Lockheed & Grumman Multiple Purpose Subsonic Naval Aircraft (MPSNA) studies (1986)

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NASA CR 175096
Multiple-Purpose Subsonic Naval Aircraft (MPSNA) Multiple Application Propfan Study (MAPS)
D.M. Winkeljohn, C.H. Mayrand
LOCKHEED-GEORGIA COMPANY
A Division of Lockheed Corporation
Marietta, Georgia

NASA CR-179452
MULTIPLE PURPOSE SUBSONIC NAVAL AIRCRAFT (MPSNA) MULTIPLE APPLICATION PROPFAN STUDY (MAPS)
by
N.F. Dannenhoffer, J.S. Herzberg, J.R. Kretzing,
J.R Landfleld, C.L. Mahoney, R.A. Mahoney, H.C. Potonides
GRUMMAN AEROSPACE CORPORATION

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Lockheed propfan version studies shown in attachment
 

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  • MPSNA propfan category 1 COD derivative.jpg
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  • MPSNA propfan category 2 baseline.jpg
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Re: Lockheed&Grumman Multiple Purpose Subsonic Naval Aircraft (MPSNA) studies

Lockheed turbofan versions studies shown
 

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  • MPSNA turbofan category 1a.jpg
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Re: Lockheed&Grumman Multiple Purpose Subsonic Naval Aircraft (MPSNA) studies

Lockheed STOVL versions shown
 

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Re: Lockheed&Grumman Multiple Purpose Subsonic Naval Aircraft (MPSNA) studies

Grumman MR1 configuration
 

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  • MPSNA MR1 crew station.jpg
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Grumman MR1 propfan and turbofan configurations
 

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Grumman MR2 propfan and turbofan confoigurations
 

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  • MPSNA MR2 turbofan-s.jpg
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Grumman VSTOL MPSNA configuration
 

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Fascinating stuff flateric,

It would have been interesting to see something like these operating off carriers, maybe the Super Hornet wouldn't have needed to be a tanker. I wonder if the Army would have been interested in a land based version for their electronic warfare needs?

Any idea whose Common Support Aircraft concept this is?
 

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The VSTOL MPSNA is an interesting design but I have to wonder at how much downwash/outwash those relatively small prop-rotors would have generated. Considering the V-22 creates hurricane force winds that are at the edge of acceptability for operations in and around the aircraft, this one would have been tough. Of course if it was only intended to operate from prepared surfaces that might not have been an issue.
 
yasotay said:
The VSTOL MPSNA is an interesting design but I have to wonder at how much downwash/outwash those relatively small prop-rotors would have generated. Considering the V-22 creates hurricane force winds that are at the edge of acceptability for operations in and around the aircraft, this one would have been tough. Of course if it was only intended to operate from prepared surfaces that might not have been an issue.

I've been wondering about that. Do you think a Fairy Rotodyne like aircraft would have been a better idea than the V-22 because of downwash and noise considerations?
 
Rotodyne was extremely loud due to the rotor tip jets. Having seen/heard a V-22 doing its thing, it is whisper quiet in comparison.

HTH! Mark
 
AFAIK, there were attempts to quiten the tipjets, but these didn't come to fruition,
at least not for the Rotodyne. But IF there would have been a series version, it would
have been considerably quiter, I think.
 
"The one great criticism of the Rotodyne was the noise the tip jets made, however, the jets were only run at full power for a matter of minutes during departure and landing and indeed, the test pilot Ron Gelattly made two flights over central London, and several landings and departures at Battersea Heliport with no complaints being registered. There was also a noise-reduction program in process which had managed to get the noise level down to the desired level of 96 dB from 600 feet (180 m) away, less than the noise made by a London Underground train, and at the time of cancellation, silencers were in the pipeline which would have reduced the noise even further. In the end though it was funding and not noise that killed the Rotodyne."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairey_Rotodyne

I'm not sure, but the pictures of silencers tested on the Rotodyne were published in Derek Wood's Project Cancelled.
 

