.
 

uk 75

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The English love/hate affair with France extends of course to aircraft. Although they do not have the muscle of their US equivalents, France's Mirage family is as French as Catherine Deneuve or for us older chaps, BB.
Mirages look the part. There is even a French comic strip about them..
 
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