Armored trains

royabulgaf

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
29 December 2008
Messages
647
Reaction score
296
What exactly was the military doctrine of armored trains in WW2 and the years leading up to it? They seem to be sitting ducks for ground attack aircraft, can only go where railroads go, and can be easily immobilized by damaging the tracks.
 
Defending and patrolling rail lines (and protecting rail traffic) if I'm correct.

It would be very interesting to hear more about overall patterns of use in different countries during the war.
 
There was a story about the semi-armoured trains on a UK coastal route being immune from strafing because the route was narrow gauge, so the trains were under-sized. The optical illusion threw off aiming...

IIRC, they patrolled in case of paratroopers and small-boat raiders.

In the event of a major incursion, they expected a short but merry life...
 
Railroads are any armies logistic backbone in WW1 and WW2, so going where the railroad goes with firepower, protection and enough coal and water to travel at 30mph for hundreds of miles without resupply is very useful. Basically the point of an armored train was, when guerrillas blow up the railroad tracks you roll up the armored train as a mobile fort to protect repair workers. Guerrillas in Russia and Yugoslavia, and some other parts of the world like China, were not always small bands. Often that had hundreds of men who could attack the railway tracks, and it took heavy firepower from armored trains to drive them back. The lack of roads often precluded rapid movement of tanks; some armored trains could unload tanks and infantry to attack overland as well. The guns on a armored train were usually much heavier then the guns of typical tanks prior to 1942 and the train had large stocks of ammo and supplies so even if disabled by damaged track or a bombing it could hold out until relieved. This sort of mission was relevant even in the prewar era, the Germans had armored trains in the 1920s and 1930s for example in ordered to use them to stop armed strikers and protesters from shutting down rail traffic. Armored trains could exploit industrial rail lines to go into factory areas and down public streets and a lot of other places you don't see so many railway lines anymore in the west, so the ability to disperse strikes ect... was considerable.

Air attacks were always a threat and destroyed many armored trains in the war, but the better built Soviet and German armored trains did have anti aircraft guns protection and the armor protected them against strafing and near misses. It took heavy bombs falling on the train to destroy it, and that was easier said then done. Even if damaged the components could often be salvaged.

While mainly for use in the rear areas the Soviets in particular used them whenever possible for combat against conventional forces. In the flat open Russian plains an armored train with 76-107mm artillery pieces might be able to shoot at Germans ten kilometers away in any direction. That’s a very potent area of influence when you have 200 rounds per gun to shoot off and can then withdrawal rapidly down the tracks to get more. The very smoothness of that constricted railroad track meant the armored train was a good gunnery platform!

I know of three books on armored trains which I have and are full of pictures. Really good books, I bought all of them and no regrets if you like trains and armored vehicles. The books are German Armored Trains in World War II Volumes I and II, by Wolfgang Sawodny, and Armored Trains of The Soviet Union by Wukfrued Kopenhagen.
 
Found several articles on the subject on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armoured_train

Czechoslovakia/Slovakia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armored_train_Hurban

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armored_train_%C5%A0tef%C3%A1nik

Poland:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danuta_%28armoured_train%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%9Amia%C5%82y_%28armoured_train%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi%C5%82sudczyk_%28armoured_train%29
 
Nik said:
There was a story about the semi-armoured trains on a UK coastal route being immune from strafing because the route was narrow gauge, so the trains were under-sized. The optical illusion threw off aiming...

http://www.rhdr.org.uk/pages/history.html

My grandfather was on the railways during WWII, as a protected occupation.

Driving a 70 ton pressurised steam vessel at 90mph with a thousand tons of ammo behind you, a furnace in your office and a very predictable route given the Stukas and Messerschmidts etc overhead. Dashing from tunnel to tunnel.

British railways are fairly tied up in Secret Projects too, you've got that second portal of Box Tunnel near the semi-mythical Rudloe Manor, the mythical Strategic Rail Reserve, all those branch lines that the Ordnance Survey seems to have missed ;)
 
My bet is on the steam reserve having been real; though probably nothing more elaborate then a few dozen locomotives in scattered wooden sheds exactly as the reserve in Sweden turns out to really be. Storing the engines in any of the underground ammo or aircraft factory type complexes Britain built around the time of WW2 seems unlikely simply because conditions would be dank and the facilities would be known communist targets. With a wooden shed, even the collapse of the shed timbers from atomic blast would leave the locomotives largely unharmed, while hopefully helping prevent them from being overturned by the blast front.
 
Just received this massive book, a translation of an updated 2016 edition of a book first published in France in 1989. If this book isn't the last word on the subject (over seventy countries are included!), then I don't know what is.

https://www.amazon.com/Armoured-Trains-Illustrated-Encyclopedia-1825-2016/dp/1591146070/
 
I have seen period photos of German trains with anti-aircraft gun emplacements. Imagine a large concrete cylinder standing on end with a raised floor inside. Under the floor was additional ammunition. The cylindrical shape meant that glancing shots causing little damage were more common. Otherwise, armored trains were given sufficient guns to ward off attackers on foot, horse or vehicle. And enough armor to stop small arms fire.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom