JTV1 on eBay (Bloodhound progenitor)

Zoo Tycoon

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
27 May 2008
Messages
1,045
Reaction score
2,009
Oh Wow, an incredibly rare JTV1 not only survived but is for sale on eBay. This was the ramjet powered first tentative step toward Bloodhound.


A thing of beauty but alas way beyond my budget.
 
Oh Wow, an incredibly rare JTV1 not only survived but is for sale on eBay. This was the ramjet powered first tentative step toward Bloodhound.


A thing of beauty but alas way beyond my budget.
£250 in 2016:
I am selling a very large (approx 20' long when assembled) twin ramjet (6" dia. jets) test vehicle known as the J.T.V.1. It was stored outside for many years, now been undercover for ten years and in need of restoration to its former glory. It is stored near Burgess Hill, Sussex and I need the space, so I am offering it here for £250-, collection only. I have a few photos of when it was first collected (don't know how to attach them here, but happy to email them).
The JTV1 was devised in 1948 to enable checks to be made in flight of the results of ramjet bench testing and to serve as a preliminary exercise for a ramjet propelled guided weapon and was developed by the Bristol Aeroplane Co. Operating height was 40,000 feet and speed Mach 1.8.

Pics from the ebay listing:
JTV1-8.jpg JTV1-7.jpg JTV1-6.jpg JTV1-5.jpg JTV1-4.jpg JTV1-3.jpg JTV1-2.jpg JTV1-1.jpg
 
Last edited:
The ramjets on it were done in collaboration with Boeing who developed their ramjet engine for the GAPA missile program. Bristol partnered with them as they had no experience on their own with ramjets at the time.
 
..and Marquardt later on:
RAMJET RAMIFICATIONS. ‘Hands across the sea’ was the order of the day for Bristol Siddeley Engines Ltd. when they announced recently that they had signed a format agreement for the exchange of information relating to advanced propulsion systems with the Marquardt Corporation of America. The agreement has the blessings of the governments of both the United States and the United Kingdom. Initially, at least, collaboration will be limited to an exchange of technical knowledge concerning supersonic and hypersonic ramjets, and their subsystems and components. Bristol Siddeley are currently producing the ThorBT.1 ramjet—incidentally the first ramjet power unit to go into production in Europe—for the Bloodhound surface‐to‐air guided missile, as welt as carrying out work on a number of other projects including the BSRJ‐824 ramjet for long‐range operations at high altitudes.
(1964), "Ear‐to‐ground", Aircraft Engineering and Aerospace Technology, Vol. 36 No. 2, pp. 51-51. https://doi.org/10.1108/eb033838

edit: thank you for the pointer: found this (Bristol Early work on ramjets and Bloodhound Mk1 starts pg. 9)
 
Last edited:
A bit off-topic however has the Sea Dart's Odin ramjet design been declassified?
 
..and Marquardt later on:
RAMJET RAMIFICATIONS. ‘Hands across the sea’ was the order of the day for Bristol Siddeley Engines Ltd. when they announced recently that they had signed a format agreement for the exchange of information relating to advanced propulsion systems with the Marquardt Corporation of America. The agreement has the blessings of the governments of both the United States and the United Kingdom. Initially, at least, collaboration will be limited to an exchange of technical knowledge concerning supersonic and hypersonic ramjets, and their subsystems and components. Bristol Siddeley are currently producing the ThorBT.1 ramjet—incidentally the first ramjet power unit to go into production in Europe—for the Bloodhound surface‐to‐air guided missile, as welt as carrying out work on a number of other projects including the BSRJ‐824 ramjet for long‐range operations at high altitudes.
(1964), "Ear‐to‐ground", Aircraft Engineering and Aerospace Technology, Vol. 36 No. 2, pp. 51-51. https://doi.org/10.1108/eb033838

edit: thank you for the pointer: found this (Bristol Early work on ramjets and Bloodhound Mk1 starts pg. 9)
Bristol started with Marquardt, but pretty quickly realized the company wasn't a good fit for them. They turned to Boeing who was collaborating with the US Navy's project Bumblebee to get ramjet technology going. Boeing was doing the MX 606 GAPA surface-to-air missile at the time. There were also conferences between the British and US on these projects starting about 1951 to share technical data and knowledge.
 
