• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

Lockheed L-/CL- project numbers

Archibald

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
2,656
Reaction score
241
I noticed that Lockheed 70's project are all in the 1000 series
CL-1200 and 1600 are Lancer (F-104 derivatives)
CL-1400 is A-10 competitor
CL-2000 is the SST
I don't understand why they changed from their odinary system
(CL-595 for example)
PS have someone ever noticed that Lockheed and Canadair have the smae designation system ? CL-(+100 to 1000)
 

Antonio

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
3,371
Reaction score
50
Archie,

You can find Lockheed project numbers below the number 1000. For instance, the line of improved Starfighters that led to the CL-1200 Lancer were numbered in the 900 series.
 

elmayerle

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
1,264
Reaction score
17
I'm not totally familiar with the Lockheed numbering system, but I believe they went to the four-digit numbers after using most of the available three-digit ones for various studies and programs. There's a wide range of model numbers for the plethora of Starfighter derivatives studied over the years, just as an example.
 

lark

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
1,783
Reaction score
7
Indeed,

The Starfighter started life as Model Number 83.
followed by a whole series of Related Temporary Design Designations.
CL-264 tot CL-1600.
For exemple , the CL-704 was VTOL strike and reconnaissance variant.

CL: California Lockheed.
GL: Georgia Lockheed

Source :Lockheed Aircraft snce 1913
René Francillon - Putnam 1987
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,282
Reaction score
1,057
there are two helicopters in series,

1- CL-1700 for AAH competition.

2- CL-1800 for AH competition.,
 

Archibald

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
2,656
Reaction score
241
Hesham, this was I looked for to complete this lockheed serie ;)
I'm asking... is there a complete list of the F-104 derivatives, with a short description? I guess I ask a HUGE thing ;D
 

elmayerle

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
1,264
Reaction score
17
The only complete compilation of Lockheed numbers that I know of was done some 20 or so years ago by a gent who, at that time, worked in their field service engineering. He had some articles on this subject in APR under his real name, Bill Slayton, and a larger number of articles in various IMPS/US chapter newsletters under the "handle" of "Fatz". As far as I know, he kept one copy of the compilation (I don't know what happened to it after his death) and one went to the Lockheed-California library and they've no idea of where it is now or if they still have it.
 

devi

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
118
Reaction score
1
CL-2000-----it not SST
Lockheed SST-----Lockheed Model 2000 and TDN Model CL-823
 

Jemiba

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,022
Reaction score
213
In the latest issue of Air International, there's an article about the
Lockheed Jetstar. This article claims, that the model number of
the Jetstar, CL-329, stands for "Clarence Leonard", Kelly Johnson's
given names and the number of days from the initial drawing up
to the projected first flight.
Does anybody know if this is correct and if this "system" was used
for other projects, too ? It would make finding out the rules of the
designation systems really hard !
 

elmayerle

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
1,264
Reaction score
17
That's definitely not so. Lockheed model designations started out as L-XXX when there was only one main plant for the company. When they took over the Georgia plant where Bell had built B-29s (the hangers sized for this aircraft still constrain their vertical tail heights today, or so I'm told), the designation system was split to CL-XXX and GL-XXX as described by Lark's post.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,282
Reaction score
1,057
Hi dears,

do you have a more informations about those aircraft and projects ?.
Lockheed L-122 single seat fighter,
L-193 swept wing jet airliner,
CL-204 single seat fighter developed from Northamerican F-93,
CL-296 fighter (not sure),
CL-330 research aircraft,
CL-407 Mach 3 single seat fighter
CL-1060 compound helicopter.
L-1011-600 :a twin engined version,it was short/medium
range airliner with new tailplane and powered
by RB.200-254B engines.
L-400 Twin Hercules :twin engined derivative of the C-130
as short range transport aircraft.
 

Matej

Multiuniversal creator
Joined
Feb 13, 2006
Messages
2,617
Reaction score
41
Website
www.hitechweb.genezis.eu
hesham said:
CL-204 single seat fighter developed from
Northamerican F-93
Isnt it L-204? Final development of P-80/F-94... Three view is in appendix B in Lockheed Skunk Works book by Jay Miller.
 

elmayerle

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
1,264
Reaction score
17
Matej said:
hesham said:
CL-204 single seat fighter developed from
Northamerican F-93
Isnt it L-204? Final development of P-80/F-94... Three view is in appendix B in Lockheed Skunk Works book by Jay Miller.
It most definitely is.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,282
Reaction score
1,057
Dear Matej,

you dont answer me about Lockheed CL-296,and I will ask you about Lockheed
CL-915,which design was based on A/F-12 fighter.
 

Matej

Multiuniversal creator
Joined
Feb 13, 2006
Messages
2,617
Reaction score
41
Website
www.hitechweb.genezis.eu
hesham said:
Dear Matej,

you dont answer me about Lockheed CL-296,and I will ask you about Lockheed
CL-915,which design was based on A/F-12 fighter.
Yes hesham, I did not answer because I dont know what to answer. I checked my archive and did not found any info about CL-296.

Regarding to CL-915, only some of designs of that serie were based on A/F-12 fighter. For example CL-915-8 looks a bit like Rafale, CL-915-5 like Yak-45 or CL-915-6 like F-8. Simple 3 views are in Skunk Works book, if you want, I can make a scans. All that serie led to CL-1980.
 

Antheii

CLEARANCE: Restricted
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Hi,

On the subject of the Lockheed designation numbers, I have a question which puzzles me for quite some time now;

As we all know, the P-3 -or Lockheed Model 85- is based on the L-188 Electra.

