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Author Topic: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects  (Read 65420 times)

Offline Hikoki1946

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Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« on: July 20, 2009, 06:22:44 am »
Thank you for your message!

I do bear excellent news. Ian Allan has green-lighted my Italian secret projects book proposal. But I won't be the only one at the helm on this one as this board's very own Skybolt will be sharing authoring duties with me. He was a natural choice with his top notch knowledge of Italian aircraft.

At this time, more than 50 of the most interesting Italian x-planes will be included in the text, spanning WW1 to a bit past WW2. Both military and civilian aircraft will be discussed.

Turn-in date for the book manuscript is January 2011 and the book may hit the shelves in the winter of 2011, possibly early 2012.

So, stay tuned!

Regards,

Ed


Mr Pelzig,

 Needless to say sir, if ever such a book as your: "Italian Secret Projects" could actually materialize, you would be Johnathan Thompson's worthy 'successor' (at least here in the 'states') and he could be justly proud of you, and so should we!  (I believe this renowned automotive author is recently deceased? and it's a pity I just could not opportune to see him in person, when I was in California many years ago.)
« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 02:19:03 am by overscan »

Offline AeroFranz

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Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2009, 11:38:41 am »
That is indeed EXCELLENT news, thanks (or rather grazie mille) for filling a gap in the secret projects series. ;D
Please keep us posted with news of the progress. It will be hard to wait that long, but I am sure the wait will be well worth it ;)
All modern aircraft have four dimensions: span, length, height and politics.   TSR.2 got the first three right - Sir Sydney Camm

Offline Antonio

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Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2009, 03:02:37 pm »
Great news. I'll be tuned waiting to order my copy :)

Offline Drive

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Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2009, 03:29:10 pm »
Certainly I will buy a copy of the book about Italian projects, I have been waiting for such a book for years!

Guido

Offline Circumspect

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Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2009, 10:08:17 pm »
To Messrs. "Pelzig" and "Skybolt"

 You lads are the only two on the whole planet who could ensure that such a book would, in fact, exist: so please repose yourselves in good health for our sake!  Needless to say, I am prompted to begin notifying every soul who could have (or, should have!) some interest in it, namely special: bookstore owners, IPMS officers and model-builders, magazine editors, museum curators and researchers, aero engineers and pilots with Italian family backgrounds, enthusiast websites et al, here in the States.

 In a few month's time, I will remark extensively on two contemporaneous WWII documents:

- NACA-TM-1010 (report: Mar '42/Washington D.C.): S. Campini "Analytical Theory of the Campini Propulsion System" (A wartime National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics translation in 69 pp.)

- "Caproni-Campini Aircraft and Allied Developments in Italy" as reported by R.A.F. Squadron leader F.E. Pickles, from a visit through Rome, Italy in June 1944. G-2 Division, SHAEF (SECRET-declassified) 84 pp. (complete photocopy courtesy of Giorgio Apostolo)

 The first report (sporting enough aerothermodynamic equations and graphs to have been my 4th-year propulsion textbook) is a sales pitch by Mr Campini on the viability and sufficiency of his method.  The last report (likewise containing much formulae, graphs, tabulations, cross-sectional illustrations, and photos, etc.) describes jet-propulsion progress much beyond the original N.1 aircraft: with graphic descriptions on further airframe proposals using Campini's method, but also describing full-cycle gas-turbine powerplant proposals, in detail, superseding the original Campini method. (All this from a Rome intel-tour that never reached, as yet, into the Milan area, in the war's progress northwards.)

Circumspect





 


Offline Skybolt

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Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2009, 01:06:13 am »
My dear circumspect, you'll soon find the almost all the info published till now on Campini come from those two documents.... unfortunately, Italian aviation historians for the most part tended to not cite their sources. The remaining info come from later Campini's article (e.g. the famous article on "L'Ala" magazine, January 1948. Other "revelations" come from interviews given by Campini's wife in the and 70s and 80s, after Campini's own death. You wll not find there the late-war application proposals of Campini system to high-altitude interceptors, like the Ca-183bis, essentially because the info base of those reports came from the surviving shreds of the Ministero dell'Aerenonautica archives in Rome and Guidonia the Allies found when they arrived there in June 1944, and on a couple of interviews with Ministero's functionaries who stayed in Rome (very negative on Campini's proposals). You'll find instead the much-maligned proposal(s) by Guidonia's engineers (Broglio and Ferri, above all) for modifying the Re-2005 with a Campini's system.
I may add that the there described turboprop was very sketchy and faced an unsormoutable barrier: we (Italy) had no the metallurgy skills to produce the high strenght alloys to build the turbine fans. And, BTW, to buld a real turbocompressor driven by exhaust gases. That's the reason we resorted to the Campini's system, that worked at much lower temperatures (Caproni Vizzola toyed with turbocompressors for a while and designed a couple of projects that used the DB-605 with a turbocompressor, Sagittario I (or was it II, ?) comes to mind). There are rumours that the turboprop was considered to engine a couple of Breda-Zappata projects.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2009, 01:14:29 am by Skybolt »

Offline Firefly 2

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Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2009, 03:46:50 pm »
By Jove, the series continues unexpected ways! I'm so exited!

Offline blackkite

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2009, 08:29:57 am »
 :o Hi Ed, I realize this topic now.
It's big news for me because I have no book for Italian secret projects.

Offline Skybolt

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2009, 11:04:21 am »
VERY well, so we'll have at least a customer from the Rising Sun ! Spread the news ovr there, Blackkite San, please.

Offline airman

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2009, 01:06:07 pm »
"January 2011 and the book may hit the shelves in the winter of 2011, possibly early 2012" : oh well before the end of world !!!!   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D
writers , bloggers , content-curators ,  music composer and passionate of militaria and uchronia

Offline blackkite

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2009, 04:38:49 pm »
Dear skybolt! I will do my best. But many Japanese air enthusiast will know this book soon by KOKU FAN, AIREVIEW, AIR WORLD magazine. Don't worry. 
Blackie

Offline archipeppe

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2009, 02:31:43 am »
wonderful!!! I'm eager to have a copy....

Offline Farloccus

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2009, 06:00:21 am »

Keep a copy for me too.

Offline Circumspect

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2010, 10:35:08 pm »
Re: "The Canards of War"(DVD/Eureka Media 2009)

AERO CINEMA w/coordinated US marketing from Historic Aviation bookshop) released a surprising expose on the 'canard' concept, both Allied and Axis, covering (almost!) all the canard concepts to actually fly - excluding the merely tail-pusher types.  Unfortunately, this nascent (but now vaunted) British video/TV production blundered - by excluding Ambrosini's S.S.4 from any mention at all!

This latest 1/2-hr video began its revolutionary 'canard' subject on Focke Wulf's charming FW.19 "Duck" (a small late-20s feederliner-concept), which actually flew.  Then, continuing into its first 'scare' project: the FW.42 (an early-30s twin-medium bomber, with performance scarcely matching a Martin B-10, except in range). Here, AERO CINEMA feeds the typical UK-audience's German hand: overplaying an H.G. Wells promise of "Things To Come" that this FW.42 threat to civilization held for the Island Kingdom, including its 'cancellation' in the early-30s (to forestall unfavorable English response) - by the nascent Nazi desire not to pre-maturely alarm its neighbors, just yet! (Nicely done though.) Now comes the UK reply!

AERO CINEMA seems to use color films to present the Miles M.39B: more as a Ministry of Defense's exploratory counter-foreshadowing of how a Battle of Britain could be turned into a Battle of Germany, if Britain could also play this 'canard' card; rather than just Miles Aircraft's own initiatives to improve handling-qualities from a pilot's utility.  (Again, nicely done, but still expected some discussion about the Handley Page project, given the 'strategic' bend Aero Cinema was lending to its canard presentation.) No further UK projects, as it now crosses the oceans to America and Japan.

The promising Curtiss XP-55 Ascender now gets its full attention, also describing how its 'Ass-ender'  byname was earned. However, the final 'canard' masterpiece now awaits its Japanese incarnation.  

Here, the Kysushu J7W gets its own final due on its potential to overturn the air war over Japan (as it was unfortunately playing out for Japan by 1945).  No doubt, this most formidable of 'canards' climaxed everything the enthusiastic aficionado would expect, including its transition to jet power!  (I've seen this most-popularized J7W2 Hasagawa version within even the most recent IPMS-conventions.  However, a 'compact' fitting turbojet-engine - of some 3000+lbs-thrust - was not in the offing in Japan for some years, unless they could import a Rolls Royce Derwent!  (A mere 2000lbs-thrust engine would be a mouse.)  Moreover, 'transonic' stability & control vagaries, already becoming a deadly unknown by the mid-40s, would likely likely play further havoc with a canard concept, as could be easily imagined!

All in all, quite an informative and revelatory video short-subject by AERO CINEMA, with color-graphics to boot.  However, its complete omission of any passing mention of Ambrosini's S.S.4 seems unforgivable.  This Italian canard sported state-of-art high-performance just as commensurate to its time (1939: including full tactical-weapons potential), as any of the other canards this video covered.  AERO CINEMA's omission might seem typical of its staff's (and their audience's) not-yet outgrown notions of German shock 'n' awe.  

Therefore, the upcoming: "Italian Secret Projects" book will be the one device to remedy these shortcomings.  Apparently, AERO FAN's splendid Italian/English editorship never saw fit to issue any 'mini-serie' monograph about this particular Ambrosini project (as well as some other advanced projects): likely contributing, at least indirectly, to this continuing permissive ignorance about them - a more-enlightened AERO CINEMA series might see fit to remedy?  Fortunately, Chris Dunning's stunning new and re-issued subject-books arrived (just it time!) to provide the very incentive to 'anchor' (and re-invigorate!) these promises for Anglo-American audiences, and their desiring authors, alike.  Peace.

Robert
 

Offline prolific1

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2010, 10:41:34 pm »
To Messrs. Pelzig and Skybolt,

If you need any artistic contributions to your book...be sure to give me a ring.
Windows/PCs/anything Microsoft sucks.

Offline archipeppe

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2010, 11:30:40 pm »
To Messrs. Pelzig and Skybolt,

If you need any artistic contributions to your book...be sure to give me a ring.

The same by my side.....


Offline Skybolt

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2010, 01:06:45 am »
Offers aknowledged. BTW, the SS.4 was included in a series of artcles on Stefanutti's projects in Aerofan circa 1985-8. ANd was covered in the Mini-Ali d'Italia book on Stefanutti's light fighters. BTW, the SS.4 suffered from big structural problems.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2010, 01:10:06 am by Skybolt »

Offline AeroFranz

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2010, 11:43:37 am »
Good stuff in one of the "Dimensione Cielo" - both on the SS.4 and SS.2 - but you probably know that ;)
All modern aircraft have four dimensions: span, length, height and politics.   TSR.2 got the first three right - Sir Sydney Camm

Offline archipeppe

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2010, 11:44:38 am »
If you're interested I'm working on a three-views of Aerfer Leone.

Offline Sundog

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2010, 04:20:31 pm »
BTW, the SS.4 suffered from big structural problems.


Wow, that's the first I've heard that. Granted, I've been able to find very little on the project besides what has been posted on this forums. Without being intrusive or asking for the article, can you offer a brief explanation to what the structural problem was? Was the main spar too weak, the skin too thin, or some combination of just bad design? I take it this was the reason for the crash?

Offline AeroFranz

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2010, 10:31:59 pm »
from "dimensione cielo #2"

The investigation ascertained that the SS.4 lost an aileron due to vibrations. The engine was mounted on the airframe itself (I guess without dampening elements in between), and a contributing factor was an incorrect installation of the aileron itself.
All modern aircraft have four dimensions: span, length, height and politics.   TSR.2 got the first three right - Sir Sydney Camm

Offline Circumspect

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2010, 09:51:10 pm »
Re: Piaggio P.23R
To: Messrs. "prolific1" and "archipeppe"

Perhaps a stunning test of your respective (perhaps-rival!) capabilities would be fittingly unveiled in any 'real-life' color-graphics of this strange machine (both multi-view and isometric).  I believe the whole thing was 'fire-engine' red! perhaps the largest aeroplane ever to sport this color?  If there was ever (to be) a 'show-stopper' in a (hypothetical) 'all-Italian' airshow, this P.23R would do it.

I told this story to Giorgio Apostolo: suggesting a fast-seller for an Ali d Italia Mini Serie idea.  He kindly mailed me some privately-made (merely B & W) photos of this 'firebird' - but that wasn't my point.  Can you just imagine the scene: if I strolled into some IPMS-convention - with a (scratchbuilt) 1/72 Piaggio P.23R, and set it on a model-table!

Interestingly, both Piaggio aircraft (P.23R & P.108B) were pictured-together (as small crude penciled half-tone rear 3/4 views: 7 o'clock-positions) in: "FLIGHT" (a prominent British periodical), issue: February 22, 1940, p. 180.  Apparently (5-months before the Battle of Britain was to start), the editors expected both aircraft to shortly enter service, concomitantly.

My own feelings about the P.23R?  I think Piaggio miserably failed its potential by inadequate engine-development (but that 'shortcoming' was relatively ubiquitous throughout the entire Italian aero-engine community).  With turbo-superchargers, the P.23R would have been a strategic-reconnaissance aircraft of the highest order (w/a little-more wingspan, a small-forward ventral-gondola for observation & cameras, and NOT fire-engine red, of course!)

Anyway, do either of you (after reckoning this sizable-aircraft in fire-engine red) accept the challenge?
(Methinks a P23R cover-page would sell the whole-book, at one glance.  I'm serious!)

Cheers




Offline archipeppe

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2010, 01:19:07 am »
I will look forward for some more detailed infos about the P-23R.....  ;)

Offline thunderwarrior

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2010, 01:22:21 am »
Era ora !!!!!

 ;)

Offline Caravellarella

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2010, 01:54:51 am »
Does either Author have an Agent? Does the Publisher know the Work is being discussed or promoted this way on this board without the Publisher's participation?

Just a thought......

Terry (Caravellarella)
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I can scarcely contain my indifference......
Maybe it's MAYBELLINE......
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Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2010, 01:30:57 pm »
Terry:

Both myself and Skybolt are under contract by Ian Allan Publishing to write the Italian secret project book.

As for the discussion on the book, our editor is very much aware we discuss the book on this forum (as are many of Ian Allan's titles). In part, this is for promotion but also because we value feedback, suggestions, and input by the membership here. And, of course, constructive critique of the final work once released.

Cheers,

Ed


Does either Author have an Agent? Does the Publisher know the Work is being discussed or promoted this way on this board without the Publisher's participation?

Just a thought......

Terry (Caravellarella)

Offline Circumspect

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2010, 08:00:49 pm »
To All,

Chris Dunning's recently updated "Courage Alone" (as with his more recent "Regia Aeronautica: The Italian Air Forces 1923-1945") will likely remain peerless in telling English readers the complete operational histories of all wartime Italian air forces: at last, within the finality of these two books!  The latter seems a layman's prelude to the former (requiring much greater reading patience!) but a nice short intro to the overall 'participation-mystique' of the era.  However, the author chose not to be a 'technocrat' in either book, perhaps with interim 'consequences' for some aspirants of Mr Dyer's upcoming book.

One searches in vain for a single 'specification-window' (for any aircraft) citing an airspeed, rate-of-climb, time-to-climb, altitude, range, et al.  Ditto any dimensionality, weights, any descriptions of armaments, bomb-loads, etc.  (None, even incidentally within the text!)  Unlike most 'aeroplane' books (especially within the UK-publication traditions, i.e., PUTNAM and most British periodicals), which tabulate 'specs' galore but give only brief 'hatches' of operational highlights: these two special books honor a thoroughgoing logistical, geographical, and mission/results perspective, from beginning to end, but matching its remarkable 'forest-and-tree' minutiae also in its carefully-selected photos/captions and color profiles (mostly side only, but a few top views also).  But, what does all this have to do with: "Italian Secret Projects" in the future?

For a novice: neither book instills sufficient feel of 'contemporary' performance (or armament) that could anticipate the next desired step, as it were: 400mph and a 40,000ft-ceiling were impossible entering WWII, hardly so by mid-war.  To get the full import of something like: "Secret Italian Projects" one ought to be (a priori) familiar with already contemporaneous Italian aircraft states-of-art (with a fair measure of their oppositional aircraft, as well).  In fact, no single in-print tomb (technically describing 'all' Italian aircraft) exists today, and nothing on the horizon, unless PUTNAM will reverse their declination to Rene Francillon, long ago.  The only remedy promising to (sufficiently?) 'prerequisite' the aspirant-reader to Mr Dyer's upcoming project still remains an OOP book published 47 years ago: "Italian Civil and Military Aircraft 1930-45" by Jonathan Thompson and Aero Publishers (neither extant today).   

Therefore, I still recommend this ancient tomb (unsurpassed as the only English-language single volume ever made) as the best preparatory reading for: "Italian Secret Projects" and often available (used) on AMAZON, in 'good' condition.  (Especially, all of yous frequenting this particular subject hangout; no excuses!)

Robert





Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2010, 04:52:55 am »
I will agree that Jonathan Thompson's book is well worth the find (which, luckily, I was able to given how long it has been out of print) and should make a nice companion book to ours. Skybolt and I have selected some of the more interesting and diverse Italian aircraft, both military and civilian, to include in our secret project work with current and as much data as can be had. It won't include every project, however (which may be saved for another volume, sales depending) so Thompson's book can fill any gaps in the meantime.

Cheers!



The only remedy promising to (sufficiently?) 'prerequisite' the aspirant-reader to Mr Dyer's upcoming project still remains an OOP book published 47 years ago: "Italian Civil and Military Aircraft 1930-45" by Jonathan Thompson and Aero Publishers (neither extant today).   

Therefore, I still recommend this ancient tomb (unsurpassed as the only English-language single volume ever made) as the best preparatory reading for: "Italian Secret Projects" and often available (used) on AMAZON, in 'good' condition.  (Especially, all of yous frequenting this particular subject hangout; no excuses!)

Robert






Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2010, 04:55:53 am »
The SS.3 and SS.4 are included in the book.  ;D

Cheers,

Ed



All in all, quite an informative and revelatory video short-subject by AERO CINEMA, with color-graphics to boot.  However, its complete omission of any passing mention of Ambrosini's S.S.4 seems unforgivable.  This Italian canard sported state-of-art high-performance just as commensurate to its time (1939: including full tactical-weapons potential), as any of the other canards this video covered.  AERO CINEMA's omission might seem typical of its staff's (and their audience's) not-yet outgrown notions of German shock 'n' awe.  

Offline Maveric

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2010, 01:49:05 pm »
We wait for this book... :o :-*
I see you on the dark side of the moon.

Offline Skybolt

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2010, 02:00:17 pm »
It is worth waiting, I assure you all...  ;)

Offline Circumspect

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2010, 07:57:15 pm »
Hikoki1946 and Skybolt:  (Granted, it will be worth waiting for.)  But (as an engineer once myself), no device make sense, except as postured against issued 'specifications' beforehand, whether they were sensible or not! Of course, your reader (any reader) should have already gleaned the 'specs' (from your text) before confronting the subject-aircraft.  But I also recommend: 'grouping' all your 'candidate' aircraft-ideas, together (like downward branches-of-a-tree) if they issued from the same 'common' specifications that sanctioned them, for comparison's sake!  (I already know all about the P.108. But what did its 'competitors' look like?  What was the 'common' specs to all of them?)  In other words: all 'candidate' aircraft - issuing from the same Ministry Request For Proposal - should be  the subject of a single chapter?  So, instead of (alphabetically) by parent-company name: define each chapter around the competitive specification and the 'candidates' that issued forth, together.





Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2010, 08:17:34 am »
Circumspect:

While I certainly see your logic in such a book layout, for our particular title, I don't think it would work well. We are pulling some of the more fantastic and interesting Italian designs across a span of 28 years, both military and civilian, so, with picking and choosing various specific aircraft from the spectrum of designs available, it wouldn't fit well with the formula you laid out. Depending on the text, other aircraft are mentioned or discussed to give context and basis. For example, with the Reggiane RE 2005 SF (or the Re.2005R source depending), it was prudent to discuss the Re.2005 itself and what led to its design to give the reader an understanding of the aircraft, why it was considered to use the Re.2005 and install a thermojet in it, and also enlighten the reader on the conflicts for resources the various aircraft producers had.

Your design would work well if the book was a comprehensive treatment of all experimental aircraft but the size restrictions of our book (both page count and word count) required us to pick and choose and provide in-depth detail for the aircraft we chose. Nevertheless, it won't fail to disappoint!

Regards,

Ed



Hikoki1946 and Skybolt:  (Granted, it will be worth waiting for.)  But (as an engineer once myself), no device make sense, except as postured against issued 'specifications' beforehand, whether they were sensible or not! Of course, your reader (any reader) should have already gleaned the 'specs' (from your text) before confronting the subject-aircraft.  But I also recommend: 'grouping' all your 'candidate' aircraft-ideas, together (like downward branches-of-a-tree) if they issued from the same 'common' specifications that sanctioned them, for comparison's sake!  (I already know all about the P.108. But what did its 'competitors' look like?  What was the 'common' specs to all of them?)  In other words: all 'candidate' aircraft - issuing from the same Ministry Request For Proposal - should be  the subject of a single chapter?  So, instead of (alphabetically) by parent-company name: define each chapter around the competitive specification and the 'candidates' that issued forth, together.






Offline Skybolt

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2010, 09:33:12 am »
There will probably be a short introduction (or Appendix, like in other SP volumes) on competitions giving rise to some of the designs. Problem is that not all the competitions' specs have survived (actualy, only a few), and moreover some designs seem to spring out of nowhere. This has led some historians to speculate on unknown requirements etc, but this often led to lump together projects distant in time. Example: there isn't a single sherd of documents saying that the twin fuselage fighter projects of late war were drawn to some official requirement, as has often been stated. On the contrary, there is proof (actually, hint) of the opposite. The MC.205 Bifusoliera was for example sketched on point request of General Ilari directly to Macchi, and went nowhere in few days. The CA.380 Corsaro was drawn probably on request, but for a different one than others twin fuselage (Italian Mosquito, I dubbed it "Zanzara"). Maybe G.58 and SM.92 are related, but almost surely Re.2005 Bifusoliera isn't related. And SM.92 isn't a derivative of the SM.91, the design of SM.92 was frozen BEFORE the SM.91 as flown was. Actually, when SM.92 was named, the designation SM.91 was still used internaly at Savoia for a dive bomber project. Reconstructing the history of ISP from late 1941 to 1944 is really a matter of sheer chronological reconstruction.

Offline foiling

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2010, 05:48:55 am »
Looking forward to it; keep inspired by the responses you're getting.

Offline Circumspect

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2010, 01:35:20 pm »
Depending on how much page-space you have, some intro-chapters and appendices might be in order: aero engines/powerplants (both available and anticipated).  Ditto any key biographies, brief descriptions industrial structuring, esp. R & D capabilities et al.  No aircraft can ever be better than its engine. Furthermore, wind-tunnels and test-sites require prolonged sustenance to investment, equipage, personnel and pedagogy.  (As for powerplants, my impressions are of an indigenous aero engine industry that was, unfortunately, 'driven' by airframe requirements (rather than the other way around in America!)  As for the Volta 'high-speed' conference (1935), I have yet to hear of 'reactions' to this conference from indigenous Italian engineers (except maybe Campini), and from any curious gov/industrial officials. 

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2011, 12:57:17 pm »
Just a short update. The manuscript for the book goes into the publisher this coming March. Publication is due sometime in 2012.

Just to note, despite the news some of you may have heard about Ian Allan downsizing and streamlining their book titles, they have informed me that this book will proceed to publication.

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2011, 01:08:38 pm »
I seem to have been remiss in listing out the aircraft which are slated to appear in the book. They include:

Adamoli-Cattani fighter
Ambrosini SS.3
Ambrosini SS.4
Bellomo M.B.902
Beltrame Colibri
Bestetti Nardi BN.1
Bestetti BN.2
Bestetti BN.3
Bestetti BN.4
Breda Zappata BZ.308
Bugatti Model 100
Campini thermojet fighter and bomber
Caproni Campini N.1/N.2
Caproni Ca 60 Noviplano
Caproni Ca.183bis
Caproni Ca.380
Caproni-Vizzola F.6Z
Ciro Lamanna "Tutt Ala CL" or BWB bomber
D'Ascanio D'AT3 helicopter
Giovanni Pegna flying wing seaplane
IMAM Ro.67
Jona J.6
Jona J.10
Lombardi (SAIMAN) LB.2
Macchi C.205 Bifusoliera
Magni RR
Piaggio P.7
Piaggio P.23R
Piaggio P.50
Piaggio P.119
Piaggio P.127
Piaggio P.130
Piana-Canova all-wing planes
Reggiane Re.2005R and Re.2005 twin-fuselage designs
Reggaiane "Re.2007"
S.A.I. Ambrosini  A.R.
SAI S-404
Savoia-Marchetti S.65
Savoia-Marchetti SM.91
Savoia-Marchetti SM.92
Stipa-Caproni
Caproni Ca.161

Skybolt, co-author of the book, has a few more and of course, contents are subject to change.

Offline AeroFranz

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2011, 03:19:22 pm »
(Drool)  ;)
All modern aircraft have four dimensions: span, length, height and politics.   TSR.2 got the first three right - Sir Sydney Camm

Offline airman

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2011, 03:44:05 pm »
mmhhmmm ,and the others ?  ??? ???
well, i hope will be only the first volume !  :)
writers , bloggers , content-curators ,  music composer and passionate of militaria and uchronia

Offline Circumspect

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2011, 09:20:01 pm »
WHOA! Great book so far, but here's what's still missing (WRIT-LARGE):

1. Nothing on those Ambrosini 'light-weight' fighter series? How about (at least) some honorable-mention to its finality: 403 "Dardo?"
2. Only one (1) Breda? How 'bout that formidable dive-bomber: B.A.201(?) It flew!  Also, why-not some mention of Zappata's: BZ.301 (long-range bomber), BZ.302 (twin-fighter), especially: BZ.303 (twin night-fighter)?
3. Nothing on C.A.N.T.(C.R.D.A.) projects? How 'bout their (monster) Z.511 seaplane? (it flew!) and that Z.1014 bomber-project?
4. Nothing on Fiat projects? Well, that Br.26 (proposal) was a sure aerodynamic-improvement over any Br.20/20bis. And, why-not a quick look at those 'controprop' ideas (on those 'early' G.55 configurations) to say nothing of that 'monster' Cr.44(!)
5. A whole-lot of (your) Piaggio P.(projects) are missing, especially: P.133 (and that's just too obvious)!
6. Nothing on Savoia-Marchetti projects?(!) You're not serious about leaving-out that (monster) SM.95, are you? (I mean the 'real' SM.95, the one that would have competed w/the Z.511 for a Trans-Atlantic mission.)
7. And, what about that Umbra MB.902(?)
8. BTW, some mention should be made on the '6'-series fighters: Fiat G.56, Reggiane Re.206, right?

(CARRY-ON!)

Offline Arjen

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2011, 02:18:35 am »
Quote
...Bugatti Model 100...
A flying Bugatti. Cool.

Offline Skybolt

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2011, 03:07:20 am »
Ok, folks, if ALL ISP wouild have been included, our mandated word count would have gone through the roof... Anyway, some addition:
SM-93 will be in:  it flew and it is rather well known, BUT the development phase had some really WEIRD possibilities.... never seen before ANYWHERE, I assure you.
CR-44 is a possibility, and some more info has emerged (on the engine) since my coverage of that in the last issue of Aerofan, but there is absolutely NOTHING on the purpose of that project, its actual submission and so on. Probably it was a multipurpose fighter, but there are no docs on it (still locked in the remote storage of the FIAT archives).
SM-95B (for bomber)... may be included if I'll be able to pare down my word count. Little more infos emerged after my coverage of the type in Aerofan issue 99, notably on type of in-line engines intended for the advanced version: DB-601Es. Anyway, the Alfa 128 version flew and was converted as a transport after the war.
BZ-30X, yes... could be there, derivatives of CANT Z-1018, but you'll be suprised to learn how LITTLE is really known. Breda archives were ruthlessly destroyed in 1950. They even scraped the glass negatives of the photografic archives to gather the little silver still there....
Ditto for Piaggio projects, but the ones that are in will have some surprises, for example a previously unknown configuration of P-119. And the P-127 is a co-protagonist of the cover art....
MB-902 is there (is classed under Bellomo, the name of the designer that was from Guidonia, and Aeronautica Umbra was contracted to build but wasn't enthusiastic to do, angular remote transmission shafts, anyone?), the REAL info on that could fill a column of text... there is the mistery of Alfa 1902, but another column at most (though it would give the opportunity to speak of Alfa 1101 engine).
"6" series, yes, could be, but see first line. They were G-56, Re-2006 and MC-206 AND MC-207.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2011, 03:10:55 am by Skybolt »

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2011, 05:48:08 am »
As Skybolt said, the book has a limited page and word count which demands that we, as authors, be selective in what we include in the debut Italian Secret Projects publication. It simply cannot be all-inclusive and we understand that some may be disappointed that their x-plane(s) of interest was not included.