It's a lot more interesting than that. Issue 44 of The Aviation Historian has an article on the Bloodhound and the evolution of its ramjets is covered.

The article also has what I consider the best illustrations of the Bloodhound MK. 2 seen to date.

Chris

PS as an explainer to the hard of thinking and in response to all the crap that went down on this very forum last year about an atricle in TAH - it's a magazine article written by me in a magazine called The Aviation Historian which is a subscription only magazine.
 
Quite a few of our British SPF cohort write articles for TAH, Chris, Schneiderman, Steelpillow and myself, there may be other members too who have appeared (not always easy to match a nom de plume to a name).

I'd say its one of the best journals on aviation history out there. The breadth is always good - from 19th century pipedreams, failed experimentalists, all the way to 1980s with some projects, a mix of civil and military and a true international flavour - everywhere is covered from Latin America, the Baltics, Australia & NZ, Asia and Africa.
 
The ramjets on it were done in collaboration with Boeing who developed their ramjet engine for the GAPA missile program. Bristol partnered with them as they had no experience on their own with ramjets at the time.

Whilst it true Bristol’s partnered Boeing on ramjet development, I don’t believe JVT ramjets were “done in collaboration with Boeing”. A big fraction of JVT’s flight work including the first flight at Mach 2, July 51 was done prior to this agreement.
 
The ramjets on it were done in collaboration with Boeing who developed their ramjet engine for the GAPA missile program. Bristol partnered with them as they had no experience on their own with ramjets at the time.

Whilst it true Bristol’s partnered Boeing on ramjet development, I don’t believe JVT ramjets were “done in collaboration with Boeing”. A big fraction of JVT’s flight work including the first flight at Mach 2, July 51 was done prior to this agreement.

from the link from my post above it does appear this collaboration was specifically for JVT development in early '51 as @T. A. Gardner had said :

Whereas all missile project studies in the UK had so far been limited to ramjets no larger than 10" diameter, which meant that 4 engines were required for sufficient performance, it was now possible to consider much more practical two-engine layouts. By the end of 1950 the twin-engine concept was hardening, with requirements for ramjets of between 14" and 16" diameter. Project work done on test-bed air supplies and rigs confirmed that this size of engine could be accommodated at Bristol. To gain advantage from the practical experience available in the USA, a technical exchange agreement was negotiated with the Boeing Airplane Company of Seattle who had been assessing similar ramjets in missile definition work for the US Army. This definition programme had achieved a significant number of successful flights with ramjets of the required size, so the UK objective of getting confidence in the potential capability of large ramjets was met.

Arrangements were completed for a four-man team led by Nedham to visit Boeing in late January 1951. Early in that month Hooker decided that RRJ should join this team, and a highly successful period of some seven weeks was spent completing the project design of a 16" flight engine and detailing an ‘Iron Horse’ rig version of the engine. This latter was manufactured and sent to Seattle for testing in May. RRJ and Nedham went on to visit Marquardt, who were building on their work for the larger and higher Mach-number ramjets for the long range, surface-to-air Bomarc missile. They also called at the Applied Physics Laboratory of Johns Hopkins University in Washington to see the Project Managers of Talos, a surface-to-air missile with a single ramjet integrated into the main body.

Return to Bristol was not until April and, in May, RRJ was appointed in charge of ramjets, bringing with him from the company research department key people on supersonics and combustion. Nedham stayed on as his deputy and remained in charge of ramjet development.