But when you follow the general accepted designations, the Electra being Basic Model Number 88 and the Orion Basic Model Number 85, I have a problem with the rule of those Model numbers being issued in consecutive order.

I guess the model number for the P-3 is correct (with the P-3A and P-3B being Model 185, the P-3C being 285 and some exports being Models 685 and 785).

But what is the Electra then?
It doesn't fit in the 80 to 85 range anymore, with all designations counted for, and it's too recent to be below Basic Model Number 80.

The only two solutions I can come up with is that either the Electra doesn't have a Basic Model Number at all, which would surprise me.
Or the Electra is the first variant in the 85-series (being the Modified Basic Model Number 085, which is unaccounted for as far as I know) with the L-188 only being the commercial designation - like L-1011 for the TriStar.

Your thoughts on this?

Regards,

Antheii
 

Orionblamblam

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
7,418
Reaction score
278
Website
www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com
elmayerle said:
As far as I know, he kept one copy of the compilation (I don't know what happened to it after his death) and one went to the Lockheed-California library and they've no idea of where it is now or if they still have it.
Oh... it exists. MUAAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!!!!!!!

:p
 

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,242
Reaction score
100
Here is what I have in the 1000+ range of Lockheed designations:

Model 1049-55-96 SUPER CONSTELLATION
Model 1049B SUPER CONSTELLATION
Model 1049C SUPER CONSTELLATION
Model 1049D SUPER CONSTELLATION
Model 1049E SUPER CONSTELLATION
Model 1049F SUPER CONSTELLATION
Model 1049G SUPER CONSTELLATION
Model 1049H SUPER CONSTELLATION
Model 1249A SUPER CONSTELLATION
Model 1649 STARLINER
Model 1649A STARLINER
Model 1080 projected variant of SHOOTING STAR

L-1000 tri-turbojet interceptor project (designation assigned early, out of sequence) 0 1941
CL-1010 project apparently connected to the STARFIGHTER and destined to JASDF
L-1011 TRISTAR tri-jet airliner (Model 193) @1971
CL-1020 TRICEPTS electronic countermeasures modification of SP-2H NEPTUNE
CL-1026 projected civil version of GALAXY with 30 seats 0
CL-1090 projected civil version of GALAXY with 80 (95?) seats, 36 tons capacity (CL-1090-1?) 0
CL-1200 LANCER lightweight fighter derived from F-104 (CL-1200-1/-2), 1 built
CL-1235 mentioned on Allied Computing website; no data
CL-1236 mentioned on Allied Computing website; no data
CL-1237 mentioned on Allied Computing website; no data
L-1400 AX competitor of YA-9A and YA-10A (L-1400-1/-2), none built
CL-1400N LANCER lightweight fighter development proposed to US Navy, none built
CL-1600 twin-engined projected development of LANCER to compete against F-16 and F-17, none built
CL-1700 highly manoeuverable tactical ground attack helicopter project (mock-up existed), none built
AMSA-1968 bomber project competing with Rockwell's B-1, none built
AMSA-1969 bomber project competing with Rockwell's B-1, none built
CL-1980 1973 projected twin-jet fighter for USAF derived from A-12/F-12 series for F-14 competition (A/N), none built

Although the "Model" designations refer to variations of a basic Model number (Models 49 and 80) and the CL- designations refer to actual design studies, the L- designations are probably only commercial monickers. The AMSA- designations are not necessarily part of that same list either.
 

Maveric

Fight for yor Right!
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
1,783
Reaction score
52
Hi all,

I search for the correct CL-,GL- or LGA-numbers of the following Lockheed aircrafts...
1) P.3C "Orion"
2) T.33A
3) C.141A and B "Starlifter"
4) Model 286 (Helicopter)
5) C.130 "Hercules" (Model 82) I know L.206 was the YC.130.
6) C.5A and B "Galaxy"
7) F.94B "Starfire"
8) P2V-7 "Neptune" (Model 26) (I know this was a Vega development V.146, but had this bird also a Lockheed designation)
9) S.3A"Viking" (Model 93)
10) SR.71A
11) YF.12A/A.12A
12) U.2C
13) TR.1
14) YO.3A
15) "Q-Star"
16) QT.2
17) F.117A
18) XV.4/VZ.10
19) X.16 (project)



Thanks Maveric
 

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,242
Reaction score
100
Some designations for you, related to the programs you've mentioned (though not always the versions you requested). Hope this helps, anyway... and that my sources didn't get mixed up between L-/CL- and GL-! (one major reason why I chose early on NOT to bother organizing the Lockheed designation numbers... such a headache!)

CL-520: AEW&C P-3 project
CL-351: U-2R (later TR-1) high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft
CL-595: XH-51A helicopter (Model 186)
CL-1026: projected civil version of GALAXY with 30 seats
CL-1090: projected civil version of GALAXY with 80 (95?) seats, 36 tons capacity
CL-1020: TRICEPTS electronic countermeasures modification of SP-2H NEPTUNE
CL-1980: projected twin-jet fighter for USAF derived from A-12/F-12 series for F-14 competition (A/N)

GL-207: SUPER HERCULES project
GL-210: version of NEPTUNE for Japanese Navy (found as GK.210, probably by mistake)
GL-224: pre-HUMMINGBIRD project
GL-293: fully VTOL version of HERCULES (GL-293-11)
GL-298: proposed STOL version of HERCULES (GL-298-6/-7)

L-170: series of projects leading to TP-80C/T-33A SHOOTING STAR
L-188: F-97A/F-94C STARFIRE and civil demonstrator
L-199: VG-STARFIRE all-weather trainer project
L-204: several projected variants of F-94C
L-330: VZ-10 or XV-4A HUMMINGBIRD VTOL research aircraft
L-331 : XV-4B HUMMINGBIRD VTOL research aircraft
L-995 : S-3A VIKING
 