The selection process followed the formula I used for my Japanese Secret Projects book. Only the most interesting, novel, and in some cases, bizarre, aircraft were chosen. If it looked boring, it probably didn't make it. The main reason for this was to highlight the full gambit of Italian aeronautical thinking and accomplishment and bring it to the reader under one set of covers.

But fear not. If the book is a success, which I know it will be, the possibility of a second volume is very much real. It happened with my Japanese Secret Project book. Support for the title made a second volume a reality (due in 2013).


WHOA! Great book so far, but here's what's still missing (WRIT-LARGE):

1. Nothing on those Ambrosini 'light-weight' fighter series? How about (at least) some honorable-mention to its finality: 403 "Dardo?"
2. Only one (1) Breda? How 'bout that formidable dive-bomber: B.A.201(?) It flew!  Also, why-not some mention of Zappata's: BZ.301 (long-range bomber), BZ.302 (twin-fighter), especially: BZ.303 (twin night-fighter)?
3. Nothing on C.A.N.T.(C.R.D.A.) projects? How 'bout their (monster) Z.511 seaplane? (it flew!) and that Z.1014 bomber-project?
4. Nothing on Fiat projects? Well, that Br.26 (proposal) was a sure aerodynamic-improvement over any Br.20/20bis. And, why-not a quick look at those 'controprop' ideas (on those 'early' G.55 configurations) to say nothing of that 'monster' Cr.44(!)
5. A whole-lot of (your) Piaggio P.(projects) are missing, especially: P.133 (and that's just too obvious)!
6. Nothing on Savoia-Marchetti projects?(!) You're not serious about leaving-out that (monster) SM.95, are you? (I mean the 'real' SM.95, the one that would have competed w/the Z.511 for a Trans-Atlantic mission.)
7. And, what about that Umbra MB.902(?)
8. BTW, some mention should be made on the '6'-series fighters: Fiat G.56, Reggiane Re.206, right?

(CARRY-ON!)


Offline robunos

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2011, 07:42:50 am »
Quote
A flying Bugatti. Cool.

see here :-

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1100.0/highlight,bugatti.html



cheers,
         Robin.
Where ARE the Daleks when you need them......

Offline Arjen

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #45 on: January 28, 2011, 07:46:55 am »
Like I said. Cooooool. Thanks  :)

Offline lark

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #46 on: January 28, 2011, 11:34:41 am »
Sky.. &  Hikoki,

Mouthwatering list... :P
Can't hardly wait.

Success.


Offline gatoraptor

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #47 on: January 28, 2011, 07:14:14 pm »
Remember: even though Ettore Bugatti was born in Italy, he moved to France and did ALL of his work there.  He, his cars and his aircraft are universally considered to be FRENCH.

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #48 on: January 29, 2011, 06:07:22 am »
I am quite aware that Bugatti was, in the end, a French citizen. I debated on whether or not to include the Bugatti Model 100. But he was Italian born and thus I felt that it was representative of his Italian heritage to be included with the other Italian aeronautical pioneers, regardless of what flag he ultimately wore on his sleeve.

Recently, in preparing the book for final turn-in and in seeking to be at our under our word count (since, at present, we are over), I discussed with my co-author about dropping the Model 100 but he disagreed and thought the Model 100 was a fascinating design which needed to remain.

Cheers,

Ed

Remember: even though Ettore Bugatti was born in Italy, he moved to France and did ALL of his work there.  He, his cars and his aircraft are universally considered to be FRENCH.

Offline Arjen

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #49 on: January 29, 2011, 07:02:32 am »
Quote
But he was Italian born and thus I felt that it was representative of his Italian heritage to be included with the other Italian aeronautical pioneers, regardless of what flag he ultimately wore on his sleeve.
In that case you might include the designs produced by Bartini in the Soviet Union as well. I am in no way complaining you are including the Bugatti 100. I agree, it is a fascinating design, but it would not be out of place in a volume on French Secret Projects.

So. When's that coming - as though you aren't busy enough? In the meantime, I am most eagerly awaiting publication of Italian Secret Projects. Bugatti 100 included  ;D

Offline AeroFranz

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #50 on: January 29, 2011, 08:18:55 am »
I agree in principle. However, the Bartini designs are covered in other books of the 'Secret projects' series- I'd rather get as many airplanes as possible and avoid duplication, even at the cost of coherence  :)
All modern aircraft have four dimensions: span, length, height and politics.   TSR.2 got the first three right - Sir Sydney Camm

Offline gatoraptor

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #51 on: January 29, 2011, 09:56:25 am »
I am quite aware that Bugatti was, in the end, a French citizen. I debated on whether or not to include the Bugatti Model 100. But he was Italian born and thus I felt that it was representative of his Italian heritage to be included with the other Italian aeronautical pioneers, regardless of what flag he ultimately wore on his sleeve.

Recently, in preparing the book for final turn-in and in seeking to be at our under our word count (since, at present, we are over), I discussed with my co-author about dropping the Model 100 but he disagreed and thought the Model 100 was a fascinating design which needed to remain.

Cheers,

Ed

While I am very much looking forward to this book, I must respectfully disagree with you on this.  I agree that the Bugatti is a fascinating concept, but, IMO, it is entirely out of place in a book dealing with Italian projects, expecially if its inclusion means omitting other content which is definitively Italian.  I don't know if there would be enough material to merit a book on French Secret Projects, but if so, that is where this design belongs.  (And every mention of Bugatti's automobiles that I have ever seen has considered them to be French designs.  Bugatti's Italian birth is universally discounted.  And, like Bugatti's cars, the model 100 is always illustrated in French blue.)

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #52 on: January 29, 2011, 11:56:57 am »
You make a compelling argument against including the Model 100 in the book and in considering it, I'll discuss it with my co-author and see what he thinks on the topic in light of your comments. At worst, its removal will make it a easier task to come in on target for word count. At best, it may allow inclusion of another purely Italian aircraft.

As for a French secret projects book, I am aware of one being discussed for post-1945 French projects. I myself put together a proposal for a pre- and WW2 French secret project book which has not been taken up at this time by any publisher. But, who knows what the future may hold.

Cheers,

Ed

I am quite aware that Bugatti was, in the end, a French citizen. I debated on whether or not to include the Bugatti Model 100. But he was Italian born and thus I felt that it was representative of his Italian heritage to be included with the other Italian aeronautical pioneers, regardless of what flag he ultimately wore on his sleeve.

Recently, in preparing the book for final turn-in and in seeking to be at our under our word count (since, at present, we are over), I discussed with my co-author about dropping the Model 100 but he disagreed and thought the Model 100 was a fascinating design which needed to remain.

Cheers,

Ed

While I am very much looking forward to this book, I must respectfully disagree with you on this.  I agree that the Bugatti is a fascinating concept, but, IMO, it is entirely out of place in a book dealing with Italian projects, expecially if its inclusion means omitting other content which is definitively Italian.  I don't know if there would be enough material to merit a book on French Secret Projects, but if so, that is where this design belongs.  (And every mention of Bugatti's automobiles that I have ever seen has considered them to be French designs.  Bugatti's Italian birth is universally discounted.  And, like Bugatti's cars, the model 100 is always illustrated in French blue.)

Offline gatoraptor

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #53 on: January 29, 2011, 03:07:54 pm »
As for a French secret projects book, I am aware of one being discussed for post-1945 French projects. I myself put together a proposal for a pre- and WW2 French secret project book which has not been taken up at this time by any publisher. But, who knows what the future may hold.

Cheers,

Ed
Would there be enough material for two French books?  Considering that, unlike the other major combatants, their aircraft industry was nonexistent through most of WW II, I would think that one book might suffice for the entire history of French aviation.  But whichever, one or two books, I'll be interested.....

(I'd like to see the French book also cover developments of French designs that may have taken place in other countries, such as the ultimate Swiss version of the Morane-Saulnier 406, the D-3803.)

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #54 on: January 30, 2011, 09:45:28 am »
The list provided below was a sampling off my French secret projects proposal. Currently, it sits with two publishers.

