Possible configuration of the Boeing F-47 NGAD

Reddington777 said:
That looks good, but wouldn't having a higher (more blended) area between the engine nacelles make more sense both for volume and possibly for reduced RCS spikes? Also is the cockpit too narrow?
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And that nose. . .
 
FlyGuy369 said:
Everyone, did ANYONE see this before? I played with the light settings on the two images from online, and both of them indicate a contoured "BoP" wingtip. It isnt a sharp turn but a gradual one. Could be a huge clue.
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Ehhhhhh... I do not like that... not a single bit aesthetically at least.
 
red admiral said:
What is the fineness ratio of your concept? i.e. max cross sectional area vs length. This is fairly key for supersonic drag.

I'd also think about how to get structurally efficient load paths.
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Wrt fineness ratio and area ruling, there is indeed room for improvement :)

NGDA_Airframe_417_004.png
 

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VTOLicious said:
Wrt fineness ratio and area ruling, there is indeed room for improvement :)

View attachment 777228
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That blue area graph over the airframe cross sections gives the diagram looks like skeleton structure of a dinosaur with spine fin from Jurassic World. And the jet got a big mouth/intake too.
This humor post will get deleted soon.
 

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Low IQ Techie said:
That blue area graph over the airframe cross sections gives the diagram looks like skeleton structure of a dinosaur with spine fin from Jurassic World. And the jet got a big mouth/intake too.
This humor post will get deleted soon.
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You're thinking of Spinosaurus, a (probably) semiaquatic Therapod dinosaur from the cretaceous period. It was the main antagonist dinosaur in Jurassic park 3 and the skeleton of a spinosaurus briefly appeared in Jurassic World:

en.m.wikipedia.org

Spinosaurus - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
camus-altamirano-art-captura-de-pantalla-2023-07-11-a-la-s-9-21-19.jpg
 
gojira007 said:
You're thinking of Spinosaurus, a (probably) semiaquatic Therapod dinosaur from the cretaceous period. It was the main antagonist dinosaur in Jurassic park 3 and the skeleton of a spinosaurus briefly appeared in Jurassic World:

en.m.wikipedia.org

Spinosaurus - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
View attachment 777248
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I always knew there existed an intersection of dinosaur enthusiasts and aviation nerds.

That child part of me has never died
 
VTOLicious said:
Wrt fineness ratio and area ruling, there is indeed room for improvement :)

View attachment 777228
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Not to be picky, the the cuts need to be made at the appropriate design mach angle and rotated about the station (I am using simple terminology). The effort really does not mean too much when done in a subsonic or static condition. That probably be the first step for improvement.
 
@djfawcett I'd say that the Mach = 1.0 case is still pretty instructive as it can be near a thrust/drag pinch point.

My previous point was just to get to roughly what the fineness ratio is compared to other aircraft. It's quite low.
 
Low IQ Techie said:
That blue area graph over the airframe cross sections gives the diagram looks like skeleton structure of a dinosaur with spine fin from Jurassic World. And the jet got a big mouth/intake too.
This humor post will get deleted soon.
Click to expand...
Giving the dinosaur a tail would improve fineness ratio and area ruling ;)
MAKS2015part1-10_a.jpg
 
VTOLicious said:
Blackburn Buccaneer is a good example as well...
View attachment 777399
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The thing to notice in this diagram as well as F-22 is that CS level at wing tip has already started decreasing before.
It is max somewhere around the mid fuselage after intake.
From YF-22 to F-22 the cockpit was pushed forward & intakes backward to adjust the CS reducing sonic drag.
 
Since the F22 and F47 are expected to be sleeker than legacy aircrafts, external stores have a greater impact on drag.
This is especially true with all the large stealthy pods in the works.
One reason I think they won't be used as much by the F22 and F47. If any smaller ones with smaller loads are preferred by them because they can consume the load faster and ditch them earlier and not becoming dead weight.
 
Power management patent from Boeing featuring a notional F-47and three streams engines:

US11077949B2 - Dual turbine thermal management system (TMS) - Google Patents

A thermal management system for an aircraft engine. The thermal management system extracts interstage engine bleed air from the engine's compressor and performs three stage cooling of the interstage engine bleed air using two heat exchangers and a vapor cycle system evaporator. The cooled air is...
patents.google.com
 
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FlyGuy369 said:
Power management payent from Boeing featuring a notional F-47and three streams engines:

US11077949B2 - Dual turbine thermal management system (TMS) - Google Patents

A thermal management system for an aircraft engine. The thermal management system extracts interstage engine bleed air from the engine's compressor and performs three stage cooling of the interstage engine bleed air using two heat exchangers and a vapor cycle system evaporator. The cooled air is...
patents.google.com
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Corresponding to this render it looks like.

Who knows - the F-47 official render might just be the Navy demonstrator that Boeing built instead of NGAD. Could explain the canards.
 

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I can’t stop thinking about the Voodoo 2 patch. Stare hard enough and the “needles” look like JATMs.

