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Author Topic: USAF/US NAVY 6th Generation Fighter Programs - F/A-XX, F-X, NGAD, PCA  (Read 768787 times)

Offline Sundog

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The intakes look more similar to them of the F-14 than F-22.

Actually, the intakes appear to be just like those on the Super Hornet, IMHO. An awesome looking design none the less.


Offline bobbymike

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Re: USAF/US NAVY 6th Generation Fighter Programs - F/A-XX, F-X, NGAD, PCA
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2009, 02:54:36 pm »
Article in the June 15, 2009 issue of Defense News magazine "Uncertain Skies for US Industrial Base". Paraphrased quote from a Lockheed executive - "There is a lot of design and development work going on......a lot of future programs people are looking at.....F/A-XX, a sixth generation Air Force fighter and a number of black programs that already have robust engineering work ongoing."

I have seen one picture of a tailless fighter dubbed "possible F/A-XX" but nothing on the other programs, anyone?
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Offline sferrin

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Re: USAF/US NAVY 6th Generation Fighter Programs - F/A-XX, F-X, NGAD, PCA
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2009, 05:12:36 pm »
Article in the June 15, 2009 issue of Defense News magazine "Uncertain Skies for US Industrial Base". Paraphrased quote from a Lockheed executive - "There is a lot of design and development work going on......a lot of future programs people are looking at.....F/A-XX, a sixth generation Air Force fighter and a number of black programs that already have robust engineering work ongoing."

I have seen one picture of a tailless fighter dubbed "possible F/A-XX" but nothing on the other programs, anyone?

Take a look at Area 51 on Google Earth.  LOTS of interesting stuff going on there.  Definitely more than just the occasional one-off.
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Offline quellish

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Re: USAF/US NAVY 6th Generation Fighter Programs - F/A-XX, F-X, NGAD, PCA
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2009, 09:59:53 pm »
Take a look at Area 51 on Google Earth.  LOTS of interesting stuff going on there.  Definitely more than just the occasional one-off.

I think what sferrin means here is that there is a lot of activity - and new construction - at Groom Lake, in support of flight test programs. Not that you can see any specific aircraft in Google Earth images.

Offline Woody

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Offline GAU-8 Avenger

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Re: USAF/US NAVY 6th Generation Fighter Programs - F/A-XX, F-X, NGAD, PCA
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2009, 08:10:42 pm »
I like it, I hope we see this thing flying someday. Yet I fear it will be killed at some point by some idiot politicians. I believe this, the F-35C, and some sort of UCAV attack aircraft along the lines of the X-47B would provide a very capable strike force in the future.

I have two comments however:
 1: The engine nozzles look a bit strange.
 2: Will the lack of rudder make it a pain in the ass to land or line up the target in a dogfight?

I don't know if Lockheed is planning anything for F/A-XX, but I would prefer to see the contract go to Boeing, seeing how Lockheed already has the F-22 and F-35.

Regarding Area 51 on Google Earth, what looks unusual there?


Offline AeroFranz

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Re: USAF/US NAVY 6th Generation Fighter Programs - F/A-XX, F-X, NGAD, PCA
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2009, 08:56:50 pm »
I have two comments however:
 1: The engine nozzles look a bit strange.
 2: Will the lack of rudder make it a pain in the ass to land or line up the target in a dogfight?

yaw control is provided by aerodynamic control surfaces on the trailing edge of the wing or more likely by thrust vectoring
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Offline donnage99

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Re: USAF/US NAVY 6th Generation Fighter Programs - F/A-XX, F-X, NGAD, PCA
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2009, 09:46:41 pm »
if you take a closer look on this pic and the one on the previous page, you notice that the exhaust nozzles are similar to the yf-23 b-2, most likely to reduce infrared signature.  One question though, is that how can you incorporate fluidic thrust vectoring with such nozzle design?

Offline elider

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Re: USAF/US NAVY 6th Generation Fighter Programs - F/A-XX, F-X, NGAD, PCA
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2009, 07:40:41 am »
Here is a pic I scanned from AFA magazine. It was accompanied by a comment that it was part of a
study to determine how small changes in a control surface, when the surface was in the engine exhaust
stream, could have significant influence on the aircraft's movement.
This was identified in an earlier SPF post on the JSF as a Northrop model.