AM

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
206
Reaction score
2
Hi all

from Putnam

L / CL-Series
100 Hudson development with American armament
101 See Hudson
102 See P-38
103 See Hudson


106 XP-49
107 See Hudson
108 See Hudson
109 See Hudson
110 See Model 12
111 See P-38


114 See Hudson

116 See Vega Ventura
117 See Constellation

119 Model 14 Super Electra

121 XP-58 Chain Lightning Escort fighter
122 L-149
123 See Lodestar
124 See P-38
125 See Lodestar
126 See Model 12

128 See Vega Ventura
***
133 Two-engined jet fighter
134 XP-58
***
140 XP-80
141 XP-80A See F-80
***
146 See Saturn
***
149 See Constellation
150 See Model 89
151 See Constellation


154 See Model 89

156 See Saturn
157 See F-80

159 See F-80


162 See Constellation
163 See Constellation

165 Civil cargo version of P2V

167 See F-90
168 See Model 89
169 See F-90
170 See F-80

172 See F-80

174 Photographic-reconnaissance version of P2V with new fuselage
175 Compound engine installation (led to P2V-4 version)
176 See Saturn
177 See F-80
178 Proposed carrier-borne version of P2V


181 P-80E See F-80


184 Powerplant installation interchangeable with that of the Constelletion to P2V
***
188 See F-80
***
193 Passenger liner
194 Minimum change version of P2V

196 See Constellation

198 High-altitude version of P2V with propeller-turbines
199 See F-94 (trainer)
***
204 See F-94 (VG version)
205 Model 99
***
211 See Constellation


214 See Constellation
***
218 Longer fuselage version of P2V

220 P2V-7 (Model 726)

222 See Constellation


225 Nuclear-powered bomber
***
235 See Constellation

237 See Hercules

239 See T-33
***
244 See Constellation
245 Lockheed Trainer. Carrier trainer derivate T-33A, prototype for the T2V
246 XF-104



255 See Super Constellation
256 See T-33
257 W2V-1 See Constellation
258 Proposed P2V-8, lighter and with better performance

260 Long-range rescue version of P2V-7


263 Nuclear-powered bomber
264 See F-104
265 See F-104
***
275 See Constellation

277 See Super Constellation


280 See Model 89

282 High-altitude reconnaissance version of the F-104

284 Nuclear-powered bomber

286 Nuclear-powered bomber
***
292 See L-188 Elrctra
293 Nuclear-powered bomber
294 See Super Constellation
***
301 P2V-7 derivative



305 P2V-8 study
***
310 See L-188 Elrctra
311 See SeaStar
312 See SeaStar
313 Nuclear-powered bomber
***
317 See F-104

319 Nuclear-powered bomber
***
323 See Super Constellation

325 Strateg. Resse aircraft


328 See L-188 Elrctra
329 Jetstar
330 See SeaStar
***
335 See Super Constellation
***
340 See SeaStar (proposed lightened model for basic training)
341 See SeaStar (transonic training version)
342 U-2

344 See Constellation
***
351 See F-104
352 See SeaStar (proposed light-weight all-weather fighter version)
353 Four-engined derivative of P2V with low wing
354 See F-104
355 See L-188 Electra

357 See F-104

359 See F-104
***
365 See Constellation

367 See L-188 Electra
368 See L-188 Electra
369 See F-104

371 See F-104
372 See Super Constellation
373 See Super Constellation
374 See Super Constellation
375 See Super Constellation


378 See SeaStar

380 See Starliner
381 See Super Constellation


384 See SeaStar
385 See Super Constellation
386 See F-104
387 See F-104
388 See F-104
389 See F-104
390 See L-188 Electra



394 See Starliner
395 See Super Constellation
396 See F-104
397 See F-104


400 Saturn High-altitude supersonic reconnaissance aircraft


403 See F-104
404 See F-104
***
410 See Starliner
411 See F-104
412 See L-188 Electra


415 See Hercules
***
419 See Super Constellation
***
423 P2V-7 derivative for Japan
***
427 See P-3
***
431 P2V derivative for MAP-delivery to South American customers
***
435 See L-188 Electra
436 See Super Constellation

438 Standoff fighter version of P2V with long-range Eagle AAM
***
446 See F-104

448 See F-104


451 See Hercules
***
456 See F-104
457 See F-104
458 See F-104
***
470 See L-188 Electra

472 See L-188 Electra
473 See P-3

475 Light helicopter
476 P2V-7 modernization


479 See F-104


482 See P-3
***
488 See F-104
489 See Starliner
490 See P-3

492 See L-188 Electra
***
495 Version of P2V proposed to Royal Netherlands Navy in competition with Breguet Atlantic
496 See P-3
497 See P-3
***
501 See L-188 Electra
***
505 See P-3
506 See P-3


509 See F-104

511 See F-104

513 See F-104
***
520 ECM aircraft based on P-3
521 See F-104
***
528 See SeaStar
529 See F-104

531 See C-5
532 See H-51
***
537 See F-104
538 See F-104
539 See F-104
***
544 See P-3
545 See Super Constellation


548 See L-188 Electra
549 See L-188 Electra





***
557 Re-arrange Julie/Jezebel configuration of P2V
558 See F-104
559 See L-188 Electra
560 See L-188 Electra
***
566 See P-3

