Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

With all of the orders on the books how long would it be before they actually get any F-35s delivered? Considering the performance of the Royal Saudi Air Force I think those airframes would do better in the hands of just about anyone else.
 
Luftwaffe F-35 roll out
Source: Lockheed Martin FB page
 

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helmutkohl said:
Luftwaffe F-35 roll out
Source: Lockheed Martin FB page
View attachment 824099View attachment 824100View attachment 824101
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Surprised nobody's posted this yet... There's a fair bit of exposed rivets here (for those who like to claim the F-35 has no exposed rivets), and I don't think we've ever had this good a look at some of these finer details before:

Definitely one for the archives...

https://twitter.com/x/status/2100481184690028753
View: https://x.com/LMEuropeNews/status/2100481184690028753?s=20
 
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snne said:
Surprised nobody's posted this yet... There's a fair bit of exposed rivets here (for those who like to claim the F-35 has no exposed rivets), and I don't think we've ever had this good a look at some of these finer details before:
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Look more like removable fasteners than rivets to me
 
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GTX said:
Look more like removable fasteners than rivets to me
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Yeah, I momentarily forgot what it's called -- English isn't my native language as you might have guessed :p

Edit: Wanted to add this comparison here just so that this particular post of mine actually contributes something to the topic :)
 

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I never figured the F-35 was going to see Luftwaffe service, it didn't seem like it would fill any particular role for them until the "special weapons" topic came up since apparently the Typhoon couldn't do that. Nice to see it in German markings.

In theory the IRIS-T missile shouldn't be that hard to integrate on the outer wing pylons, but considering how software development for the F-35 still manages to be a complete mess somehow, I'm guessing they're just buying AIM-9Xs.
 
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eagle said:
Not what they're doing with the F-22 LO-pylons.
Assuming they are working on a similiar solution for the F-35 is not unreasonable.
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They are not. As has been discussed many times there are aerodynamic issues with external tanks on the F-35, and no one wants to pay to solve these issues.
 
donnage99 said:
Same concern as with Turkey having Russian radar specialists lookin at detection data on the S-400 tracking Turkeys own F-35.

The Chinese and Saudi have deepening ties when it comes to military and military adjacent techs, the field of radar included
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I think its come to a point where the entire ME is going to have security relationship with both China and the US if not China Russia and the US. So either you stop selling them your most sophisticated systems like BMD, 5th / 6th gen aircraft and drones or you live with the fact that these will be shared markets. I see the same with the UAE. The decision is whether to walk away from these markets completely and let the Chinese, Russians and Europeans slice it up or to allow broader export. We're past the stage where we can exercise authority and demand that Chinese cooperation be rolled back.
 
donnage99 said:
Same concern as with Turkey having Russian radar specialists lookin at detection data on the S-400 tracking Turkeys own F-35.

The Chinese and Saudi have deepening ties when it comes to military and military adjacent techs, the field of radar included
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Why would we do that when we went through all the hassle of booting Turkey out?
 
JS23 said:
They could also buy ASRAAMS from the UK.
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Or just not fly the F-35A with short range missiles at all. It's a strike fighter and replaces a fighter-bomber first and foremost. It'll carry A2G ordnance most of the time and for everything else AIM-120 is good enough, which is already in stock due to the Eurofighter.
 
Speaking of the risk of F-35 secrets being exposed due to partnerships: https://www.politico.com/news/2026/09/18/congress-f-35-china-investigation-01083647

Hill investigates after F-35 parts diverted to Hong Kong​

Sensitive F-35 fighter jet technology was unexpectedly diverted to Hong Kong this summer, sparking an inquiry on Capitol Hill and raising the possibility that China could have access to key components of the highly classified weapon system.

A shipment of F-35 parts bound for the United States for repairs was rerouted as it transited the Pacific Ocean from Australia, according to three people familiar with the matter who were granted anonymity to discuss private conversations. The Pentagon confirmed the disappearance of some components.