The work on the combustor and fuel control for the RAE ramjet test vehicle programme, the JTV (Jet Test Vehicle), was of great help in building up all aspects of the ramjet team, including flight preparation and analysis. A number of problems of light-up and combustion stability in sustained flight were dealt with, leading to a first successful ramjet-powered supersonic flight in July 1951. The JTV programme was completed in mid 1952.​
 
JTV1 Mk VII, Strakes on the Ramjets are the giveaway. Ramjet on JTV1 was based on an RAE design with input from work done at NACA in the USA. RAE handed the project over to NGTE at the end of 1951. Bristol wanted out of the JTV1 project in June 1952 as it was doing nothing on the development of the XTV4 ramjets for Red Duster and NGTE dropped it in the middle of 1952.
 
Last edited:
Bristol started with Marquardt, but pretty quickly realized the company wasn't a good fit for them. They turned to Boeing who was collaborating with the US Navy's project Bumblebee to get ramjet technology going. Boeing was doing the MX 606 GAPA surface-to-air missile at the time. There were also conferences between the British and US on these projects starting about 1951 to share technical data and knowledge.
Team from Bristol (Hooker / Farrar) and RAE/MOS (Smith / Dunning) visited the USA between 25th Sep - 17th Oct 1950. They visited 8 different locations involved with Ramjet Development in the USA. Four involved with the US Navy Project (John Hopkins APL and OAL, Bendix and Convair). NACA. Marquardt. plus two involved with the USAF GAPA project (Wright Patterson AFB and Boeing), GAPA being a USAAF project when it started. The Report the team wrote to the MOS, picked out various design features of the US Work that they liked and could well fit into a British Ramjet powered weapon. The big one was to increase the boost motor burnout speed from just over Mach 1 to just below Mach 2. The program that impressed the team the most was GAPA. Bristol did plan to send teams to Bendix, Marquardt and Boeing to get more insight in the techniques they wanted to use.
 
Where were the JTV 1’s built?

I had always assumed they were built at the Bristol Aircraft Company as a result of a Government/RAE contract awarded in 1949, ( the contract that the Guided weapons sub business was founded to preform…. Ie the “49’ers” as the small handpicked team was known ) but now I’m not so sure.

When I did my stint with the Sea Dart propulsion team, although retired, two, maybe three 49’ers showed up and were revered, oh what I now wished I could have asked them.
 
Last edited:
Where were the JTV 1’s built?

I had always assumed they were built at the Bristol Aircraft Company as a result of a Government/RAE contract awarded in 1949, ( the contract that the Guided weapons sub business was founded to preform…. Ie the “49’ers” as the small handpicked team was known ) but now I’m not so sure.
From the above linked RRJ biog. :
The RAE also had a project design for a twin 6" ramjet test vehicle, so the first contract received by Bristol in the late summer of 1949 was to complete the design, make the vehicle and test it in conjunction with the RAE.
Also from this BMPG document from Bristol's David Farrar OBE :
The JTV-1 was a Farnborough designed test vehicle for 6'' ramjets which we made. It would never have worked. We redesigned it and it did.
 
Last edited:
Airframes at some point were Sub-contracted out to EMI Treorchy in South Wales. They had 20 in the process of being built when the programme was cancelled in mid 1952. Main issue was NGTE wanted to fit the thing with 7 inch Ramjets as they concidered the 6 Inch ramjet powered vehicle not to have a good enough thrust / weight / drag ratio to actually get any useful data out of. They couldn't do it with their own resources and Bristol were totally unwilling to do it for them due to the efforts they were doing to get XTV4 hot rounds to work. Engines were built at Patchway and the rounds were assembled at Filton. When the project was canned, NTGE had wanted to finish flight trials of the Hobson Fuel Control block with the 5 rounds they had, plus 5 from the remaining twenty under construction. The early cut off point in the BAC / EMI contract was 12 rounds, so NGTE got those 12 rounds.

Source TNA AVIA 54-1226 Red Duster Propulsion 1949-53
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom