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Lockheed L-/CL- project numbers

circle-5

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And I was under the impression the L-200 was the early version of the Lockheed XFV-1, as identified on the side of this factory model (which came directly from Skunk Works).
 

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Stargazer2006

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Triton said:
I know about the L-300 designation for the C-141 Starlighter.
You mean Starlifter, not "Starlighter"...
I have L-200 for the commercial Starlifter and L-300 for the military one, but I'll have to verify this.

circle-5 said:
And I was under the impression the L-200 was the early version of the Lockheed XFV-1, as identified on the side of this factory model (which came directly from Skunk Works).
I thought this had been made abundantly clear previously in this thread, but anyway... YOUR "L-200" was a 1951 designation, part of the L- (later CL-) list of California Lockheed temporary design numbers that started at L-100 in 1939 and was used until the early 1980s (CL-2218 being the latest I found, but it may have extended a little further than that).

The L-200/L-300 Starlifter designations are part of a very limited set of strictly commercial designations introduced much later, in the 1960s.
 

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Skyblazer said:
I thought this had been made abundantly clear previously in this thread, but anyway...
Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa.
 

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Skyblazer said:
You mean Starlifter, not "Starlighter"...

I have L-200 for the commercial Starlifter and L-300 for the military one, but I'll have to verify this.
The L-200/L-300 Starlifter designations are part of a very limited set of strictly commercial designations introduced much later, in the 1960s.
Thanks for the clarification. I meant Starlifter and was confused why there was an L-200 and an L-300 since I had only known about the L-300.
 

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Does anybody knows which was the 2 February 1951 RFP GOR number won by the Lockheed CL-206 Model 82 C-130 Hercules?

Thanks in advance,

Antonio
 

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pometablava said:
Does anybody knows which was the 2 February 1951 RFP GOR number won by the Lockheed CL-206 Model 82 C-130 Hercules?

Thanks in advance,

Antonio

My dear Antonio,


that's hard question,but they also called it "SS400L",please see the text.
 

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Antonio

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Very interesting hesham, could you give me the source of this text?
 

hesham

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My dear Antonio,


the source is the book, Lockheed Hercules by Francis K Mason.
 

Antonio

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I'm not sure if we already have this GL-136 in the forum:

http://deeptowild.blogspot.com.es/2011/05/lockheed-gl-136-b-1.html
 

hesham

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Of course we did,my dear Antonio;


http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7380.msg64043.html#msg64043
 

hesham

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Hi,


does anyone hear about Lockheed CL-1147 STOL transport aircraft project ?.
 

Stargazer2006

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hesham said:
does anyone hear about Lockheed CL-1147 STOL transport aircraft project ?.
No, I haven't. I'd be delighted to know more about this.
 

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Thank you my dear Skyblazer.
 

hesham

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PaulMM (Overscan) said:
I can confirm the designation is correct.

Thank you my dear Paul,


and do you have anything about this aircraft (CL-1147),drawing or info ?.
 

hesham

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Hi,


if there is any drawings to Lockheed CL-1007 & CL-1010,that will be nice;


http://www.i-f-s.nl/f-104-types/


CL-1007 : Mach 2.2 version, in fact a hybrid CL-901/984 version with different avionics and radar (F15J)
L-1010 : Mach 2.4 version with R21G Nasarr and increased range capability (CL-901 based)
 

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Hi,


the first time in my life to know that,Lockheed F-104S was given the designation CL-807,I
only read in Tony Buttler's book,the CL-807 was a study to install alternative missiles on
F-104G.


Flying Review 11/1967
 

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petebutt43@hotmail.com

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From:
Journal, American Aviation Historical Society, 1999, Summer: page 102-112, Winter: page 288-297. 2000, Spring: page 53-63

