Is a modern Flower class corvette even realistic?

timmymagic said:
Yep £50m is the cost for Sonar 2087 i.e. CAPTAS 4 + Ultra passive TA.
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Okay, so 70mil USD for the really high end ASW towed-array sonars, plural, to fit to your high-end ASW ships (and I'm guessing another ~70mil for hull arrays, one shallow-water optimized and one mine-searching sonar).

Not sure you'd want CAPTAS 4 on a USV, but CAPTAS 1 or 2 would be about right.
 
Oh, I almost forgot. There is a batch time too. You have about 45 minutes to paint with what you've mixed up before the paint starts to set up in the bucket or whatever you mixed it in. After that just wait for it to fully harden and you can toss the now dry paint with the mixing bucket (liquids are a no-no with the EPA but solidified paint is not).

If you go longer than about 45 minutes applying it, it doesn't fully stick to whatever you're painting it on and can more easily peel off during use.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Okay, so 70mil USD for the really high end ASW towed-array sonars, plural
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You keep saying ASW ships need two arrays deployed simultaneously, can you point me at one that does?
 
Scott Kenny said:
Okay, so 70mil USD for the really high end ASW towed-array sonars, plural, to fit to your high-end ASW ships (and I'm guessing another ~70mil for hull arrays, one shallow-water optimized and one mine-searching sonar).
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The entire ASW suite of a DDG-51 Flt III is ~$60M (MFTA + hull sonar). An FFG-62’s ASW suite is ~$30M (Captas 4 VDS).
 
DWG said:
You keep saying ASW ships need two arrays deployed simultaneously, can you point me at one that does?
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It needs either two towed arrays or VDS plus hull array.

Mogami has a pair of towed arrays.
Type 26 has VDS plus hull array.
 
Stellerfella said:
The batch 2s had already been locked in. This was a submission for type 31. Who knows, they may build a few of these after the batch 1s leave service. But they'll probably just wait for NGPV
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You're right it was an early submission for T31, that rapidly got supplanted by the GPF that took a lot of the Khareef Class lineage. BAE stopped talking about it very quickly, always suspected it was from earlier than that though.
 
DWG said:
You keep saying ASW ships need two arrays deployed simultaneously, can you point me at one that does?
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It's actually three simultaneous tows, if you're serious about it:
  • Active VDS 'fish' emitter
  • Passive long-line receiver
  • Towed torpedo decoy
CAPTAS-4/Sonar 2087 works that way, as does OQQ-25. The Constellation-class will use the CAPTAS-4 active element with a TB-37 receiver, presumably because someone in the USN fancied repeating the systems integration work.

The towed decoy is technically unrelated, but probably wise: the submarine you're hunting is likely to start hunting you back. Active hull sonar fills a different niche to the VDS.
 
timmymagic said:
You're right it was an early submission for T31, that rapidly got supplanted by the GPF that took a lot of the Khareef Class lineage. BAE stopped talking about it very quickly, always suspected it was from earlier than that though.
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BAE were doing a lot of different submissions for programs around this time
 
I think some people mistaking something here.
The original Flower class was a single that did all the things but today we are transitioning to a system of sytems within a kill web of systems. Since we more or less envision our hunting party to be specialized and low (cost) level the specs don't have to be fullsized warship. ASW dedicated ships are still needed ofc but in this case they would be on standby somewhere to either provide effector weapons or to reinforce in case the situation has become a large scale battle.
As I envisioned we have a mannable USV barge or manned mothership. I want to keep it steathy, hence using special ASW USV like the Netherland 12m boat for hunting. Another barge with the effector weapons would be nice to keep stealth up for the manned ship. In this case the manned mothership will have defensive weapons only.
The ASW USV will have dipped sonar. The barges will have SURTASS with the noisy unmanned one having the LFA (Low Frequency Active) sonar part. There's no need for towed arrays or expensive hull sonar, though, towed decoy and probably VDS is needed for mine clearing and litoral coast lines.
Also this requires longrange ASROC like min. 35 nm=50 km for the barges and 4-600 km Sea Lance/SMART (india) for the ASW warship.
 
Stellerfella said:
You don't need two towed arrays. Mogami doesn't have two towed arrays. It's one in the same
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Yes, it does. It's got a VDS and a conventional tail combined into the OQQ-25 system.


DWG said:
That's a beast of a very different colour from what you've been insisting on.
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Not really.

You need a sensor above the ~250ft thermocline and you need a sensor below that thermocline. That is what is important. The nature of those two sensors is less important than their locations in the water column.
 
DWG said:
I'd count that as one system, not two.
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I'm understanding it as two separate sonars combined into a single control box.



DWG said:
It is if everyone was presuming you meant two tails and hull sonar as well.
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I've always said either two tails or tail+hull sonar for a minimally-competent USV or frigate. Two tails and at least one hull sonar for a more-competent option, like an ASW DD.

In any case, the hull sonar should be optimized for littoral/shallow water operations, while the tails are for deep water. The ASW DD I'd strongly consider giving a second hull sonar, but this second one would be an HF mine-hunting set.
 
I remember one of the big changes they made to the Constellation-class was because the FREMM hull just didn't cut it for the Navy's survivability standards. And honestly, politically speaking, I don't see a cheap, flimsy ship like that going over well unless it's unmanned.
 
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