Mignet HM-280
Delanne 160 fighter
CAPRA R-90 twin-hull flying boat (Roger Robert 1942 design)
MATRA R-130 ramjet aircraft
Fauvel AV-31 flying wing transport
Albessard 'Triavion'
Alliet-Larivière 'Allar' 4
Arsenal Air Delanne 10C-2 two-seat fighter
Arsenal VB-10 (and Arsenal VB.15) fighter
Arsenal VG-70 (1948 jet using Junkers Jumo 004)
Bassou FB 31 'Rubis'
Besson MB-11 quadraplane flying boat
Blériot XXV canard/pusher observation plane
Blériot XXXIII canard/pusher recreational plane
Blériot Bl-125 airliner
Bloch MB-81 ambulance aircraft
Aile volante Bonnel experimental aircraft with circular wing
Breguet-Dorand 'Gyroplane' helicopter (1933)
Carmier-Arnoux 'Simplex' racer
Caudron C.670 light bomber
Dewoitine D-33 'Trait d'union' record breaker
Dewoitine D-750 torpedo bomber
Gastambide-Levavasseur variable aircraft (1919)
Papin Rouilly Gyroptère
Riffard RM-1 type RDP rocket interceptor (1917)
Chappedelaine Gyroptère
Fauvel flying wing designs (1929-1943)
Maurice Roy aerial torpedo
Dorand VTOL Mailplane
ANF-Les Mureaux Bn 4 night bomber (based on the Italian Stipa designs)
Edouard Albert assault fighter
Gourdou G11 C-1 variable fighter
Breguet transocean helicopter (1936)
SNCASE SE 500 twin-engine bomber
Georges Litvinenko Track Laying Wing fighter
Kolko ACA-5
Riffard Machine D jet project (1941)
Riffard Tilt-Rotor project
Roger Robert twin-engine, twin-boom aircraft
Roger Robert flying wing (1942)
Dorand G.II/G20 anti-submarine helicopter
Gérin 'Varivol' variable aircraft
Payen Pa22/1R ramjet aircraft
Payen Pa-59 "Aldebaran" VTOL
Chauviere Gyroptere (1927)
Marmonier tilt rotor design (1935)
Margoulis tilt rotor triplane (1922)
Andre Melin flying boat (1913)
Leduc 0.10 ramjet
Levasseur PL.8 "L'Oiseau Blanc"
Levasseur PL 201 twin-boom float plane
Lioré et Olivier LeO-48 technology demonstrator (1941)
Loire 210 seaplane fighter
Loire 301 recce aircraft
Makhonine Mak-10 variable aircraft
SNCAC NC.2001 "Abeille" helicopter (1946)
Morane-Saulnier MS.470 (1944 trainer prototype under Vichy gov't)
Nieuport-Delage NiD-941 tailess, pusher-prop sport plane (1934)
Payen Pa.112 fighter
Payen P.321 heavy fighter
S.A.B. (Bordelaise) AB-21 four-engine heavy bomber
Salmson-Béchereau SB-3bis racer
S.C.A.N. 20 seaplane (prototype under Vichy gov't)
S.F.C.A. Maillet 21 sport/passenger plane (1935)
S.N.C.A.C. NC-130 high-altitude military research aircraft (1939)
SNCAC NC.1070/1071  naval bomber (1947)
S.N.C.A.O. CAO-700 four-engine bomber (1940)
S.N.C.A.O. CAO-200 fighter
S.N.C.A.S.E. SE-200 six-engine transport flying boat
S.N.C.A.S.E. SE-700 autogyro (1945)
Hanriot H.110/H.115 fighter (1934)
S.R.A.P. T-7 transport w/ reverse biplaneform
Tampier 'Avion automobile' flying car (1921)
Schmitt variable incidence biplane (1913)

As for the post-WW2 to present French project book, last I saw the proposal (it was not my own), it was pretty substantial.

Cheers,

Ed

Would there be enough material for two French books?  Considering that, unlike the other major combatants, their aircraft industry was nonexistent through most of WW II, I would think that one book might suffice for the entire history of French aviation.  But whichever, one or two books, I'll be interested.....

(I'd like to see the French book also cover developments of French designs that may have taken place in other countries, such as the ultimate Swiss version of the Morane-Saulnier 406, the D-3803.)

Offline Skybolt

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #55 on: January 31, 2011, 07:25:27 am »
Well, during the WW2, the French designers produced a LOT of projects, if not to keep the workers busy (but that was the same for German ones...). Just have a look to the Cuny's book on Breguet for confirmation. And if you go down to 1945 included....

Offline Circumspect

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #56 on: February 16, 2011, 01:23:02 pm »
Messrs. Hikoki1946 and Skybolt,

Needless to say, your book's Dedication-page (Italian Secret Projects) must recognize the two (most deserving!) predecessors: Giorgio Apostolo and Jonathan Thompson.

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #57 on: February 17, 2011, 05:31:38 am »
Actually, Giorgio Apostolo is involved with the Italian Secret Project book. While not a writer for the book (myself and Skybolt are), he has assisted with fact checking and review of the chapters for accuracy and he is also generously providing photographs and imagery for the book. Thus, his name will be seen on the cover as one of the co-creators of the book. As for Mr. Thompson, his works have been used as resources and will feature in the credits and bibliography.

Cheers,

Ed

Messrs. Hikoki1946 and Skybolt,

Needless to say, your book's Dedication-page (Italian Secret Projects) must recognize the two (most deserving!) predecessors: Giorgio Apostolo and Jonathan Thompson.

Offline hesham

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #58 on: February 17, 2011, 07:52:45 am »
Hi,

there is also many unknown old designs;


such as Ambrosini SAI-25 fighter,SAI-8 recce flying boat,SAI-9 recce bomber,
SAI-503 fighter,Breda Ba.92 & Ba.93 trainers,BZ.401 light recce bomber
seaplane,BZ.408 float version of BZ.308,CANSA FC.11 trainer,FC.14 developed
from FC.12,CANT Z.1003 land version of Z.506C,Z.1017 torpedo bomber,
Z.510 recce float bomber,CMASA BS.12 four engined seaplane,CMASA
J.S.54 flying boat,Macchi MC.203 recce seaplane,MC.300 fighter,
Piaggio P.25 biplane,P.110 recce seaplane and Umbra AUT.45 bomber.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 03:35:52 pm by hesham »

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #59 on: February 17, 2011, 11:21:00 am »
Hesham:

Page constraints limit the number of aircraft we can discuss and so we had to pick and choose which to include in the debut book and have the ability to give a comprehensive history for each. We could have crammed as many as we could but that would have limited each plane to a short blurb and specs which would be a disservice to those seeking complete historical information.

If the debut Italian Secret Projects book proves a success, I'm sure the publisher will consider a second volume.

Cheers,

Ed


Hi,

there is also many unknown old designs;such as Ambrosini SAI-25 fighter,
SAI-8 recce flying boat,SAI-9 recce bomber,SAI-503 fighter,Breda
Ba.92 & Ba.93 trainers,BZ.401 light recce bomber seaplane,BZ.408
float version of BZ.308,CANSA FC.11 trainer,FC.14 developed from
FC.12,CANT Z.1003 land version of Z.506C,Z.1017 torpedo bomber,
Z.510 recce float bomber,CMASA BS.12 four engined seaplane,CMASA
J.S.54 flying boat,Macchi MC.203 recce seaplane,MC.300 fighter,
Piaggio P.25 biplane,P.110 recce seaplane and Umbra AUT.45 bomber.

Offline hesham

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #60 on: February 18, 2011, 05:03:17 am »
Yes Hikoki,

but we must consider that,the more projects means more selling for
the book.

Offline AeroFranz

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #61 on: February 18, 2011, 07:56:22 am »
If the debut Italian Secret Projects book proves a success, I'm sure the publisher will consider a second volume.

I think you guys are on the right track. I certainly hope there will be a second volume to afford you the possibility of treating additional aircraft at length.
In bocca al lupo!  ;D
All modern aircraft have four dimensions: span, length, height and politics.   TSR.2 got the first three right - Sir Sydney Camm

Offline Skybolt

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #62 on: February 18, 2011, 09:43:22 am »
Hopefully, there will be a second tome, but surely will not include the MC.300, for the very simple reason that it never existed a project sporting that designation. Normaly the MC.300 spurious progressive is assigned to the Mc.205 Bifusoliera. For more on this see here: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,5420.msg43245.html#msg43245 and here http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2411.msg20201.html#msg20201and the link there included. The mythical existence of an MC.300 is naturally due to the fact that an MC.301 DID exist (one of the 1938-39 Caccia Combattimento competition tenders). No one knows WHY Macchi decided to start the "300" series form 301, but so it was. BTW, the proponents of the MC.205 Bifusoliera = MC.300 theory fail consistently to explain why a mid-1943 project  would have been assigned an earlier progressive than a 1939 project. There are cases of much later progressives assigned to aircrafts that are near contemporary, but the MC.300 designation simply doesn't make sense. Moreover, working from analogy with things done by other companies, like Savoia (the progression S.55, S.66, S.77, SM.155 and SM.166, in which the successive twin-hull seaplanes were initially designated at 11 numerals progession, and then at 111 numerals) I would have expected an MC.305 designation (the 300 series was originally devoted to multi-engine airplanes). But this is academical, as Mr.Tyrell said.

Offline foiling

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #63 on: February 19, 2011, 02:43:07 am »
I love the idea of a book (or two) on French aircaft projects.

Offline Maveric

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #64 on: February 19, 2011, 10:40:11 am »
Yes foiling, I´ll wait also for news from french projects.
I see you on the dark side of the moon.

Offline Deino

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #65 on: February 20, 2011, 04:32:50 am »
I love the idea of a book (or two) on French aircaft projects.

Me too ! ... besides that will this "Italian S. P." book be in a similar way to Tony's books ??

Deino
« Last Edit: February 20, 2011, 04:38:52 am by Deino »
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
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Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #66 on: February 20, 2011, 04:42:08 am »
Well, I'm working on at least getting a French secret project book for pre- and WW2 designs into print. Proposals are out there but no bites, yet.

I love the idea of a book (or two) on French aircaft projects.

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #67 on: February 20, 2011, 04:43:16 am »
Deino:

The Italian secret project book will follow the same format as previous secret project books from Midland.

Cheers,

Ed


I love the idea of a book (or two) on French aircaft projects.

Me too ! ... besides that will this "Italian S. P." book be in a similar way to Tony's books ??

Deino

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #68 on: March 07, 2011, 08:14:23 am »
Bartini was not actually Italian. He was Austro-Hungarian (today, his birthplace is in Croatia). He did study in Italy but by birth, he was not Italian. He did, however, get mention in the Italian Secret Projects book as his 1957 A-57 seaplane bomber design was one of the only designs I could find which came somewhat close in scope to Pegna's flying wing seaplane bomber though the A-57 was a delta-winged design rather than a flying wing or BWB concept. Still, it was the nearest I could locate to Pegna's overall idea which was not wholly conventional. If anyone knows of a design which is closer.... ;D

As for when, the book is currently slated for a early 2013 release and will follow the standard Midland secret project book format.

Myself and Skybolt will be turning in the final manuscript and imagery for the book this month.

Cheers,

Ed

Quote
But he was Italian born and thus I felt that it was representative of his Italian heritage to be included with the other Italian aeronautical pioneers, regardless of what flag he ultimately wore on his sleeve.
In that case you might include the designs produced by Bartini in the Soviet Union as well. I am in no way complaining you are including the Bugatti 100. I agree, it is a fascinating design, but it would not be out of place in a volume on French Secret Projects.