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Mark Nankivil said:
Rotodyne was extremely loud due to the rotor tip jets. Having seen/heard a V-22 doing its thing, it is whisper quiet in comparison.

HTH! Mark

"Extremely loud"? 96 dB at 180 feet isn't that loud, really. I wonder, how loud is the V-22? How big is the downwash compared to the Rotodyne's?
 
96 dB at 180 feet was the noise level, that should be achieve with the silencers
and other measures. Before this, I think, it was a little bit louder ! ;)
 
Jemiba said:
96 dB at 180 feet was the noise level, that should be achieve with the silencers
and other measures. Before this, I think, it was a little bit louder ! ;)

True. However, we should be discussing where the development of the Rotodyne was going, rather than where it had been, if we're comparing it to the V-22.
 
I think it was a McDonnell Douglas proposal from the mid-90's or earlier.

SteveO said:
Fascinating stuff flateric,

It would have been interesting to see something like these operating off carriers, maybe the Super Hornet wouldn't have needed to be a tanker. I wonder if the Army would have been interested in a land based version for their electronic warfare needs?

Any idea whose Common Support Aircraft concept this is?
 
Re: Lockheed&Grumman Multiple Purpose Subsonic Naval Aircraft (MPSNA) studies (1

Regarding the Grumman VSTOL design, did a portion of the wing rotate with the rotors? If not, it would seem like much of the downwash would be blocked by the wings.
 
yasotay said:
The VSTOL MPSNA is an interesting design but I have to wonder at how much downwash/outwash those relatively small prop-rotors would have generated. Considering the V-22 creates hurricane force winds that are at the edge of acceptability for operations in and around the aircraft, this one would have been tough. Of course if it was only intended to operate from prepared surfaces that might not have been an issue.
The Lockheed MPSNA STOVL design was required to operate only from prepared surfaces, unlike the V-22. The downwash effects were substantially less than the Harrier, and in particular, were much cooler.
 
Artist's impression of Lockheed Multiple-Purpose Subsonic Naval Aircraft (MPSNA) pusher propfan concept.

Three-view drawing of Boeing Multiple-Purpose Subsonic Naval Aircraft (MPSNA) tanker concept.

Three-view drawing of Lockheed Multiple-Purpose Subsonic Naval Aircraft (MPSNA) airborne early warning concept.

Three-view drawing of Grumman Multiple-Purpose Subsonic Naval Aircraft (MPSNA) carrier on-board delivery concept.

Source:
Hager, Roy D.; Vrabel, Deborah. Advanced Turbofan Project, NASA Glenn Research Center, Jan. 1, 1988
 

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  • GrummanMPSNAdelivery.jpg
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Is the MPX on the tail of the Lockheed artist's impression important? Multi-Purpose eXperimental?

167837
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I can not but help think, that with the buildup of the PLAN's submarine force (both nuclear & diesel electric), combined with the USN's premature retirement (neglect) of the S-3 Viking. The USN might have to re-instate just such a program!

Regards
Pioneer
 
Pioneer said:
I can not but help think, that with the buildup of the PLAN's submarine force (both nuclear & diesel electric), combined with the USN's premature retirement (neglect) of the S-2 Viking.

That's S-3 Viking of course...
 
Stargazer2006 said:
Pioneer said:
I can not but help think, that with the buildup of the PLAN's submarine force (both nuclear & diesel electric), combined with the USN's premature retirement (neglect) of the S-2 Viking.

That's S-3 Viking of course...

Yeah thanks Stargazer2006! ..................... a case of the fingers faster than the brain on that one!! :eek:

Regards
Pioneer
 
Looks like the main gear would be near the same plane as the prop discs - would doubt that is much of an issue.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 
Hi Paul


Thank you for the PDF. That is a very clear scan.


I'm used to seeing some of the (older?) V/STOL articles where the print is bad and the drawings almost invisible. (Think bad multi-generation Xerox) Have they changed technology? Any chance that they are going to go back to rescan some of the papers from the 1960s and 1970s?


Thanks.
 
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