Iranian Qaher-313 "indigenous fighter jet"

[Reaper]

Guys, I think at some point somebody has to move it to "the Bar". I mean its great fun, but also ridiculous!

 

[Johnbr]

From the BBC.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21310958

 

[JFC Fuller]

This is exactly correct. The maximum never-exceed speed on the instrument in the cockpit is 270. Assuming Knots (best case), that's 500km/h. Stall speed is 70kts. Its clearly taken off a turboprop trainer or something.

I would add, the three displays with the grey buttons look like the Dynon Avionics EFIS-D series. In fact if you zoom in on the cockpit photo you can just makes out what looks like branding text, though illegible, just above the screens that has been painted over in black.

http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/EFIS_intro.html

Just above the main EFIS is what looks like a Garmin SL-30 Nav/Comm: http://sarasotaavionics.com/avionics/sl_30

Also present seems to be;

Garmin GMA 340 audio panel: https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=199&pID=93

Trutrak Sorcerer Autopilot: http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/products/Sorcerer.html

Dynon HS34 Horizontal HSI expansion module: http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/HS34_intro.html

Garmin GTX-327 Transponder: https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=124

In short, a collection of commercially available light aircraft avionics.

 

[Spook]

Guyz please.... There is no presence of the Actual Jet ... he one is just a mock-up and there were two RCS models which were built one with turboprop and the second one with Jet engine ..

 

[blackstar]

I added some labels to show that this is a mockup. A few people have posted similar images earlier in the thread.

 

[Kryptid]

One thing I don't understand is why the build quality is so poor. Is the Iranian military budget really so small that they can't afford to create a competent-looking mock-up? The models in the movie "Stealth" looked better. Sure, the civilians in the country might be easier to convince as a whole, but wouldn't it be more important to deceive your enemies into thinking that you have an advanced weapon system instead of a population that is already under your control?

When I first laid eyes on the design, I was intrigued and perhaps even a bit excited. Now that all of the physical flaws have been pointed out and analyzed, I feel disappointed (though perhaps I shouldn't be).

 

[XP67_Moonbat]

Wow! So SyFy's shooting their next crapfest B-movie in Iran, huh?

 

[Mat Parry]

One thing I don't understand is why the build quality is so poor.

the simplest hypothesis is that it was made in a very short space of time. I.e. this is a rushed job and was only completed (to it's current standard) immediately before its unveiling. Of course this is pure speculation

 

[blackstar]

One thing I don't understand is why the build quality is so poor. Is the Iranian military budget really so small that they can't afford to create a competent-looking mock-up?

Something that always puzzled me about propaganda was why it was often so bad. Often you only need a little bit of common sense to see through it. But then I realized that there are lots of people who lack common sense. There are a lot of people who are gullible and/or stupid. 99% of the people looking at that airplane... shape are not going to know a thing about airplanes, and so they are not going to see things like the thin walled construction of the cockpit. It has wings, the leaders say it flies, so everything is great.

Why do you think they photoshopped the rocket launch and added in more rockets? At least some people fell for it, and more people saw the original photo than saw the posts where people pointed out that it was fake.

You want to see something amusing/sobering? Look at what these Iranian military fanboys (I think most of them are ex-pats living in the West) say about it:

http://www.iranmilitaryforum.net/air-forces/%27ghaher-313%27-newest-iranian-fighter-aircraft-will-be-unveiled-tomorrow/700/

Start from nearly the beginning. Many of them post how they are fainting with excitement, how they are sure that this is the greatest airplane ever built, unlike that horrible F-22. It looks so cool, so it must be incredible. And the leadership would not lie.

(They start to sober up by the later posts. And then some of them start praising the mockup and the RC plane as clever disinformation that will keep their enemies guessing!)

 

[TaiidanTomcat]

I personally think Iran should be applauded for finding a way to avoid wasting billions of dollars that Iran can't really afford.

I wonder how much they wasted on this mock up? It probably employed tens of people for a couple weeks, so there's that.

 

[Matej]

Sure, the civilians in the country might be easier to convince as a whole, but wouldn't it be more important to deceive your enemies into thinking that you have an advanced weapon system instead of a population that is already under your control?

No. It was confirmed many times in the past that the key aspect in this case is to have (forced or not) support of the general population in your own country. Because only thanks to that people dictators can lead the way. The price is that you will act like an idiot in the eyes of external world (see North Korea, Venezuela or Cuba as a similar examples), but who cares?