Basic Model Numbers
L-129 high-altitude bomber project competing for Type Specification XC-124 against B-27, B-28
L-136 enlarged version of CONSTELLATION, project @1944
L-137 twin engine bombardment airplane proposal
L-145 commercial transport proposal, DC-3 replacements
L-147 small commercial transport proposals
L-149 appears in some sources for the CONSTELLATION, a probable confusion with the Model 149.
L-151 unbuilt airliner project [not as reported, PTV-A-1 ramjet test vehicle (later X-7)]
L-152 medium size turboprop or turbojet commercial transport proposals
L-153 XP/F-90
L-155 commercial jet-engined transport proposals
L-170 series of projects leading to TP-80C/T-33A SHOOTING STAR
L-171 PTV-A-1 ramjet test vehicle (became X-7) [project MX-883]
L-179 jet-engined commercial transport proposals
L-182 projected ASW version of CONSTITUTION
L-183 USN Specification OS-113 (became XF3H-1), interceptor fighter proposals
L-185 commmercial transport proposals, "DC-3 replacement"
L-185 pre-U-2 high-altitude project?
L-186 jet-engined commercial transport proposals
L-187 USN Specification OS-111 (became XA3D-1), long-range carrier-based bomber proposals
L-188 several projected modifications of the F-97 nee F-94C fighter [and civil demonstrator ?]
L-189 "A specific aircraft was not designed in this preliminary study for ONR, which was a generalized data generation program for carrier based ASW aircraft to be operational in 1956.
L-190 USAF interceptor proposals
L-191 strategic turbojet engine bomber system; a system called "team bombing." Team bombing was to be use of two aircraft-one was to be a manned guide aircraft and the other a remotely controlled bomb carrier that would fly only to the target and then be expendable.
L-192 USN Specification OS-117 (became XS2F-1), anti-submarine warfare airplane proposals
L-195 nuclear engine powered aircraft proposals
L-197 ASW helicopter proposals
L-199 VG-STARFIRE all-weather trainer project
L-200 XFV-1
L-201 commercial transport airplane proposals, DC-3 replacement
L-202 day fighter proposals
L-203 liason aircraft proposals, request of AMC. Tail seater.
L-204 several projected variants of F-94C
L-206 pre-HERCULES development of L-168 project with removable cargo pod (or YC-130??)
L-207 commercial transport proposals, DC-3 reolacement
L-208 XC-Heavy Transport and Parasite/Missile carrier airplane proposals, request of AMC
L-209 parasite bomber airplane proposals
L-210 ground attack fighter proposals
L-212 nuclear engine powered aircraft proposals.
L-227 series of pre-STARFIGHTER projects
L-242 series of pre-STARFIGHTER projects (a "Model 242" was also an F-104 competing against F8U!)
L-330 projected T2V variant
L-330 VZ-10 or XV-4A HUMMINGBIRD VTOL research aircraft
L-331 XV-4B HUMMINGBIRD VTOL research aircraft
L-402 LASA-60 small civil STOL transport (2 ex.,1959); license-built by Lockheed-Azcarate SA in Mexico
L-995 S-3A VIKING
L-1400 AX competitor of YA-9A and YA-10A (L-1400-1/-2) or a variant of the LANCER
CL = Lockheed, California
Temporary Design Numbers
CL-288 intermediate long-range high-speed interceptor project; F-104 with wing-mounted jets
CL-295 variants of study concept for tail-sitting twin-jet fighter with canards (mid-1950s)
CL-303 pre-ELECTRA transport project with high wings
CL-320 intermediate long-range high-speed interceptor project
CL-330 VZ-10A (XV-4A) HUMMINGBIRD (L-331 being the XV-4B)
CL-346 F-104 derivative with wing-mounted jets
CL-351 U-2R (later TR-1) high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft
CL-351 either a STARFIGHTER-related project or as the U-2R (TR-1) DRAGON LADY
CL-407 seven concepts for supersonic (up to Mach 3) VTOL recon and attack aircraft
CL-520 AEW&C P-3 project
CL-595 XH-51A helicopter (Model 186)
CL-635 numerous space study efforts done for NASA (1964)
CL-655 TSTO project
CL-704 VTOL STARFIGHTER derivative with single RB.168R and 14 vertical-mounted RB.181s
CL-800 either a variant of the ELECTRA or a four-jet transport based on the STARLINER
CL-840 AH-56A CHEYENNE assault helicopter for US Army (Model 187) (5 built) @1962
CL-900 either an ORION-related project or an early LANCER project
CL-915 lightweight fighter projects derived from A-12/F-12 series
CL-945 retractoplane design (helicopter with folding rotor blades) (CL-945-400)
CL-980 F-104S SUPER STARFIGHTER
CL-1020 TRICEPTS electronic countermeasures modification of SP-2H NEPTUNE
CL-1026 projected civil version of GALAXY with 30 seats
CL-1090 projected civil version of GALAXY with 80 (95?) seats, 36 tons capacity
CL-1400N LANCER lightweight fighter development proposed to US Navy
CL-1600 used twice, both for the X-27 and for the Tristar Twin project. Lockheed did the same a few other times.
CL-1700 highly manoeuverable tactical ground attack helicopter project (mock-up existed)
CL-1980 projected twin-jet fighter for USAF derived from A-12/F-12 series for F-14 competition (A/N) 1973
GL = Lockheed Georgia
Temporary Design Numbers
GL-207 SUPER HERCULES project
GL-210 version of NEPTUNE for Japanese Navy (found as GK.210, probably by mistake)
GL-224 pre-HUMMINGBIRD project
GL-293 fully VTOL version of HERCULES (GL-293-11)
GL-298 proposed STOL version of HERCULES (GL-298-6/-7)
 