Is that a crow or a raven sitting in the skeletons right hands needle or JATM? For me it’s hard not to be reminded of AOC or EF-111A, and I’m by no means an expert but the beak would suggest a crow over a raven. Might this suggest a unique synergy of LO 5/6th gen fighters and JATM?

The twin red lines emanating from the nose of the plane / tip of the collar evoke the twin apertures of the J-36 and the color suggests IR.

I have no idea of what that little animal is between the “O” and “H” are except if you told me I couldn’t use “demon bat” to describe it I might settle for “ghost bat”, if drunk. Almost forgot the headgear! A top hat? That’s an E-7 trigger for sure, and then you throw in the blue and red bunting in a lightning shape…

I know it’s just a demonstrator patch but it’s thought provoking to me. Putting this here bc this thread seems more open to + tea leaves reading.
 
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I don't have time to design anything right now, but is anyone available to design this for me:

The "F/A-XX" design, instead of the axisymmetrical nozzle, a flat 2d nozzle similar to photo 2.

Also, instead of the "mini-chine", extend it and attach a canard on its outboard edge like the images.

Lastly, undermount the air intakes like from this patent from Boeing, make sure it is aft of the leading edge where the wing meets the Chines.

Attaching reference images to the end for assistance, trying to prepare to leave in 3 weeks or I would do more myself!
 

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Long time lurker, finally made an account to get your opinion on an idea regarding the F-47s aerodynamics...
The whole talk about "revolutionary aerodynamics", the surprising dihedral of the wings and the canards, and the hints of a potential gull wing configuration together with the Boeing patent in this post
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...neration-air-dominance-ngad.45737/post-770180
made me think, maybe the F-47 has no classical flaps and manouvers by asymmetric dihedral between canards and gull wing tips? That would be revolutionary aerodynamics.
 
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GX-100 said:
Long time lurker, finally made an account to get your opinion on an idea regarding the F-47s aerodynamics...
The whole talk about "revolutionary aerodynamics", the surprising dihedral of the wings and the canards, and the hints of a potential gull wing configuration together with the Boeing patent in this post
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...neration-air-dominance-ngad.45737/post-770180
made me think, maybe the F-47 has no classical flaps and manouvers by asymmetric dihedral between canards and gull wing tips? That would be revolutionary aerodynamics.
Click to expand...
I've speculated about a novel solution in regards of the canards here... https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...ion-of-the-boeing-f-47-ngad.45793/post-772742
 
Nx4eu said:
Saw this posted online. Likely just a artistic rendition and not the F-47's real shape but I thought I'd post it here.
View attachment 778658
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Looks to me like a version of this:

GX-100 said:
My apologies, I must have missed that one. I think you're right about the flexible cover. Just changing the an/dihedral for manouvering is probably also more stealthy (from the frontal aspect) than deflecting flaps, I would guess.
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Flexible cover works only on a plane (as in flat) directional folding. It's bad in covering the front and end where it would have to twist.
This would require some cone-like cover like on older aircraft.
Besides the tips work aerodynamically different from what you think (like in the case of folding horizontal tails).
See the Boeing 777X for in existing application of this:
simpleflying.com

The Technical Features Taking The Boeing 777X To The Next Level

A recap of innovations found on Boeing's upcoming long-range product.
simpleflying.com simpleflying.com
where it has to unfold to increase maneuverability and fold for efficient (fast) flight.
Also folding down is preferred to also take advantage of waveriding. Just saying.

On a side note I did tought about this, too but based on the Mach 4.5 fighter design from ~50 years. I dismissed it because of mechanics and the size constraints where it would be clearly noticeable on the renders.

Modern Air Combat-Mach4.5@Arnold.png
 
9x39 said:
They appear to be very similar I was wondering if anyone knew if they had any correlation to each other.
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This has been discussed. It's reasonable to assume that Boeing would look at their own previous work when designing a new aircraft. You can check on these two threads as well as this current one:

MihoshiK said:
Source?
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NASA studies from 1994/1995 with Boeing/McDonnell Douglas
 
what do yall think of NGAD potentially having laminar flow wings or blown wings. laminar has had pretty good success but it comes at the cost of complexity and i think a bit of weight but to me the high efficiency of them outweighs some of the performance hits
 
JJPET said:
what do yall think of NGAD potentially having laminar flow wings or blown wings. laminar has had pretty good success but it comes at the cost of complexity and i think a bit of weight but to me the high efficiency of them outweighs some of the performance hits
Click to expand...
100% laminar flow wing'
 
JJPET said:
what do yall think of NGAD potentially having laminar flow wings or blown wings. laminar has had pretty good success but it comes at the cost of complexity and i think a bit of weight but to me the high efficiency of them outweighs some of the performance hits
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Highly likely to have blown control surfaces to increase effectiveness with smaller surface movements. There's even been some experiments and patents in replacing mechanical ailerons and flaps entirely with jets of air.
 

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