568 See P-3
***
572 See L-188 Electra
573 See L-188 Electra
***
580 See P-3


583 See F-104


586 See F-104
587 See L-188 Electra
588 See F-104
***
595 XH-51A
***
701 See L-188 Electra

703 See H-51
704 VTOL fighter derivate from F-104 with single RB.168R and 14 vertical-mounted RB.181s
705 See F-104
***
711 See H-51

713 See H-51
714 See H-51
715 See H-51
***
720 See H-51
721 See H-51

725 See L-188 Electra


728 See F-104
729 See P-3

731 See F-104


734 See P-3
735 See P-3



739 See F-104
***
744 See H-51
745 See H-51
746 See F-104
747 See F-104

749 See P-3
***
753 See Hercules
***
758 See P-3
759 See P-3
760 COIN aircraft


763 See P-3


766 See P-3

768 See P-3

770 See P-3
771 See P-3
772 See F-104
773 See P-3

775 See P-3

777 See P-3

779 See P-3
780 See P-3
781 See F-104

783 See P-3
784 See F-104
785 See P-3
786 See P-3
787 See P-3


790 See P-3

792 See P-3


795 See P-3
796 See P-3
797 See P-3
798 P2V-7 KAI proposal for development by Kawasaki
799 See F-104
800 See L-188 Electra
801 See P-3

803 See P-3


806 Further development of CL-798
807 See F-104
808 See P-3
809 See P-3
***
813 See P-3
814 See F-104
815 See T-33
***
821 See P-3
822 See P-3
823 L-2000 SST
824 See P-3
825 See H-51
826 See P-3
827 See P-3
828 See P-3
829 See F-104
830 See F-104
831 See P-3
832 See P-3
833 See P-3
834 See P-3
835 See F-104
836 See F-104
837 See F-104
***
842 See P-3
843 See P-3
844 See P-3
845 See F-104

847 See F-104

849 See F-104
850 See P-3
***
856 See P-3
857 See P-3
858 See P-3
859 See F-104
860 See P-3
861 See P-3

863 See P-3
864 See H-51

866 See P-3
867 See P-3
***
872 See H-51
873 See H-51
***
877 See H-51
878 See H-51

880 See P-3
881 See P-3
882 See P-3
883 See P-3
884 See P-3

886 ASW versions of P2V with airborne radiation measuring equipment
887 See F-104
***
892 See P-3
***
896 See Super Constellation
897 See P-3
898 See P-3

900 See P-3
901 See F-104
902 See P-3
903 See P-3
904 See P-3
905 See P-3
906 See P-3
907 See P-3
908 See P-3
909 See P-3
910 See P-3

911 See P-3
912 See P-3
***
918 See F-104


921 See P-3

923 See P-3
924 See P-3

926 See P-3
927 See P-3
928 See P-3
929 See P-3
***
934 See F-104


937 See F-104
***
940 See H-51


943 See P-3
944 See P-3

946 See P-3
947 See P-3
948 See P-3
949 See P-3
950 See P-3
951 See P-3
952 See P-3
953 See P-3
954 See P-3
955 See P-3
956 See H-51

958 See F-104
959 See P-3
960 See P-3
961 See P-3
962 See P-3
963 See P-3
964 See P-3
965 See P-3
966 See P-3
967 See P-3
968 See P-3
970 See P-3
971 See P-3
972 See P-3
973 See P-3
974 See P-3
975 See P-3
976 See Jetstar

978 See F-104


981 See F-104
982 See F-104
983 See F-104
984 See F-104
985 See F-104
***
991 See P-3
992 See P-3
993 See P-3
994 See P-3
995 See S-3
996 See P-3

998 See P-3
999 See H-51


1002 See S-3


1005 See F-104
1006 See F-104
1007 See F-104
1008 See F-104

1010 See F-104
1011 CL-1011
1012 See P-3
1013 See P-3
1014 See P-3
1015 See P-3
1016 See P-3
1017 See P-3
1018 AP-2H Project TRIM
1019 Improved crew emergency escape provision for P2V
1020 Project TRICEPTS: ECM modification of SP-2H
1021 See Super Constellation
1022 See H-51

1024 See H-51
1025 See AH-56
1026 30-seat civil derivative of the AH-56
1027 See AH-56

1029 See AH-56

1031 See AH-56
1032 See AH-56
1033 See AH-56
1034 Project PRACTICE 9: high-altitude monitoring modification of P2V
1035 See P-3
1036 See P-3
1037 See P-3
1038 See P-3
1039 See P-3
1040 See P-3
1041 Revised AP-2H (Project TRIM)
1042 See P-3
1043 Advanced TRIM version


1046 Modernized P-2 with quiet propeller-turbines, turbofans or ducted fan engines

1048 See H-51
1049 See Jetstar
1050 See AH-56
1051 See AH-56
1052 See AH-56


1055 See AH-56


1058 See F-104
1059 See F-104


1062 More easily produced TRIM version of P2V
1063 See P-3
1064 See Hercules
1065 Gunship conversion of SP-2E
1066 Proposed replacement of J34 turbojets with General Electric J85s for P2V
1067 See Super Constellation
1068 Improved TRIM armament proposal for P2V
1069 See P-3
1070 See P-3
1071 See P-3
***
1075 See H-51