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Very nice work Petebutt43,thanks.
 

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Skyblazer said:
L-402 LASA-60 small civil STOL transport (2 ex.,1959); license-built by Lockheed-Azcarate SA in Mexico
It was called CL-402,and not only L-402.
 

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petebutt43@hotmail.com said:
From:
Journal, American Aviation Historical Society, 1999, Summer: page 102-112, Winter: page 288-297. 2000, Spring: page 53-63
Thanks. I guess someone must have shared this list elsewhere before (but perhaps not on this forum?), since I don't have that issue of AAHS Journal and I already had all of these with the same wording next to them.

There is a mistake unfortunately in that the author confuses the "L-" series for Basic Model Numbers, which they aren't. They are all Temporary Design Numbers, but these started at L-100 in 1939 and the L- was replaced by CL- circa 1955, so in fact it's the same list that continues (as opposed to the GL- list which is a distinct thing).

petebutt43@hotmail.com said:
L-330 VZ-10 or XV-4A HUMMINGBIRD VTOL research aircraft
L-331 XV-4B HUMMINGBIRD VTOL research aircraft
CL-800 either a variant of the ELECTRA or a four-jet transport based on the STARLINER
L-995 S-3A VIKING
CL-330 VZ-10A (XV-4A) HUMMINGBIRD (L-331 being the XV-4B)
CL-351 U-2R (later TR-1) high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft
CL-351 either a STARFIGHTER-related project or as the U-2R (TR-1) DRAGON LADY
proposed STOL version of HERCULES (GL-298-6/-7)
Actually these are not part of the original L-/CL- list. L-330/-331 have always been kind of mysterious to me because they neither seem to fit within the timeframe of the CL- or GL- list, nor do they look like Basic Model Numbers. "CL-330" is just plain wrong and just a typo. CL-800 was a variant of the ELECTRA. L-800 was a commercial designation for a four-jet transport based on the STARLINER. CL-351 was STARFIGHTER-related. The later reuse of that number for the U-2/TR-1 may have been a ploy to surround it with more secrecy.
 

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Note the XV-4A HUMMINGBIRD was Lockheed Georgia. I think it was Model 330 - someone has assumed it was L-330.
CL-351 was F-104X, Mach 3.2.

S-3 was CL-995.
 

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Theres a mention in the TSR.2 files at Kew (Weybridge correspondence) of Lockheed looking at the type to fulfil a potential US. requirement (im guessing SOR.183?) did Lockheed allocate a study number or take the idea further?

cheers, Joe
 

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I don't think so. Their own TFX work was done under CL-590, and was VG.
 

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PaulMM (Overscan) said:
Note the XV-4A HUMMINGBIRD was Lockheed Georgia. I think it was Model 330 - someone has assumed it was L-330.
Yes, the Hummingbird was Georgia, and the designations L-330 and L-331 have been quoted for the XV-4A and XV-4B.
The problem is that GL-330 is JetStar-related. GL-331 is unknown.
Known Hummingbird-related GL- designations are LG 4, LGX-130, GL-204, GL-230, GL-233, GL-296, GL-364 and GL-380.
So perhaps L-330 and L-331 were just commercial designations, in the manner of L-100 (civilian Hercules), L-200, L-300 (civilian Starlifter), L-500 (Galaxy)?
 

