English Electric Canberra with in-flight refuelling receptor???

[Pioneer]

G'day all

Just a question if I may; did English Electric ever seriously study a flight refuelling receptor arrangement for its Canberra design?
I'm just reading about the Australian / RAAF Operations Requirement to replace it's English Electric Canberra's, but as then PM Menzies was careful to note 'that the Canberra was by no means obsolete'. Considering the then principly perceived threat being Indonesia, I tend to agree with his analogy about the Canberra not being totally obsolete. I'm wondering if the Canberra was able to be retrofitted with an in-flight refuelling receptor, it's principle short falling - range could have been compensated for, hence prolonging the usefulness of the Canberra as a light bomber for the RAAF, some what negate the headlong rush into finding and committing blindly to a State-of-the-art design like either the TSR.2 or TFX, when for all intended purposes, they were all but risky drawing board designs, which would escalate substantially in both money and delayed operational service entry!

Regards
Pioneer

 

[yellowaster]

My understanding is that in-flight refuelling occurs at higher pressure than the Canberra fuel system (primarily the tanks?) can handle. Would have required a new fuel system, which was one reason why the UK never considered it. The only Canberra I am aware of that ever had a in-flight refuelling probe, and was able to take fuel through it, was one of the FRL airframes. That was a trial system, limited capacity, and was piped through to the wing-tip tanks only.

 

[Rickshaw]

Do you mean a drogue and probe refueling system or a probe and receptacle refueling system?

If the former, at least two Canberras were modified to carry a drogue and probe system, one with the drogue and the other with the probe. These two aircraft demonstrated the practicality of using such a system on Canberras. WH734 was one of them:

I am unaware of any British or allied Canberras being fitted with a probe and receptacle system. Some American B-57 Canberras may have had them (notably the B-57F)?

 

[TsrJoe]

WH734

 

[Pioneer]

Thank you all for your replies to my question.

In reply to verify my question Kadija_Man, I did mean "a probe and receptacle refueling system".

"in-flight refuelling occurs at higher pressure than the Canberra fuel system (primarily the tanks?) can handle."

probably makes sense yellowaster; so a high pressure fuel system incorporated during manufacturing of the Canberra would make more economical sense?

Thank's for the photo TsrJoe!!


Regards
Pioneer

 

[Jemiba]

Perhaps The Martin B-57 Canberra would have been a more likely candidate for such a system,
than the English Electric built versions ? At least some RB-57D are said to have had IFR capability.
And a non-US aircraft would have hardly had been fitted with a receptacle, I think.

 

[Hood]

There was some interesting in fitting Canberra with a receptor probe, as early as September 1951 the Air Staff looked into it. A flight trial was made with Flight Refuelling's Lancaster G-33-2 to determine ideal formating positions and where best to locate the probe. A nose-mounted probe was recommended. I presume TSRJoe's photo is from these trials. It was even contemplated for the 1953 England-New Zealand race (won by standard PR.3 WE139). However ultimately it was decided not to continue and the Air Staff lost interest in fitting the Canberras, even though they soon specified refueling capability for the V-Force.
Changes to the fuel system were not mentioned, but then work had not gone that far to warrant work to convert the system for actual fuel transfers.

 

[alejandrogrossi]

hi
I find this
The Canberra, that refueling the javelin have the IFR, too

 

[GTX]

Interesting note tangentially related to this: Apparently CAC/RAAF did some looking at a AAR CAC Avon Sabre that might have been operated alongside a tanker EE Canberra

 

[Fluff]

Thank you all for your replies to my question.

In reply to verify my question Kadija_Man, I did mean "a probe and receptacle refueling system".

"in-flight refuelling occurs at higher pressure than the Canberra fuel system (primarily the tanks?) can handle."

probably makes sense yellowaster; so a high pressure fuel system incorporated during manufacturing of the Canberra would make more economical sense?

Thank's for the photo TsrJoe!!


Regards
Pioneer

Would have needed a bit of work, as the Canberra was fueled manually, like a car, 5 tanks on the fuselage top(tail tank last!!) 2 wing tanks, we didnt use the tip tanks except for deployments. I think there was also a bomb bay tank available, but then you couldn't carry a camera in there.

 

[Hood]

The photograph is of Canberra B.2 WH734 which was converted by Flight Refuelling Ltd in July 1953 with a Mk XV Hose Drum Unit to support the trials relating to the Valiant tanker at higher speeds and altitudes.
The HDU was connected to No.3 fuel tank but only to supply enough fuel to fill the hose to ensure it was correctly weighted to fly at the correct trailing angle. There was no transfer of fuel.

The big finding from the higher-speed WH734 trials was that the solid drogue unsuitable due to the receiver aircraft's 'bow wave' which ultimately led to the ventilated slotted drogue now in use.

Presumably the IFR fitted to WH734 was for dry contacts with smaller aircraft (Valiant WZ390 was the larger receiver and Valiant WZ376 was the tanker with a Mk XVI HDU).