So. When's that coming - as though you aren't busy enough? In the meantime, I am most eagerly awaiting publication of Italian Secret Projects. Bugatti 100 included  ;D


Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #69 on: March 07, 2011, 08:26:48 am »
I don't disagree!  ;D

But, we only had approximately 160 pages to deal with, to include indexes, forward, prefaces, etc. Just my portion of the manuscript accounted for 87 pages of raw text, without formatting. And I only discussed about half of the aircraft in the book. So, 160 pages goes fast. True, the triple column and font formatting found in Midland's secret project books lowers the page count but add in the photos and/or graphics and you rise up in page count again. Also keep in mind that there is a word count cap.

We wanted to avoid cramming in as many projects as possible into the pages which, by consequence, would limit the text information to short, brief (and dry) paragraphs and limiting the photographs to one or two. The history of the planes chosen is too rich to cut short.

We are sure the success of this book will be the catalyst for more.  ;D

Cheers!


Yes Hikoki,

but we must consider that,the more projects means more selling for
the book.

Offline Skybolt

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #70 on: March 07, 2011, 09:39:22 am »
Actually, I'm managing to reinstate a couple or paragraphs on some projects that I thought I'd had to cut: for example the additional Italian "Mosquito" clones....

Offline Skybolt

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #71 on: March 13, 2011, 10:48:22 am »

Offline JC Carbonel

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #72 on: June 15, 2011, 01:20:30 pm »
The post-war French secret project (FSP) books are my job. I also tried to interest the publisher in beginning with the thirties, but only post-1945 projects were voted "in". There should be two books, one about fighters and the other about everything else, mostly bombers but also flying saucers, flying jeeps, spaceplanes, attack helos (I hope) etc...

JCC

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #73 on: June 15, 2011, 11:15:39 pm »
The post-war French secret project (FSP) books are my job. ...

I would pre-order ! Jean Cuny did a great job, but there really is the need for an update,
as quite a lot of material has come to light in the meantime. Would be good, if all those types,
that aren't that glamorous (trainers, transports) could be mentioned in depth, too, but
probably that's a question of demand and I'm afraid, commercial expectations may be
against it. Nevertheless, good success !
 
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Arjen

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #74 on: June 16, 2011, 10:10:29 am »
Quote
I would pre-order !
Same here.

Offline JC Carbonel

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #75 on: June 16, 2011, 10:23:30 am »
Trainers, transports will probably get a limited presence in the FSP books. I already had to fight to get helicopters in!

JCC

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #76 on: July 11, 2011, 09:00:09 am »
I wonder why this is. I also tried to interest two publishers with French projects prior and up to 1945 and no takers. To me, with post-1945 projects being worked out, it would be the perfect bookend for such a work.

Ah, well. Publishers have to go with what they think will sell.

Cheers,

Ed


The post-war French secret project (FSP) books are my job. I also tried to interest the publisher in beginning with the thirties, but only post-1945 projects were voted "in". There should be two books, one about fighters and the other about everything else, mostly bombers but also flying saucers, flying jeeps, spaceplanes, attack helos (I hope) etc...

JCC

Offline JC Carbonel

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #77 on: July 11, 2011, 11:33:27 am »
I have had a series of articles in Air Magazine about mostly pre-WW1 / WW1 not-really-flying machines and most I got were complaints about "why talk about aircraft that never flew"...

subjects evoked :
French : Filippi helicopter (n°42), Papin-Rouilly Gyroptère (n°30), Blériot VTOLs (n°38) , Damblanc & Lacoin's Alérion (n°47); Félix Faure's autovolant helicopter (N°46); the Vaugean-Gargulio airship (N°45), Chappedelaine's Gyraptère (n°40), French pre-WW1 disc-shaped airship projects (n°36)
US : Floating Islands (N°52); Perry's helicopter (N°32); Hewitt's helicopter (n°33)
Austro-Hungary : WW1 helicopters (n°48)
British : Porter's flying machines (N°39)

I have many more in storage but it is really difficult to pass through an editor who initially requested "built" aircraft and now seems to want "flying" aircraft.

JCC



Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #78 on: July 13, 2011, 06:03:26 am »
I still don't get it. Look at all the books on the the Luftwaffe projects and the vast amount of them never went past the paper plan stage. In my own book on Japanese x-planes, 26 of the discussed designs never got past the paper or mock-up stage.

Seems silly that people would not want to read about French x-planes, built or not. I'll keep at it. If I have a breakthrough, we should team up.  ;D

Cheers,

Ed


I have had a series of articles in Air Magazine about mostly pre-WW1 / WW1 not-really-flying machines and most I got were complaints about "why talk about aircraft that never flew"...

subjects evoked :
French : Filippi helicopter (n°42), Papin-Rouilly Gyroptère (n°30), Blériot VTOLs (n°38) , Damblanc & Lacoin's Alérion (n°47); Félix Faure's autovolant helicopter (N°46); the Vaugean-Gargulio airship (N°45), Chappedelaine's Gyraptère (n°40), French pre-WW1 disc-shaped airship projects (n°36)
US : Floating Islands (N°52); Perry's helicopter (N°32); Hewitt's helicopter (n°33)
Austro-Hungary : WW1 helicopters (n°48)
British : Porter's flying machines (N°39)

I have many more in storage but it is really difficult to pass through an editor who initially requested "built" aircraft and now seems to want "flying" aircraft.

JCC

Offline JC Carbonel

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #79 on: July 13, 2011, 07:29:52 am »
I believe people want to read about what they know and can relate to. WW2 and the nazis they can relate to it... so "alternate" designs are OK. Things like the Papin-Rouilly chopper, the Chappedelaine machine or the Vaugean-Garguilio airship go through the roof on the weirdness scale but they never had a chance to participate in a war (even an "alternate" one) and they don't have names who mean something to a lot of people like Messerschmitt or Lockheed....
So they are more difficult to sell.

Airfix people used to say "no gun, no sales" and Heller people said "a well known manufacturer and a well-known pilot, that's assured sales".

Here we have obscure names at a time when the challenge was first to take-off and land ok. Bombs and machine-guns were a long way off even for thirties' projects. So these designs don't have aggresiveness/predator appeal (loads/equipments are often not even mentionned in contemporary documents even when the textual part refers to a possible military use). Later on, the challenge was more on military ability, but no longer on flying.

It is my feeling that the FSP series of books focus on the fifities-sixties because that was the Cold War period. So everything in them can be pictured in Cold war scenarios.

That's why pre-WW2 projects and prototypes are difficult to sell. Hey ! you don't see much on pre-WW1 German aircraft as well! I had a recent talk with Mr Opdycke who wrote the excellent book on pre-WW1 French aircraft and he told me the publisher had envisionned doing a series of "pre-WW1" books. But only the "British" pre-WW1 book appeared.

But don't worry I have a project with a publisher regarding early designs. I shall let you know when the contract is signed .

JCC

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #80 on: August 23, 2011, 12:08:22 pm »
Just a small update on ISP. Material for the book is still being turned into Midland which has set the release date of the book sometime into 2013. Still, the delay has meant that new data and information is getting worked into the text, so, in that sense, it is a good thing.

So, stay tuned.  ;D

Offline gatoraptor

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #81 on: August 23, 2011, 06:10:23 pm »
Airfix people used to say "no gun, no sales" and Heller people said "a well known manufacturer and a well-known pilot, that's assured sales".
JCC
Speaking of Heller, and this is a bit off-topic for this thread, is there any chance that your book on the Heller Musee range of kits will be issued in an English-language edition by Histoire & Collections?  I'm sure there is a market for the book in English, and I will order one immediately if it is published that way.  But I will not buy a French-language edition under any circumstance.
 
(BTW, I am enjoying the Matchbox book - in English, of course.)

Offline JC Carbonel

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #82 on: August 24, 2011, 01:32:30 am »
Off - topic : Heller book

the Heller books are considered to be of French interest only by Histoire & Collection so not translated (actually in view of the poor quality of the translation, I think the next one H&C wants to do in English, I'll do it in English first and let them translate...into French)
So if there is a perceived need for translation of the Heller books, this should be brought to the attention of Casemate (the H&C agent in UK) so that they could tell so to H&C.

Thank you for the kind words about the Matchbox book.

Note to the moderators : perhaps it would be wise to separate the "French secret projects" thread from the "Italian secret projects" thread ?

JCC

Offline Skybolt

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #83 on: August 24, 2011, 08:27:11 am »
I'm late, I'm late.....
White Rabbit


Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #84 on: August 24, 2011, 12:42:26 pm »
Maybe so but from what I've seen, worth the wait.  ;D


I'm late, I'm late.....
White Rabbit

Offline royabulgaf

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #85 on: August 24, 2011, 03:29:39 pm »
JCC, I think having separate threads would be a good idea.  I am not familiar with the "out there" projects you mentioned, but I think of some of the ones in Modelstories.  It seems to me that some of these projects were not only unbuilt, but scientifically impossible as well.  For pre-WWII, this can be a problem.  While currently there are about only a dozen or so entities that can design and build a fighter aircraft, small outfits such as Martin-Baker, etc could create buildable projects and be somewhat financially sound.  The problem is separating these outfits from the Stavattis of the day.  I like to see the unbuilt projects as much as anyone, but perhaps a cutoff point be proposals from serious people that were given serious consideration by the appropriate ministry?

Offline JC Carbonel

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #86 on: August 25, 2011, 12:23:01 am »
Hello Royalbulgaf !

basically I should keep with established aircraft-building companies. But that does not mean that silly stuff will be totally deleted. Some big names in industry did write silly proposals from time to time....