1077 See AH-56
1078 See AH-56

1080 T-1A (T2V-1) See T-33
1081 See AH-56


1084 See AH-56
***
1090 90-seat civil helicopter
1091 See AH-56

1093 See AH-56
1094 See AH-56

1096 See AH-56
***
1105 See H-51

1107 See H-51
1108 See H-51


1111 See AH-56
1112 See AH-56
1113 See AH-56



1117 See AH-56
1118 See H-51



1122 See AH-56
1123 See AH-56



1127 See P-3
1128 See P-3
1129 See C-5
1130 See P-3
1131 See P-3
1132 See P-3
1133 See P-3
1134 See P-3
1135 See Super Constellation
***
1142 See Super Constellation
1143 See P-3
1144 See Super Constellation
***
1148 See P-3
1149 See P-3
1150 See P-3
1151 Project KLIP: proposed P-2 modification for coastal search
1152 See P-3
1153 See P-3
1154 See Super Constellation
1155 See P-3
1156 See P-3
***
1162 See P-3

1164 See P-3
1165 See P-3
1166 See P-3
1167 See P-3
1168 See Hercules
1169 See P-3
1170 See P-3
***
1174 See P-3
1175 See P-3
1176 See P-3
1177 See P-3

1079 See Lodestar
1180 See P-3
1181 See P-3

1183 See P-3

1185 See P-3
1186 See P-3

1188 See P-3
1189 See P-3
1190 Proposed SP-2H conversion as sensor testbed
1191 See P-3
1192 See P-3
1193 See P-3
1194 See P-3
1195 See F-104
***
1199 See F-104
1200 See F-104

1202 See P-3
1203 See P-3
1204 See P-3
1205 See P-3
1206 See P-3
1207 See P-3
1208 See L-1011
1209 See P-3
1210 See P-3
1211 See L-1011


1214 See AH-56
1215 See P-3
1216 See P-3
1217 See P-3
1218 See P-3
1219 See L-1011
1220 See S-3



1224 See S-3
1225 See Super Constellation

1227 See P-3
1228 See P-3
1229 See P-3
1230 See P-3
1231 See P-3
1232 See P-3
1233 See P-3
1234 See S-3
1235 See S-3
1236 See S-3
1237 See S-3
1238 See S-3
1239 See S-3
1240 See S-3
1241 See S-3
1242 See S-3
1243 See S-3
***
1251 See L-188 Electra
1252 See S-3
***
1266 See L-1011
1267 See L-1011
1268 See L-1011
***
1275 See H-51
1276 See S-3
1277 See S-3
1278 See S-3
1279 See S-3
1280 See S-3
1281 See S-3
1282 See S-3
1283 See S-3
1284 See S-3
1285 See S-3
1286 See S-3
***
1296 See L-1011
***
1302 See L-1011
***
1315 See L-1011



1319 See L-1011
1320 See L-1011
1321 See L-1011
1322 See L-1011
***
1327 See L-1011
***
1332 See L-1011
1333 See L-1011

1335 See L-1011
***
1501 See P-3
1502 See P-3
1503 See P-3
1504 See P-3
1505 See P-3
1506 See P-3
1507 See P-3
1508 See P-3
1509 See P-3
1510 See P-3

1512 See P-3
1513 See P-3
1514 See P-3
1515 See P-3
1516 See P-3
1517 See P-3

1519 See P-3
1520 See P-3
1521 See P-3
1522 See C-141
1523 See P-3
1524 See P-3


1527 See P-3
1528 See P-3
1529 See P-3
1530 See P-3
1531 See P-3
1532 See P-3
1533 See P-3
1534 See P-3
1535 See P-3

1537 See P-3
1538 See P-3
1539 See P-3
1540 See P-3
1541 See P-3
1542 See P-3
1543 See P-3
1544 See P-3
1545 See P-3
1546 See P-3
1547 See P-3
1548 See P-3
1549 See P-3
1550 See P-3
1551 See S-3
1552 See S-3
1553 See S-3
1554 See S-3
1555 See S-3
1556 See S-3
1557 See S-3
1558 See S-3
1559 See S-3
1560 See L-1011
***
1566 See P-3
1567 See P-3
1568 See P-3
1569 See P-3
1570 See P-3
1571 See P-3
***
1576 See P-3
1577 See P-3
1578 See P-3
1579 See P-3
***
1600 See F-104
***
1616 See S-3
***
1650 See S-3
1651 See S-3
1652 See S-3
1653 See S-3
1654 See S-3
1655 See S-3
1656 See S-3
1657 See S-3
1658 See S-3
1659 See S-3
1660 See S-3
1661 See S-3

1663 See S-3


1666 See S-3
1667 See S-3
1668 See S-3
1669 See S-3

1671 See S-3

1673 See S-3
1674 See S-3

1676 See S-3
***
1709 See S-3
1710 See H-51
***
1726 See P-3
***
1760 See S-3
1761 See S-3
1762 See S-3
1763 See S-3
***
1770 See S-3
1771 See S-3
1772 See S-3
1773 See S-3
1774 See S-3
1775 See S-3
1776 See S-3
1777 See S-3
1778 See S-3
1779 See S-3
1780 See S-3
1781 See S-3
1782 See S-3
1783 See S-3
***
1950 See S-3
1951 See S-3
1952 See S-3



1956 See S-3
***
1970 See S-3
***
1990 See S-3
1991 See S-3




1995 See S-3
1996 See S-3
1997 See S-3
1998 See S-3
1999 See S-3



GL / LG-Series

GL-Series
101 See Hercules
102 See Hercules


105 See Hercules
106 See Hercules
107 See Hercules
108 See Hercules
109 See Hercules
110 See Hercules
111 See Hercules
***
118 See Hercules
119 See Hercules
120 See Hercules
121 See Hercules
122 See Hercules
***
127 See Hercules
128 See Hercules
129 See Hercules