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You misunderstand me. Most likely, "Model 330" is *not* connected to CL-330 or GL-330 TDNs.

According to Francillon "Model 330" is specifically the production designation of the XV-4 prototypes.

Favourable review of this proposal (Temporary Design Designation GL-224) led to the award in September 1961 of a $2·5 mn contract for the design . construction and testing of two VZ-10 prototypes (Model 330, serials 62-4503 and 62-4504).'
Lockheed Model numbers were often related to TDN numbers, but this was not mandatory. Model numbers incremented with a prefix which can create overlaps. Authors read "Model xxx" and assume it means "CL-xxxx" or "L-xxx".

The U-2R did not reuse CL-351, it was "Model 351".
 

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L-849 was a reused code; originally it was used for a planned development of the L-749 using R-3350 Turbo-Compound engines. On a side note Bristol Aeroplane Company came very close to license building the L-849 albeit with the Bristol Theseus engine. Unfortunately this was scuppered (as with so much else) by a short sighted Labour government.
 
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Not mentioned on the Lockheed designations list is the L-248, a Lockheed proposal for a nuclear-powered bomber with a wingspan of 380 feet, 5 feet short of the Stratolaunch's 385 foot span.
 

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From Aviation magazine 1954,

so weird,they mentioned that,the Lockheed L-295 was a developed version of T-33 jet trainer ?,what
was that ?;

Lockheed L-295. —- Today we publish the first photo of the two-seater training Lockeed L-295
reaction, performed on the manufacturer’s only initiative from Burbank. This is an improvement
to the T-33, including a cockpit with full equipment. lined, with two seats ejectable, including the
rear post elevated allows better visibility for the instructor. The wing features automatic Jenies
leading edge. The empennages affect a new design and a Parachute brake is used for landing.
Lockheed makes it happen to this plane the tour of the bases USAF and US Instruction Navy, in
an attempt to land a ordered. The L-295 is equipped of an Allison J-35 reactor. The scale. marginal
tanks included, is 12.80 m. :; a length of 9.14 m .. and the height of 5% m.
 

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Essentially, this was an upgraded T-33. Lockheed was unsuccessful in selling it to the Air Force (who was starting to see the need for a trainer that mirrored - to some extent - the performance characteristics of the Century Series fighters).

Lockheed then turned to the Navy who bought several hundred of a carrier-capable version as the T2V-1 Seastar (later designated as the T-1A and retired from shore duty in the late 60s/early 70s).
 

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This is all very interesting. I am particular interested in finding out the origin and use of L-100 for civil L-382's. To my understanding this designation is only used in Lockheed advertising of the machine. Delta's L-100-20s actually had that designation painted on the aircraft. However an inspection of any civil (purpose built, not a C-130) L-382 that I have ever seen (a sample of about 12 machines) do not use L-100 on the data plate or in their registration, making them in fact L-382 and not L-100 legally. Can anyone explain this?
I assume because Lockheed funded most of its type cert on the J via military testing, combined with the fact that the first two Js were procured as previously funded (FY 94) C-130H-3 explains why Lockheed stuck with 382 for the J, but it is just that, an assumption. Previous to the E model Lockheed changed the model designation with motor or major structural changes, ie: YC-130 L-082, C-130A and D L-182 (although the D and some A-II did have -11 vs -9), C-130B & F L-282, C-130E and derivatives L-382 (B and E share a motor but have major structural and systems differences). However at this point all subsequent models shared the L-382 designation. As previously mentioned in this thread, the addition U and V are used after 382 on Js, but letter designations have historically followed L-X82 in all models and sometimes refer to very minor changes- I have not managed to break the code on these either. For example the USAF C-130H-1 were all ordered in FY 74 but carry 3 different designations after the model number, my thought here is they represent blocks as they do not correspond with year of manufacture (74-78). As far as system or structural differences are concerned the USAF fleet of C-130H-1 probably came the nearest to being a "pure" fleet as any other C-130 variant (outside of specialized mission birds converted from the same group/block of airplanes for example the AC-130H/U fleet). Would love to read any information on the L-100 moniker or further explanation of the C-130H and J being the L-382 vs 482 and 582. Thanks, G
 
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