Your enemies usually have good enough intelligence services, which can do a good estimation of your military potential, so it will be very difficult and resources-costly to fool them. Instead you desperately need to spread the message, that the general pubic supports you, so the attack to your country will be for any enemy loose - loose scenario. This is likely the reason, why the Qaher-313 joke was born.

 

[chuck4]

One thing I don't understand is why the build quality is so poor. Is the Iranian military budget really so small that they can't afford to create a competent-looking mock-up?

Something that always puzzled me about propaganda was why it was often so bad. Often you only need a little bit of common sense to see through it. But then I realized that there are lots of people who lack common sense. There are a lot of people who are gullible and/or stupid. 99% of the people looking at that airplane... shape are not going to know a thing about airplanes, and so they are not going to see things like the thin walled construction of the cockpit. It has wings, the leaders say it flies, so everything is great.

Do you remember when Janes, holy f$%^ing Janes, was fooled by a amateur RC model of the J-20 that someone in China built - and definitely not for propaganda purposes - into the conclusion that the Chinese are working on a STOVL stealth jet?


If some hobbyist in China can, without intending to, fool no less a publication than Janes, why do you guys think the Iranians were so crazy to think this half baked stunt can fool foreign press as well?

 

[wuguanhui]

One thing I don't understand is why the build quality is so poor. Is the Iranian military budget really so small that they can't afford to create a competent-looking mock-up?

Something that always puzzled me about propaganda was why it was often so bad. Often you only need a little bit of common sense to see through it. But then I realized that there are lots of people who lack common sense. There are a lot of people who are gullible and/or stupid. 99% of the people looking at that airplane... shape are not going to know a thing about airplanes, and so they are not going to see things like the thin walled construction of the cockpit. It has wings, the leaders say it flies, so everything is great.

Do you remember when Janes, holy f$%^ing Janes, was fooled by a amateur RC model of the J-20 that someone in China built - and definitely not for propaganda purposes - into the conclusion that the Chinese are working on a STOVL stealth jet?


If some hobbyist in China can, without intending to, fool no less a publication than Janes, why do you guys think the Iranians were so crazy to think this half baked stunt can fool foreign press as well?

Or how about the "Chinese parasite satellite" bullshit that got into a US DoD report to Congress. ;D

 

[SlickDriver]

Qaher (Conqueror) F-313

I have been looking at various pictures of the latest aircraft that Iran has claimed to have built. I do not intend to make this a political discussion, but we have many aviation experts here I would request their expertise in the matter. Is this a real project of merely a model?


http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/iran-rolls-out-bold-design-for-homemade-fighter-jets-video/25243/

I have read to Global Security (whom I do not trust) that the rear landing gear is too large to retract. I can see that the nose of the aircraft is too small for a radar antenna, the cockpit lacks a HUD, the air intakes appear to be too small, there is no exhaust nozzle and the exhaust might be too far forward. The canopy is not clear.

Again I am just an old retired rotor-head so I hope for some clarity on the subject please.

 

[Sundog]

Re: Qaher (Conqueror) F-313

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,18332.0.html

 

[kcran567]

One thing I don't understand is why the build quality is so poor. Is the Iranian military budget really so small that they can't afford to create a competent-looking mock-up?

Something that always puzzled me about propaganda was why it was often so bad. Often you only need a little bit of common sense to see through it. But then I realized that there are lots of people who lack common sense. There are a lot of people who are gullible and/or stupid. 99% of the people looking at that airplane... shape are not going to know a thing about airplanes, and so they are not going to see things like the thin walled construction of the cockpit. It has wings, the leaders say it flies, so everything is great.

Why do you think they photoshopped the rocket launch and added in more rockets? At least some people fell for it, and more people saw the original photo than saw the posts where people pointed out that it was fake.

You want to see something amusing/sobering? Look at what these Iranian military fanboys (I think most of them are ex-pats living in the West) say about it:

http://www.iranmilitaryforum.net/air-forces/%27ghaher-313%27-newest-iranian-fighter-aircraft-will-be-unveiled-tomorrow/700/

Start from nearly the beginning. Many of them post how they are fainting with excitement, how they are sure that this is the greatest airplane ever built, unlike that horrible F-22. It looks so cool, so it must be incredible. And the leadership would not lie.

(They start to sober up by the later posts. And then some of them start praising the mockup and the RC plane as clever disinformation that will keep their enemies guessing!)