131 See Hercules
132 See Hercules
133 See Hercules
134 See Hercules


137 See Hercules
138 See Hercules


141 See Hercules
142 See Hercules

144 See Hercules
***
191 See Hercules
192 See Hercules
193 See Hercules
***
199 See Hercules

201 See Hercules


204 See XV-4
***
207 See Hercules
***
210 See Jetstar

212 See Hercules
***
217 See Hercules

219 See Hercules

221 See Hercules
222 See Hercules

224 See XV-4

226 See Hercules
***
230 See XV-4
231 See Hercules

233 See XV-4
234 See Hercules
235 See Hercules

237 See Hercules
***
250 See Hercules


253 See Hercules
***
257 See Hercules
***
262 See Hercules
263 See Hercules

265 See Hercules
266 See Hercules


269 See Hercules
270 See Hercules
271 See Hercules

273 See Hercules
274 See Hercules

276 See Hercules
277 See Hercules
278 See Hercules
279 See Hercules


282 See Hercules


285 See Hercules


288 See Hercules
***
293 See Hercules

295 See Hercules
296 See XV-4
297 See Hercules
298 See Hercules



302 See Hercules

304 See Hercules

306 See Hercules


309 See Hercules
310 See Hercules

312 See Hercules
313 See Hercules
***
319 See Hercules
320 See Hercules


323 See Hercules


326 See Hercules
327 See Hercules
328 See Hercules
329 See Jetstar
330 See Jetstar

332 See Hercules
***
337 See Hercules
338 See Hercules
339 See Hercules
340 See Hercules
341 See Hercules
342 See Hercules
343 See Hercules



347 See Hercules
348 See Hercules
349 See Jetstar
***
353 See Hercules
354 See Hercules
***
359 See Hercules
360 See Hercules

362 See Hercules

364 See XV-4

366 See Hercules



370 See Hercules
371 See Hercules


374 See Hercules
375 See Hercules
376 See Hercules
377 See Hercules
378 See Hercules
379 See Hercules
380 See XV-4
381 See Hercules
382 See Hercules
383 See Hercules
***
402 See Hercules



LGM-Series

008 See C-5
***
012 See Hercules
***
025 See Hercules




LGS-Series




LGX-Series

130 See XV-4
 

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,242
Reaction score
100
BRILLIANT! Hope you didn't type the whole thing, did you? (Ah well, why would I be the only guy to be nuts enough to do such things?!) LOL! Thanks anyway!
 

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,242
Reaction score
100
Comparing my data with the Putnam list, I have found quite a few missing CL-numbers:

L-129 high-altitude bomber project competing for Type Specification XC-124 against B-27, B-28
L-136 enlarged version of CONSTELLATION, project @1944
L-171 PTV-A-1 ramjet test vehicle (became X-7) [project MX-883]
L-182 projected ASW version of CONSTITUTION
L-185 pre-U-2 high-altitude project?
L-206 pre-HERCULES development of L-168 project with removable cargo pod (or YC-130??)
L-227 series of pre-STARFIGHTER projects
L-242 series of pre-STARFIGHTER projects (a "Model 242" was also an F-104 competing against F8U!)
CL-288 intermediate long-range high-speed interceptor project; F-104 with wing-mounted jets
CL-295 variants of study concept for tail-sitting twin-jet fighter with canards (mid-50s)
CL-303 pre-ELECTRA transport project with high wings
CL-320 intermediate long-range high-speed interceptor project
L-331 XV-4B HUMMINGBIRD VTOL research aircraft
CL-346 F-104 derivative with wing-mounted jets
L-402 LASA-60 small civil STOL transport (2 ex.,1959); license-built by Lockheed-Azcarate SA in Mexico
CL-407 series of seven concepts for supersonic (up to Mach 3) VTOL recon and attack aircraft
CL-635 numerous space study efforts done for NASA (1964)
CL-655 TSTO project
CL-704 VTOL STARFIGHTER derivative with single RB.168R and 14 vertical-mounted RB.181s
CL-840 AH-56A CHEYENNE assault helicopter for US Army (Model 187) (5 built) @1962
CL-915 lightweight fighter projects derived from A-12/F-12 series
CL-945 retractoplane design (helicopter with folding rotor blades) (CL-945-400)
CL-980 F-104S SUPER STARFIGHTER
L-1400 AX competitor of YA-9A and YA-10A (L-1400-1/-2)
CL-1400N LANCER lightweight fighter development proposed to US Navy
CL-1700 highly manoeuverable tactical ground attack helicopter project (mock-up existed)
CL-1980 projected twin-jet fighter for USAF derived from A-12/F-12 series for F-14 competition (A/N) 1973
 

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,242
Reaction score
100
Found a few more since compiling the above, plus a few inconsistencies here and there, for good measure... LOL

A now out-of-print publication entitled "Technology and Culture - Volume 43, Supplement" published in April 2002 by The Johns Hopkins University Press was of real interest for Lockheed lovers. "It examines the temporary design numbers of the now defunct Lockheed subsidiary, the Vega Airplane Co., and temporary designs of the Lockheed California Co."



Could anyone out here scan the article for us from a public library copy? That would be awesome!

Library references are as follows:
E-ISSN: 1097-3729 Print ISSN: 0040-165X
DOI: 10.1353/tech.1999.0055

Thanks!
 

Maveric

Fight for yor Right!
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
1,783
Reaction score
52
Hi Stargazer2006,

Crowood - Lockheed F-104 Starfighter listed CL.901 as F.104S. CL.1600 listed as X.27, but I have CL.1600 for a transport aircraft ???
Please take a look on the pic of the CL.1026, this is not a "Galaxy"-version!
 