JCC

Offline hesham

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #87 on: October 28, 2011, 03:52:04 pm »
Hi,

there is also many unknown old designs;

such as Ambrosini SAI-25 fighter,SAI-8 recce flying boat,SAI-9 recce bomber,
SAI-503 fighter,Breda Ba.92 & Ba.93 trainers,BZ.401 light recce bomber
seaplane,BZ.408 float version of BZ.308,CANSA FC.11 trainer,FC.14 developed
from FC.12,CANT Z.1003 land version of Z.506C,Z.1017 torpedo bomber,
Z.510 recce float bomber,CMASA BS.12 four engined seaplane,CMASA
J.S.54 flying boat,Macchi MC.203 recce seaplane,MC.300 fighter,
Piaggio P.25 biplane,P.110 recce seaplane and Umbra AUT.45 bomber.


Also;


Ambrosini SAI-504 fighter,Breda Ba.67 dive bomber,Ba.94 recce,Ba.99
bomber,Ba.100 fighter,Ba.202 attack aircraft,Ba.204 fighter & Ba.210
developed from Ba.201,CANSA CT-24,CANT Z.510 recce seaplane,Fiat
CR.23,CR.35,CR.44,CR.50,CR.55,BR.26,BR.30,BR.5,R.5,R.23 & R.25,
Macchi M.31,MC.91,MC.97 & MC.301,Piaggio P.117,Savioa-Marchetti
SM.96,SM.97 and SM.99.

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #88 on: March 14, 2012, 07:29:43 am »
All,


I come as the bearer of bad news. Unfortunately, the book has run into a difficulty in terms of the content being completed. The situation at present is that the publisher is going to review what material was received and if it is worth continuing with.


Once I hear back from the publisher, I'll be sure to update here.


Cheers,


Ed

Offline Deino

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #89 on: March 14, 2012, 09:16:33 am »
All,


I come as the bearer of bad news. Unfortunately, the book has run into a difficulty in terms of the content being completed. The situation at present is that the publisher is going to review what material was received and if it is worth continuing with.


Once I hear back from the publisher, I'll be sure to update here.


Cheers,


Ed

Hi Ed, that's very sad to hear !  :-[ ... but just one question: is this "review" only related to Your book or a general reviewdone by Ian Allen for all current "projects" ?

Deino
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.
...
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
-------------------------------------------------
W.H.Auden (1945)

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #90 on: March 14, 2012, 09:46:32 am »

I can't speak for other books through Ian Allan. It is common knowledge that they are in some dire straights. This isn't the reason for the review of Italian Secret Projects, though. Also, the editorship at Ian Allan has assured me that the sequel to Japanese Secret Projects will be published.


In this book's case, it is a matter of content not being delivered on time and the subsequent delay which has landed the book on the rocks.


There may yet be hope but I don't want to tip my hand just yet.


Cheers,


Ed







Hi Ed, that's very sad to hear !  :-[ ... but just one question: is this "review" only related to Your book or a general reviewdone by Ian Allen for all current "projects" ?

Deino

Offline Circumspect

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #91 on: April 30, 2012, 12:32:26 pm »
Well, it's certainly NOT the case of: "Too many cooks spoil the stew" (truly, the two best cooks conceivable are making it!) rather: "Too many ingredients spoil the stew?"   :-\ You and SKYBOLT may have to jettison some 'ballast' to get the balloon off the ground?  (Not my viewpoint at all, but the publisher?)  cheers

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #92 on: May 08, 2012, 12:35:56 pm »

It isn't so much as too much ballast but a question of the promised work not materializing. If the book runs as it is now with what we have, it honestly would not fit into Midland's "Secret Projects" series. Or if it is made to fit, it would delay production even more than it has been.


If Ian Allan/Midland decides to cancel the book and focus on the second Japanese secret project book currently underway, there may yet be a home elsewhere for the Italian x-plane publication.


Cheers,


Ed







Well, it's certainly NOT the case of: "Too many cooks spoil the stew" (truly, the two best cooks conceivable are making it!) rather: "Too many ingredients spoil the stew?"   :-\ You and SKYBOLT may have to jettison some 'ballast' to get the balloon off the ground?  (Not my viewpoint at all, but the publisher?)  cheers

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #93 on: May 08, 2012, 03:04:19 pm »
Isn't it rather a case of "two many courses raise the bill"?!?  ;D

Offline Circumspect

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #94 on: May 08, 2012, 05:41:09 pm »
Forget MIDLAND (w/this Italian project): try Schiffer Books(USA).  Schiffer Books (as typical with US publishers) is more sloppy with their technical edification/formatting (than UK publishers) but give you more 'play-room' or 'fluff-room' for your content (but they'll leave more to you to discipline the presentation & proofreading).  However, for these reasons, Schiffer Books get 'uneven' AMAZON-evaluations (at best)! MIDLAND/Ian Allen books - never do.  Frankly, how many 'Yankee' aviation-publishers are there (compared with UK publishers) really trusted for technical-presentations (rather than just warstory-belching yarns and hanger-chummytalk)?  Wasn't Schiffer Books' recent picture-book (on the Regia Aeronautica) an example of just that?  (I reccommend Schiffer Books with caution.)

BTW, your second (follow-up) volume to Japanese Secret Projects presumes to already fit into their formatting-style: stay with them of course!   (cheers)

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #95 on: May 09, 2012, 02:35:50 am »

It sure does that! My first book, Japanese Secret Projects, ended up being thousands of words over the contracted amount which did create a re-billing of the book in so far as production costs.  ;D

Isn't it rather a case of "two many courses raise the bill"?!?  ;D

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #96 on: May 09, 2012, 02:38:11 am »

Midland holds the rights to the book (by contract), so, I'm not able to shop it around. Only if they decide to scrap the book would I be able to. But I appreciate your insight.  ;D

Forget MIDLAND (w/this Italian project): try Schiffer Books(USA).

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #97 on: May 24, 2012, 11:54:34 am »
 ;D  Some good news! Things are back on track with the book and the remainder of the material should be ready to go in the next few months.  ;D

Offline Skybolt

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #98 on: May 24, 2012, 01:19:42 pm »
Actually Ed means that me myself am back on track...  ;) ;D

Offline AeroFranz

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #99 on: May 24, 2012, 02:20:31 pm »
Welcome news all around  ;)
All modern aircraft have four dimensions: span, length, height and politics.   TSR.2 got the first three right - Sir Sydney Camm

Offline Circumspect

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #100 on: May 24, 2012, 07:33:43 pm »
Good persistence and cooperation (by all parties), at the very least.  Sometimes the best dinners take longest to simmer and digest, but with patient industry (without ever needing to force it). Sometimes, it also helps to cooperate with some already preconfigured meals to-go.  Often enough, one good thing at a time, is best.  (Cheerios)

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #101 on: May 25, 2012, 05:11:44 am »
All material is expected to be in by the close of September 2012. Given the time it takes to compile and edit the work into the final product and print it, release is slated for the Fall of 2013.  ;D

Offline lark

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #102 on: May 25, 2012, 05:14:54 am »
Welcome back Marco !

Offline Nick Sumner

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #103 on: February 01, 2013, 03:27:57 am »
I wonder if there is any update on this book? Is it still on course for an autumn release date? It is one of the new books I am most looking forward to in 2013!

Offline lark

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #104 on: February 01, 2013, 06:31:28 am »
Skybolt told me he's still working on the book...

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #105 on: February 07, 2013, 05:47:28 pm »
Skybolt has just a little bit left to get to the publisher and it should all be in their hands very soon.  :D

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #106 on: March 02, 2013, 01:20:37 am »
Good news!  ;D

Offline ov-101

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #107 on: September 03, 2013, 06:42:26 pm »
Can you tell us some news about the book?

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #108 on: September 05, 2013, 12:59:15 pm »
Can you tell us some news about the book?

Seconded!

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #109 on: September 12, 2013, 06:19:09 am »
Nothing?

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #110 on: September 14, 2013, 12:47:49 pm »
Quote
Hi All.
Having read the questions re Italian Secret Projects I thought I had better tell you what I know.
 
Firstly, I understand that Marco (Skybolt) is not in good health - kidney problems I believe. You will have noted that he has not posted on the forum for some time! In fact a while back I e-mailed him and had no reply, so I have assumed that he is quite restricted in what he can do just now. Comments received from Ian Allan back this up (Marco - if you are reading this do please get in touch with me if you can - we all hope that you are on the mend!!).
 
As regards the book, I get the impression that most of the text has been handed over but there are still a lot of illustrations and drawings to come. In other words there is not enough to put the book together, so at the moment it is on hold. I hope Marco can resume work on it at some stage because I know Ian Allan are very keen to do it.
 
Very best wishes to you all. Sorry I am not in touch more often.
Tony Buttler.
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline AeroFranz

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #111 on: September 16, 2013, 07:05:54 am »
Thanks for the update. Very best wishes to Marco.
All modern aircraft have four dimensions: span, length, height and politics.   TSR.2 got the first three right - Sir Sydney Camm

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #112 on: September 16, 2013, 05:13:06 pm »
Get well soon Marco!

Offline gatoraptor

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #113 on: December 06, 2013, 04:20:41 am »
Any updates?  Schedule?

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #114 on: December 24, 2013, 03:14:26 am »
The book has been in hiatus for some time and has nearly been canceled. However, this month, work is underway to revive it and get it moving to completion. It has missed the 2014 release schedule so don't be looking for it until 2015 sometime. But this gives the parties involved time to complete the project and get it in print.

Wish I had better news but there is a very good glimmer of hope.

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #115 on: December 24, 2013, 10:46:52 am »
Hey, at least it is still alive and moving forward. ;D

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #116 on: December 28, 2013, 10:52:27 am »
Hey, at least it is still alive and moving forward. ;D

Seconded!

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #117 on: May 14, 2014, 04:06:12 pm »
Any news on this book?

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #118 on: May 22, 2014, 03:48:51 am »
Not much right now. I've recently been working on Japanese Secret Projects 2 and the first completed book draft of it will be sent to me sometime in June for my review. Once that is done and the book is finalized, I can start in with ISP in earnest.

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #119 on: May 27, 2014, 07:01:59 am »
Thanks for the update!