The parts, which an intermediary was transporting on behalf of F-35 manufacturer Lockheed Martin, instead wound up in Hong Kong. It’s not clear why the equipment was rerouted or who has possession of it now.
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EmoBirb said:
Or just not fly the F-35A with short range missiles at all. It's a strike fighter and replaces a fighter-bomber first and foremost. It'll carry A2G ordnance most of the time and for everything else AIM-120 is good enough, which is already in stock due to the Eurofighter.
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Germany has already ordered, or will order, the following weapons for their F-35 fleet...

AIM-9X Blk.II
AIM-120C-8
GBU-31 JDAM (BLU109 warhead)
GBU-54 LJDAM
JSM

And of course they will have access to B-61/12...

Germany also already has stocks of AIM-120B and GBU-24 which can be used on F-35A. The JASSM/ER purchase has been postponed as of August (unclear if its stone cold dead though). Not much heard on the SDB2 Stormbreaker order recently either...but they were approved to buy it. There was some negotiations around AIM-120D-3 as well...

To be honest quite surprised they haven't moved on SDB1 as they trialled it on Tornado and were, at one point, looking to add it to Typhoon..which clearly shows some interest in it.
 
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GTX said:
Exactly what are you trying to say here??
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It mostly just seemed pertinent to all the noise about who can or should be allowed in the program.

But at this point, honestly, when there are currently 20 member nations operating and/or producing parts for it, with those operations and the logistics supporting them spread all over the world, and multiple suspected or confirmed successful intelligence leaks of program information or materials, I wonder when people are going to stop treating it like such a golden calf.
 
quellish said:
They are not. As has been discussed many times there are aerodynamic issues with external tanks on the F-35, and no one wants to pay to solve these issues.
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Cannot make a pylon real stealthy, they are attached externally and are going to have at least a minimal return, same goes for the new F-22 "shaped" composite external tanks, maybe gives you a little more advantage but I could be wrong as well, just going by my just enough to be dangerous experience.
 
Finland's F-35s finally arrive at their home at Rovaniem.
Source: Official Finnish AF FB page
 

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Sferrin said:
Why would we do that when we went through all the hassle of booting Turkey out?
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Current admin has quite a family business tie to the Saudis in the billions of dollars. Turkey - millions at best.

Notably, Kushner launched Affinity Partners. Saudi Arabia's Public Investment Fund (PIF), chaired by Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MBS), committed $2 billion to the start-up despite domestic criticism that Kushner had little experience in financial management.

Trump family also has mutiple active real estate projects with the Saudis in which Trump personally hold 80% of the equity.

It's also important to note that the ban on Turkey was enacted by Congress not Trump. Trump has openly called for the ban to be lifted. Maybe Congress will step in to enact a ban on Saudis but Saudis influence on our Congress isn't on the same level as Turkey no offense to our Turkish friends.

Corruptions aside, I'm conflicted on these bans. as @bring_it_on said, we at a point where we either lose these markets completely or live with the fact that we can't control how these countries buy their weapons.
 
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donnage99 said:
Current admin has quite a family business tie to the Saudis in the billions of dollars. Turkey - millions at best.

Notably, Kushner launched Affinity Partners. Saudi Arabia's Public Investment Fund (PIF), chaired by Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MBS), committed $2 billion to the start-up despite domestic criticism that Kushner had little experience in financial management.

Trump family also has mutiple active real estate projects with the Saudis in which Trump personally hold 80% of the equity.

It's also important to note that the ban on Turkey was enacted by Congress not Trump. Trump has openly called for the ban to be lifted. Maybe Congress will step in to enact a ban on Saudis but Saudis influence on our Congress isn't on the same level as Turkey no offense to our Turkish friends.

Corruptions aside, I'm conflicted on these bans. as @bring_it_on said, we at a point where we either lose these markets completely or live with the fact that we can't control how these countries buy their weapons.
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Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
 
I think that recent events have established Saudi Arabia to be, effectively, a regional defense partner. It’s become obvious that MBS’ number one goal at this point is regional stability, and he’s fallen back on the US and its proxies to provide it even as China and Russia have aligned with Iran. Meanwhile, Turkey is still playing man-in-the-middle. I think that if the question is “would they sell secret access to the F-35”, it seems unlikely that MBS would at this point, but plausible that Erdogan might.

(The corruption aspect helps too, but for MBS and Trumpworld that’s basically just another form of diplomacy, where being included on a scheme is like marrying into the family.)
 

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