Offline flateric

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Re: USAF/US NAVY 6th Generation Fighter Programs - F/A-XX, F-X, NGAD, PCA
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2009, 08:03:18 am »
This is McDonnell Douglas so-called 'ACWFT 1024 configuration' developed under MACAIR/AFWL "Aero Configuration/Weapons Fighter Technology" (ACWFT) program, later resurrected as Model 296-2405/2406 range under contract for LARC to determine the impact of agility-based
requirements on the design of multi-role aircraft in '92-94.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2009, 08:09:20 am by flateric »
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Offline Just call me Ray

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Re: USAF/US NAVY 6th Generation Fighter Programs - F/A-XX, F-X, NGAD, PCA
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2009, 10:30:30 am »
I like it, I hope we see this thing flying someday. Yet I fear it will be killed at some point by some idiot politicians. I believe this, the F-35C, and some sort of UCAV attack aircraft along the lines of the X-47B would provide a very capable strike force in the future.

I would maybe add a second, smaller UAV that could be launched and directed from a manned tactical aircraft.
It's a crappy self-made pic of a Lockheed Unmanned Combat Armed Rotorcraft (UCAR), BTW
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Offline SteveO

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Re: USAF/US NAVY 6th Generation Fighter Programs - F/A-XX, F-X, NGAD, PCA
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2009, 01:34:17 pm »
I thought the USN didn't like tailless deltas?

Boeing had to change the design of their JSF to include a conventional tail for the CV requirement. Always thought the X-32 design would lend itself well to the unmanned variant option, perhaps built with cheaper structural materials as a benefit of lower operating hours.

The F/A-XX looks great, in my opinion this is what the JSF should have been, a high end USN and USAF strike fighter.

The USAF low end strike fighter should have been a pure CTOL design with no CV variant and as much international cooperation as wanted. While the STOVL strike fighter could have been uncompromised by any non-STOVL requirements, the USN should have used the STOVL design if it still needed a low end strike fighter.

"What if" is great isn't it  ;D     

Offline flateric

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Re: USAF/US NAVY 6th Generation Fighter Programs - F/A-XX, F-X, NGAD, PCA
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2009, 02:00:48 pm »
I thought the USN didn't like tailless deltas?

Boeing thinks they should like tailless delta with TV.
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Offline donnage99

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Re: USAF/US NAVY 6th Generation Fighter Programs - F/A-XX, F-X, NGAD, PCA
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2009, 03:32:17 pm »
I thought the USN didn't like tailless deltas?
Technology advance! At least, that's what the contractors said.  Remember that the Navy didn't dislike delta tailless design, but that they didn't like what COMES with it.  If all the technology required matures at that time, I don't see why the Navy has a problem.  

Quote
The USAF low end strike fighter should have been a pure CTOL design with no CV variant and as much international cooperation as wanted. While the STOVL strike fighter could have been uncompromised by any non-STOVL requirements, the USN should have used the STOVL design if it still needed a low end strike fighter.

"What if" is great isn't it  ;D    
Lol, if money isn't such a decisive factor, yeah sure! ;D

Concerning the vision of 6th generation fleet, my take is that, if the navy go back to take the high-low end approach, then the high end fighter will be a single seat manned aircraft, the second seat is replaced by AI assisting the pilot.  I don't see why the future still needs a second seat.  It's a waste of space where fuel or avionics could have been.  The low end, cheaper aircraft will be unmanned.  This is what I wrote about something I read on ucar in flightglobal a while back in another thread that I think fit this nicely:

"The UCAR will take it to another level by further enhancing "reasoning skills" and "team work." The human pilot will no longer control the air vehicles, but rather participate in a cooperation with them as a team and oversee their missions from a manned helicopter.  The team of UCARs would be able to select among themselves a "leader" for the job, decide whether to avoid or engage threats to itself, or to sacrifice itself to protect the manned aircraft, or protecting friendly targets.  As the scenarios enfolding itself, they will have the ability to switch the "leader role" among themselves and replan the missions, depend on the rules of engagement.  Relay the informations it gathered back to the manned aircraft, suggest an appropriate strategy, waiting on the pilot to make the final decision.  The pilot has x amount of time to approve, or it will be automatically approved.  The pilot will talk to the unmanned vehicles, and they talk back, and go as far as to negociate with the pilot so that top priorities will precede lower ones.  Using 5 sensors, they will be able to determine concealed and disguised targets, combatants from non-combatants, etc."

The technology should be much more mature 20 years from now, since this is planned for ucar, which was supposed to be now.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2009, 04:10:14 pm by donnage99 »

Offline elider

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Re: USAF/US NAVY 6th Generation Fighter Programs - F/A-XX, F-X, NGAD, PCA
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2009, 03:46:05 pm »
 flateric: Thanks for IDing the ACWFT 1024. When I saw the Boeing F/A-XX, I immediately recalled  the pic I had scanned from AFA magazine.
I think there is a strong resemblence between the two exhaust nozzles. IIRC the AFA article also pointed out that they had realized
better-than-expected agility during the tests. Perhaps this is a manner in which the fluidic flow control can be used to gain greater
agility than with fluidic control alone. I'm probably the least qualified to make this observation, but I thought it might generate some comments.