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #120 on: June 17, 2014, 03:36:34 am »
Some of you may know that Crécy Publishing has acquired Ian Allan Publishing's Midland and Classic imprints. I've yet to hear from Crécy Publishing about what they plan to do with Italian Secret Projects but once I hear from them, I'll keep everyone informed.

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #121 on: June 17, 2014, 03:11:20 pm »
Some of you may know that Crécy Publishing has acquired Ian Allan Publishing's Midland and Classic imprints. I've yet to hear from Crécy Publishing about what they plan to do with Italian Secret Projects but once I hear from them, I'll keep everyone informed.

Thanks for keep us informed. I hope they publish it.

Offline gatoraptor

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #122 on: June 17, 2014, 06:43:02 pm »
If you go to Crecy's website, their "New Books" link, usually fairly brief, has no fewer than 524 entries, most of which are "new" only to Crecy.  In addition to what has been mentioned, the Aviolibri books from Italy are also included.
 
http://www.crecy.co.uk/products_new.php

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #123 on: October 01, 2014, 03:18:52 am »
So, I mentioned Italian Secret Projects (ISP) to Crécy and right now, they are working to get published those Midland titles that were at or near completion. But, they are interested in ISP (as the contract for it was purchased by Crécy) and we will be discussing the book further and try to get it into print.

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #124 on: October 01, 2014, 04:43:18 am »
Good News!

Offline AeroFranz

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #125 on: October 01, 2014, 07:49:22 am »
Fantastic, thanks for the update :)
All modern aircraft have four dimensions: span, length, height and politics.   TSR.2 got the first three right - Sir Sydney Camm

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #126 on: October 01, 2014, 03:18:57 pm »
Great news!!! Thanks a lot for the update.

Offline blackkite

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #127 on: October 02, 2014, 11:27:55 pm »
It must be a amazing book. ;)

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #128 on: October 08, 2014, 09:30:57 am »
Well, it is a topic not too often done in English, so, that seems to be the elixir keeping the book project alive.

It must be a amazing book. ;)

Offline Circumspect

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #129 on: November 07, 2014, 03:26:07 am »
It looks like Crecy is a far more focused and sympathetic publisher to aviation subjects; unfortunately, this 'transfer' can only but defer this project -  :( for yet a few more years (in the dugout).

Offline pathology_doc

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #130 on: November 07, 2014, 06:03:50 am »
With Britain, the US, the postwar USSR, Japan and (hopefully soon) Italy fixed up, I can only guess French Secret Projects must be next in line - although whether it could be split into bomber and fighter lines would depend on what timespan the putative author chose to cover and that in turn depends on whether a lot of the paperwork for pre-war designs managed to survive WW2.


We are fortunate w.r.t. Secret Projects books thus far in that both the British and the Germans were obsessive record-keepers par excellence (inasmuch as enemy bombing allowed) and that the United States has never sustained a serious bombing raid on its continental territory. The big surprise has been just how much the fall of the Iron Curtain and USSR has shown us what the Soviets were doing.


Getting back to ISP, though, I'm very much looking forward to it (for very biased ethnic-origin reasons  ;D  [size=78%]).[/size]

Offline royabulgaf

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #131 on: November 08, 2014, 03:55:45 pm »
I know there wasn't much in the way of Italian post-WWII projects, but I would be interested in some of the transitional aircraft as the various Italian companies fought for their corporate existence.  I would also like to see the post-war projects of the various smaller European nations, on both sides of the curtain. 

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #132 on: November 11, 2014, 06:13:26 am »
Well, Crecy is receptive to it. I mean, even Midland kept it alive despite it all. So, I have a good feeling that once the docket gets cleared of former Midland books that were at or near publication following the sale, ISP will get a look and see where it stands. With the material in hand, it proceeded with, there isn't too more more left to fill the holes.

As for immediate post-war aircraft designs, this was one of the motivations for my self-published Anschließend die Sendereihe series.

Offline gatoraptor

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #133 on: November 11, 2014, 09:01:33 am »
As for immediate post-war aircraft designs, this was one of the motivations for my self-published Anschließend die Sendereihe series.
Speaking of which, when are we going to see new volumes in that series?  It has been awhile.....

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #134 on: November 11, 2014, 12:43:16 pm »
Not too sure. Right now, the work for the "big box" publishers comes first. Asides from keeping ISP alive, I've one book in the works for Fonthill Media and a possible second. So, alas, my own independent works have to come second.


As for immediate post-war aircraft designs, this was one of the motivations for my self-published Anschließend die Sendereihe series.
Speaking of which, when are we going to see new volumes in that series?  It has been awhile.....

Offline ov-101

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #135 on: June 08, 2015, 06:37:22 am »
Any news?

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #136 on: September 06, 2015, 06:10:29 pm »
Bump-

Any news? We are looking forward to seeing an Italian secret projects  ;)
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Offline eliteZelota

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #137 on: October 16, 2015, 09:47:44 am »
Hello!
Are there some little news? How's the work going?
I'd love to have this book in my bookshelf! :) Considering there's no other work on Italian Projects!

Offline blackkite

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #138 on: October 16, 2015, 03:36:53 pm »
Bump-

Any news? We are looking forward to seeing an Italian secret projects  ;)
Me,too. :D

Offline Nick Sumner

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #139 on: January 05, 2016, 10:33:11 am »
Anything?

Offline eliteZelota

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #140 on: March 28, 2016, 04:58:40 am »
Hi,
I'd like to know what's the status of this book considering that the last update/news we have is from 2 years and 5 months ago.
Is there a little hope?

Offline Schneiderman

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #141 on: March 29, 2016, 12:27:19 pm »
May be time to remove the 'sticky' on this until there is some positive news on publication date

Offline CiTrus90

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #142 on: June 27, 2016, 06:29:26 am »
I would be really thrilled to see an Italian Secret Projects book!

I don't know the reasons behind why this effort seems to have stalled, but if there is anything I can contribute or help with to get this back on track, ranging from the basic writing/translating/proof-reading to ilustrations, please feel free to contact me.

It's a sadly missed chapter that ought to reach the light of the day!

Wishing you all the best!

Regards.
Regards.

L. Landino

Offline airman

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #143 on: December 21, 2016, 10:51:58 am »
Update us if there are good news !  B)
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Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #144 on: December 21, 2016, 12:18:44 pm »
Marco Comelli, the author, has not logged onto the forum since March 1st this year. Not a good sign.
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
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Offline gatoraptor

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #145 on: October 12, 2017, 09:05:35 am »
Any updates on this topic?

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #146 on: February 20, 2019, 06:20:44 pm »
Greetings! So, it has been some time without word about ISP (Italian Secret Projects) so here is a brief update. Some of you may know that Midland Publishing, an imprint of Ian Allan Publishing, was sold off to Crécy Publishing. The sale included both of my JSP books as well as ISP which at the time was still in development. The book languished in "development hell" (to borrow the screenplay/film term) for a good while. In the meantime, work continued to get done by myself and Skybolt, albeit slowly as well as photographs collected. If I had to give a percentage, the book would be about 65% completed. A cover was sourced but color profile artwork is still needed to compliment the photographs. Several chapters remain incomplete.

Crécy Publishing has recently expressed the desire to get ISP back on track and get it to print. So, in the coming weeks, I'll be putting things together to see where the book stands in terms of in-hand content and what is still needed to finish it.

Thanks for the continued support!

Offline CiTrus90

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #147 on: February 20, 2019, 11:00:07 pm »
A cover was sourced but color profile artwork is still needed to compliment the photographs. Several chapters remain incomplete.

Hi Hikoki!

I've been working with Dan Sharp, Konstantin Udalov and the late Steve Pace on providing artworks for some of their great works and, as an Italian, I'd be more than interested in lending a hand if you need help with this project.
Please, feel free to contact me anytime ;)
Regards.

L. Landino

Offline GTX

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #148 on: February 21, 2019, 01:35:39 am »
Great news.  Thanks for the update.

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #149 on: February 21, 2019, 05:02:50 am »
That IS good news!

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #150 on: February 21, 2019, 10:33:12 am »
Most excellent news as I am eagerly awaiting this title.  I've been very interested in Italian aircraft since interning at AerMacchi "way back when" (summer of 1972).

Offline AL

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #151 on: March 08, 2019, 04:30:02 pm »
Crecy is now showing it on their website.

Offline gatoraptor

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #152 on: March 08, 2019, 05:43:30 pm »
Here's the cover art at present.  Notice there is no number - evidently everything will fit in one volume.

Offline Maveric

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #153 on: March 09, 2019, 03:29:46 am »
 ::)
I see you on the dark side of the moon.

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #154 on: March 09, 2019, 04:27:13 am »
Amazing.

Offline athpilot

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #155 on: March 09, 2019, 08:27:01 am »
  B) B) B)
(waterstones.com say: Published: 30/09/2019)

Offline ninjrk

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #156 on: March 10, 2019, 06:59:18 am »
I'm glad this is coming closer to release.  I suppose its more niche than another book on Luft '46 but I'm excited for information on such an underserved area.

Offline lucamax

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #157 on: March 10, 2019, 08:53:31 am »
From an italian reader  ;D ;D ;D

Offline CiTrus90

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #158 on: March 12, 2019, 01:05:47 am »
The cover looks really nice!

P.S.
Hikoki1946 if you are reading this, I sent you a PM last month, but you haven't logged in since (?). Cheers.
Regards.

L. Landino

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #159 on: March 20, 2019, 07:18:07 am »
 B) B) B) B) 
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Offline airman

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #160 on: March 20, 2019, 07:58:46 am »
From an italian reader  ;D ;D ;D

me too  ;D ;D
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Offline Geist

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #161 on: March 20, 2019, 11:14:28 am »
The cover looks really nice!

Thank you! ;)
Check out my other works at my website, leave your comments and download the wallpapers!
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