Maybe its about scamming the Iranian people. Iranian defense fraud so that the corrupt govt shows they are doing (fabricating) a working fighter. If Iran keeps this up I wonder how long they can keep a charade like this going. The overall concept is interesting like an x-36 or Bird of prey, but the details like the intakes, cockpit, and all the other features why did they take such close up pictures of it to expose the fraud? from 50 ft away it looks passable.
Another thing the Iranians are intentionally trying to make themselves look bad so they seem less a threat to Israel, that they are harmless and cant even build a jet, let alone a nuclear bomb?

 

[2IDSGT]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwizUnr859I

 

[hesham]

By the Way,


the word Qaher,means by Arabic a male world of Qahera,and Qahera means by
English, Cairo,the Cairo is a female name.


The Egypt had many developments in Missiles during the late of 1950s and early
1960s,also called Qaher.


the Qaher by Arabic means invincible.

 

[Evil Flower]

Iranians speak farsi, not arabic.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Iranians speak farsi, not arabic.

But it means the same thing.

 

[RanulfC]

X-36 and BoP were engineering masterpieces by Phantom Works staff.
This looks like an attempt of 10 years old to build something like that with LEGO blocks.
As we use to say, it's an an attempt of Kai in Hans Christian Andersen's Snedronningen to make word ETERNITY from ice cubes using three cubes with letters A, S and S

;D hilarious! Will you even give them some credit for the attempt? A pat on the back for the effort? You have to admit it is better that their Bavar WIG boat. But I still wouldn't mind having a Bavar to fish off of.

If there were no pics of the cockpit, and of the pilot hanging out of the plane because it is too small, I think from a distance it would have been passable.

The Bavar WIG at least can "fly" and actually works. This does not, on many, many levels. Should they be given "credit" for NOT understanding how stealth works? Credit for NOT understanding scaling? Credit for trying to pass off a non-functional "mock-up" (and a pretty bad one at that) as the "real-thing"?

What exactly are we supposed to "give-them-credit" for?

Randy

 

[Grey Havoc]

To be fair, it's quite likely that the higher ups saw presentations/reports from a real project, and demanded that a mock-up be hastily constructed for propaganda purposes.

 

[hesham]

Iranians speak farsi, not arabic.

Yes,but many Farsi words are the same in Arabic.

 

[TaiidanTomcat]

To be fair, it's quite likely that the higher ups saw presentations/reports from a real project, and demanded that a mock-up be hastily constructed for propaganda purposes.

TOP SECRET.

You are doing it wrong ;D

 

[Grey Havoc]

 

[antigravite]

Wind tunnel mock up, for the sake of documentation completedness.
Image source number preserved for better tracking.

Discussed without little criticism on some farsi-written blogs (checked).
Discussed and mocked with fun on Croatian aviation forum (checked).
A.

 

[antigravite]

I'm not sure those RC models pictures were posted here. So here they are…
A.

 

[chuck4]

To be fair, it's quite likely that the higher ups saw presentations/reports from a real project, and demanded that a mock-up be hastily constructed for propaganda purposes.

They could have just kept the canopy down to hide a multitude of sins.

 

[GTX]

Funny thing is that if this had been presented as a UCAV it may have more credability.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Iranians speak farsi, not arabic.

For the moment. That whole region is so screwy that one can hope that by a century hence, the borders of Greater Israel will stretch from India to Morocco, from Constantinople to Somalia.

 

[chuck4]

To be fair, it's quite likely that the higher ups saw presentations/reports from a real project, and demanded that a mock-up be hastily constructed for propaganda purposes.

If that is true, then the real project behind this mockup is at least 20-30 years from prototype and first flight based on the generally backward state of Iranian aerospace industrial infrastructure, and the lack of any appearently cohesive plan to built up experience needed to pull off this sort of project.

The first thing they should do is to design and build a 4th generation fighter. Forth generation fighters are common enough so even with the ambargo, they can still get their hands on and reference a lot of existing fighters to learn solutions to engineering problems they would inevitably enounter in designing any modern combat aircraft. You can't reinvent the wheel faster than everyone else. Learning from people who has done it before is the only way a backward country can catch up. Something based on F-16 or Mig-29, or even a very seriously upgraded F-5, something more than just adding another fin to 1960 vintage F-5, would be a reasonable start. I am guessing a real serious upgrade to F-5 will take them 10 years. Something mostly indigenous but based on F-16 or Mig-29 will take them 15-20 years. They might short cut that slightly if they manage to get the Chinese or Russians to agree to licence them J-10 or Mig-29 with wholesale technology transfer. But I wouldn't count on either the Chinese or Russians being willing to do it, or that they can speed up their geather ing of real design experience much by it.