Attachments

Maveric

Fight for yor Right!
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
1,783
Reaction score
52
...yes, I found the discussion about CL.901 and CL.980 ;)

But this link had a CL.351 as F.104-version, not the TR.1. http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,966.0/highlight,lockheed+cl-351.html

Servus Maveric
 

Maveric

Fight for yor Right!
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
1,783
Reaction score
52
...and for the CL.1090 (a "Galaxy"-version ??? ??? ???)

http://www.aeroknow.com/ADI/lockheed-ADI.htm
 

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,242
Reaction score
100
Thanks guys! As I said earlier on, there are a few inconsistencies that I want to address in these designations lists, and you pinpointed one: both the CL-1026 and -1090 appeared in one of my sources as respectively a "30-seat civil derivative of the AH-56" and a "90-seat civil helicopter" (which you've confirmed) and in the other source as a "projected civil version of GALAXY with 30 seats" and a "projected civil GALAXY with 80 (95?) seats, 36-ton capacity". Confusing isn't it? Yet the 36-ton GALAXY should have warned me: that's a bit light for such a big bird!

Other sources of doubt and/or confusion:

- L-149 appears in some sources for the CONSTELLATION, a probable confusion with the Model 149.
- L-151 appears on Andreas' website as the designation of the PTV-A-1 ramjet test vehicle (later X-7) while in fact it was L-171 (L-151 was an unbuilt airliner project)
- L-199 appears as the VG-STARFIRE and L-204 as a series of other STARFIRE-based designs while in another source they are inverted (I believe this is the correct one)
- L-206 sometimes appears as the YC-130 HERCULES while other sources give it as a pre-HERC design with removable cargo pod
- L-330 is given as a projected T2V variant while CL-330 is supposed to designate the VZ-10A (XV-4A) HUMMINGBIRD (L-331 being the XV-4B)
- CL-351 is either given as a STARFIGHTER-related project or as the U-2R (TR-1) DRAGON LADY
- CL-800 is either given as a variant of the ELECTRA or a four-jet transport based on the STARLINER
CL-900 is either given as an ORION-related project or an early LANCER project
- L-1400 is found either as an AX competitor of the YA-9A and YA-10A attack aircraft or as a variant of the LANCER

While it seems to be established that both Lockheed AND its Vega division had Temporary Design Numbers AND Model Numbers of their own, major confusion exists when the various sources refer to the VENTURA/HARPOON variants. Models 15, 21, 23, 37, 43 and even 56 are found... but most sources get mixed up between Lockheed and Vega models:
- The HARPOON was apparently both the Vega Model 15 AND the Lockheed Model 43.
- The VENTURA was apparently both the Vega Models 21 and 23 (B-34 versions), but also the Vega Model 37 (PV-1) OR the Lockheed Model 37 (although a confusion with the B-37 military version is also possible).
- The Model 56 seems definitely like a confusion with the O-56 designation, which refered to what became the B-37 (later RB-34B).
- The Vega V-125 (Vega Model 35) was the former North American NA-35 trainer... but it is also given by several sources as the Lockheed Model 35!
- The Vega-built Boeing B-17E production appears as the Model 17, but for some it was a Vega designation, while for others it was a Lockheed one!
- Even the NEPTUNE is complicated, being refered to as the Lockheed Model 26 while it was Vega's V-146 design!
- The Vega-designed aerial targets are found as both the Vega Models 40 to 42, or the Lockheed Models 40 to 42!

On the postwar side, I have trouble with the AerMacchi/Lockheed L-402 CONESTOGA, which is also designated as the LASA-60. Some sources describe this as the Model 60, while for others the Model 60 was a proposed twin-engine trainer. Also Models 73 and 79 sometimes appear as variants of the NEPTUNE, while other sources claim these designations were reserved for Lockheed-Georgia... Same for the L-146 SATURN, which was both the Models 75 and 77 (according to Jay Miller's Skunk Works book) while "77" is said elsewhere to have been reserved for Lockheed-Georgia...

On top of all this, Lockheed apparently re-used some of its unused Model Numbers, as they did with Model 90, which was initially allocated to the L-130 long-range bomber proposal, then was reassigned to the XF-90 interceptor (an easy way to memorize it, the way that Model 80 applied to the XP-80).

Of course, any help, ideas, comments, hints, and so forth are encouraged!!!
 

nugo

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Feb 2, 2006
Messages
337
Reaction score
2
Hi All!

L-104---"This TDN was one of the first of the iterations that were to became the world famous Model 49 Constellation series aircraft. In particular, L-104 was later assigned as Model 049-47-02, a Conniederivative that was never built."...
L-105---"This TDN later became the Model 44 Excalibur."...
L-112---"This TDN was a modification of the L-105 concerning the Model 44 Excalibur proposal."...
L-113---"Same intent as the L-112 with only internal furnishing changes."...
L-115---"Assigned for design of a single engine (Menasco or Ranger) basic trainer, tandem or side-by-side cockpit. Sometime during the study it was transferred to Vega with final disposition unknown".
L-118---"Later assigned a Model 52 designation, the L-118 was to be a single-place pursuit."...
L-120---"Assigned to a four- to eight-place transport design study; discontinued in its early stages".
L-127---"Cancelled".
L-130---"This was another "mis-designation" aircraft as it was also called the Model 90, even though it never reached the hardware stage. Another Lockheed Model 90 did-the XF-90 penetration fighter, of which two prototypes were built. Also, Vega used the Model 90 designation for one of their bomber design studies. Here, the L-130 applied to a 1941 Lockheed study of a long-range bombardment aircraft."...
L-131---"This 1941 design shows obvious P-38 series influence. In fact, initial weight estimates were
based on the structure and equipment used in the XP-49 and one of the power plants considered for the XP-58. The L-131 was to be a two-place single Tornado engine powered pursuit aircraft."...
L-132---"The original L-132 design study was completed in February 1942, just after the United States entered World War II. The study was done to obtain a commercial transport aircraft design capable of meeting the (then) current Civil Air Regulation safety requirements of Bulletin 56 amendments. A lot of the Model 49 Constellation series is evident in the various L-132 designs."...
Two- or four-engene transport proposal.