Only when they are most of the way through carried out a semi-indigenous design effort that may be one generation behind, say 15 years from now, should they even begin to think about embarking on a wholly indigenous, fully modern design effort. Once they start, it would take them another 10-15 years to bring that to prototype stage.

But Iran is a theocracy. The nature of Theocracies is such that secular learning and practical skill needed for professional competence are always held in various degrees of contempt, while ideological fanaticism and religious ferver held to be the most important attributes of success. So it is natural for the mullahs to, in their own minds, minimize the degree of difficulties involved in overcoming merely technical, therefore secular, challenges, since in their own minds their ideal theocratic state is full of the right religious and ideological zeal.

With religious ferver and ideological zeal, who needs patience and methodical approache to technical problems?

To the mullahs it might seem quite credible that Iran can build a 5th generation fighter soon, mainly by praying hard enough. But the gap between what Iran has otherwise demonstrated of its aerospace infrastructure and experience, and the infrastructure and experience known to be possessed by anyone else who has designed any fighters of their own recently, is so vast that the concept of an indigenenous Iranian 5th generation fighter is just a total joke.

 

[AeroFranz]

You just need to look at China and India to see how long it has taken them to get to the point where they can design their own competitive fighters - and both possess vastly more resources than Iran. Still, even China can't design a proper engine yet - so I'm not holding my breath to see a fifth gen - stealth - UCAV - AESA - networked-fighter from Iran anytime soon.

 

[antigravite]

More images guys.
Sorry for low quality.
A.

 

[antigravite]

A nice, deliciously acid review of the F313 in French.


Among others:
- Did you notice the seat was a Martin-Baker M.10 "salvaged" (or canibalized) from a Northrop F5? Oh my, it's even not lined up!
- As to the radio, it's typical of those found on ultra-light aircraft.

A.


http://mobile.agoravox.fr/tribune-libre/article/aviation-13-le-f-313-le-nouveau-130024

 

[kaiserbill]

You just need to look at China and India to see how long it has taken them to get to the point where they can design their own competitive fighters - and both possess vastly more resources than Iran. Still, even China can't design a proper engine yet - so I'm not holding my breath to see a fifth gen - stealth - UCAV - AESA - networked-fighter from Iran anytime soon.

Indeed.

I've always thought Iran should perhaps start with something akin to the F-20 Tigershark.
In other words, build a modified F-5 airframe, and source the radar and engine from China, such as the WP-14 or WS-13.

That would be vastly more practical.

Of course, the other option would be a straight out purchase of the similar JF-17, or another Chinese fighter type.

The F-5's, F-4's, and F-14's cannot fly forever....

 

[Orionblamblam]

More images guys.

FWIW. I make no claim about whether the aspect ratio is right.

 

[chuck4]

You just need to look at China and India to see how long it has taken them to get to the point where they can design their own competitive fighters - and both possess vastly more resources than Iran. Still, even China can't design a proper engine yet - so I'm not holding my breath to see a fifth gen - stealth - UCAV - AESA - networked-fighter from Iran anytime soon.

Indeed.

I've always thought Iran should perhaps start with something akin to the F-20 Tigershark.
In other words, build a modified F-5 airframe, and source the radar and engine from China, such as the WP-14 or WS-13.

That would be vastly more practical.

Of course, the other option would be a straight out purchase of the similar JF-17, or another Chinese fighter type.

The F-5's, F-4's, and F-14's cannot fly forever....

Straight out purchase doesn't teach you about how to design a fighter, nor how to manufacture specialized parts. Either you kidnap someone else's entire design team, including those who would design the process for manufacturing the parts you designed to put into your planes, or you give yourself a practice design and manufacture projects that actually leads to production, so anything you did wrong would be made menifest.

 

[SpudmanWP]

Here is something I found

 

[Abraham Gubler]

The first thing they should do is to design and build a 4th generation fighter.

Easier said than done. Iran’s big problem is they can’t build fighter engines. If they could build something like the RD-33 or WS-19 or even a J79 clone they could turn their reverse engineered F-5 production line into turning out knock off F-20s and they would have a respectable domestic day fighter. But they are limited to producing J85 copies which means trying to build a 21st century SABA (small agile battlefield aircraft) like this Qaher-313.

 

[JFC Fuller]

Spudman,

They are the same avionics I identified, I am still working on the central MFD and the screen on the lower panel by the pilots knee. The main MFD actually reminds of some of the ones coming out of China whilst the screen on the lower panel might be a commercial moving map display or engine monitor.