TDN---Temporary Design Numbers.

Source: Journal, American Aviation Historical Society, Spring 1999; "The Lockheed That Never Were", Part I, by Bill Slayton, page: 65-73.

To be continued...
 

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,242
Reaction score
100
Nugo, this is just FABULOUS!

Do you have a complete list of ALL L-/CL- designs in your archives? Wow!

For your future contributions, may I suggest L-135, L-138, L-139, L-142 to L-144, L-148, L-158, L-160, L-161, L-164, L-166, L-173 and L-180?

Thanks again!
 

Skybolt

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
2,297
Reaction score
34
Nugo (hi Nugo !) has simply at hand the five articles Bill Slayton published in AAHS Journal a few years ago....
Anyway:
L-135, not used (really)
L-138, five place private aircraft
L-139, twin Wasp Majors "version" of Constellation
L-142, twin engine transport. -4 was a canard
L-143, not used
L-144, twin engine transport
L-148, four engine transport with engines paired in two nacelles
L-158, transport aircraft, different iterations, -1 to -5 four turnboprops, -6 six jets, similar to Connie
L-160, light sport arcraft
L-161, flying car
L-164, first an executive propeller transport, then a twin-jet larger executive
L-166, twin engine transport (one of the long series of "DC-3 replacement")
L-173, MX-948 submission (B-47 substitute), lost to Boeing's XB-55
L-180, OS-112 submission, four-place Navy's escort fighter.

BTW, in a previous post, when you see "see something" it should be intended as "related to something", a derivative, version, even long-shot inspiration.
 

Skybolt

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
2,297
Reaction score
34
CL-1026, interurban transport derivative of the AH-56
CL-1090, it was an interurban (point-to-point, not feeder) compound helicopter transport

The Galaxy was Georgia-Lockheed realm.

CL-1600: Mav, the reaon is that CL-1600 was used twice, both for the X.27 and for the Tristar Twin project. Lockheed did the same a few other times.
 

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,242
Reaction score
100
Thank you Skybolt! It's just great!

Are these AAHS articles very long? Do you think you could possibly get them (or at least the lists) scanned little by little? Or maybe Nugo if he has the whole set too?
 

Skybolt

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
2,297
Reaction score
34
Rather long, thirty pages in all.
 

Skybolt

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
2,297
Reaction score
34
Cl-1235 to 1237 were larger tanker/COD derivatives of the S-3A.
 

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,242
Reaction score
100
Ah well... I can only dream of a PDF file of this... :'(
The four issues are probably extremely difficult to find. Maybe one day... Thanks anyway.
 

Skybolt

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
2,297
Reaction score
34
Five issues. Some are rather easy, some are out of stock.
 

nugo

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Feb 2, 2006
Messages
337
Reaction score
2
Hi All!

L-137---twin engine bombardment airplane proposal
L-145---commercial transport proposal, DC-3 replacements
L-147---small commercial transport proposals
L-152---medium size turboprop or turbojet commercial transport proposals
L-153---XP/F-90
L-155---commercial jet-engined transport proposals
L-179---jet-engined commercial transport proposals
L-183---USN Specification OS-113 (became XF3H-1), interceptor fighter proposals
L-185---commmercial transport proposals, "DC-3 replacement"
L-186---jet-engined commercial transport proposals
L-187---USN Specification OS-111 (became XA3D-1), long-range carrier-based bomber proposals
L-188---several projected modifications of the F-97 nee F-94C fighter
L-189---"A specific aircraft was not designed in this preliminary study for ONR. It was a generalized data generation program for carrier based ASW aircraft to be operational in 1956."...
L-190---USAF interceptor proposals
L-191---"It was a strategic turbojet engine bomber system; a system called "team bombing." Team bombing was to be use of two aircraft-one was to be a manned guide aircraft and the other a remotely controlled bomb carrier that would fly only to the target and then be expendable."...
L-192---USN Specification OS-117 (became XS2F-1), anti-submarine warfare airplane proposals
L-195---nuclear engine powered aircraft proposals
L-197---ASW helicopter proposals
L-200---XFV-1
L-201---commercial transport airplane proposals, DC-3 replacement
L-202---day fighter proposals
L-203---liason aircraft proposals, request of AMC. Tail seater...
L-207---commercial transport proposals, DC-3 reolacement
L-208---XC-Heavy Transport and Parasite/Missile carrier airplane proposals, request of AMC
L-209---parasite bomber airplane proposals
L-210---ground attack fighter proposals
L-212---nuclear engine powered aircraft proposals.

Source: Journal, American Aviation Historical Society, 1999, Summer: page 102-112, Winter: page 288-297. 2000, Spring: page 53-63

I have only copy and I do not have a scanner.
 

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,242
Reaction score
100
This is WONDERFUL! Now we have a complete list ranging from L-100 to L-212!

Any idea when the CL- prefix replaced plain L-? Earliest occurrence I have is CL-257, a cancelled early warning aircraft designated Model 84 or W2V-1 and later cancelled (some sources call this WARNING STAR, like the later EC-121).

I also have the L-193 pre-JETSTAR project that sometimes appears as a "CL-193" but that doesn't seem to fit in the timeline.
 
Top