McDonnell-Douglas Model 225 VFX (F-14 alternative)

sky105 · 12 April 2006

Hi
This McDonnell Douglas Model 225...

TinWing · 12 April 2006

Tony Buttler's VFX/FX article in the Novermber/December 2005 issue of Air Enthusisast features a similar, but less detailed, drawing of the 225 proposal.

Sky105, what is the source of your drawing?

QUANTUM1 · 14 April 2006

Another source is Francillon's book on McDonnel Douglas. There is some basic info on the design. According to Francillon, the design was judged outstanding, very close to the winning one.

Check also US patent 3, 680, 816 (dated Aug. 1, 1972). The assignee is McAir, and it does look similar. An odd feature is the downward-folding canard, which is clearly shown in the patent, and was a feature of McAir VFX (and a reason for the defeat in VFX competition?).

Does the nose look like a Phantom's, or is it my idea? Are there any sound engineering reasons for the similarity (e.g. radar with similar features, aerodynamics, etc.)?

overscan (PaulMM) · 4 August 2006

US Patent 3,680,816 McDonnell-Douglas (thanks, Quantum1)

Its for pop-up canards on a VG design, not unlike Grumman's glove vanes.

overscan (PaulMM) · 29 November 2006

Forum member EEP1A tried to post this image of the McDonnell-Douglas Model 225.

EEP1A · 29 November 2006

Hello everyone!
I happened to know this excellent site and joined few days
ago.
I have been looking for cancelled US aircraft projects for
more than 30 years as my hobby.
I looked through most of the messages in your site and
found many interesting pictures like Republic AP-75, Sikorsky AAH mock-up and
enjoyed very much.

By the way, I am a Japanese and I was encouraged to know
that non US people like Tony Buttler and Andreas Parsch
are also playing active roles in disclosing cancelled US
projects and US designation system.

I think I can contribute a little bit regarding cancelled
projects.
To begin with, I am posting a McDonnell Douglas drawing of
its VFX proposal Model 225.　(For some unknown reason, I could not upload the drawing so I asked overscan to upload for me. See previous post. Thank you overscan.)

Please enjoy!

Archibald · 29 November 2006

Welcome here! I know it sounds stupid, but this project looks like the PKA / FA (or T-50, or Sukhoi I-21...)

Mark Nankivil · 26 May 2009

Hi All -

Some photos of the McDonnell Douglas Model 225 model in the St. Louis Aviation Museum collection that match up with the post that started this thread.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

overscan (PaulMM) · 27 May 2009

Wow. Beautiful pics, Mark. Thanks for sharing!

overscan (PaulMM) · 13 June 2009

Seriously nice Model 225 artwork

robunos · 13 June 2009

Regarding the McDD model 225, that's the only low-wing VG aircraft I think I've ever seen.

Where would the main undercarriage go? Looks like the wing pivot box gets in the way. ???

cheers,
Robin.

overscan (PaulMM) · 13 June 2009

Tu-22M has low wing and VG wings.

Granted, the pivots are further outboard, but then the McDD 225 also seems to me to have larger fixed glove sections and wider spaced pivots than other VFX designs. Grumman also had a low wing VFX design, 303D.

TomS · 14 June 2009

The Su-17 also has a more or less low-mounted wing with VG. In the case of the McDD 225, the pivots would seem to be in the front part of the large gloves, with the landing gear probably located in the main fuselage near the aft end of the glove. The underside of the model shows a blank spot around that point where there is only a centerline missile.

The painting don't seem to show the VG structure very well -- there's no hint of a panel line between the fixed glove section and the pivoting outer wing section.

robunos · 14 June 2009

Tu-22M has low wing and VG wings.

DOHH!!!!!!!!..........................Got my fighter head on! ;D

The Su-17 also has a more or less low-mounted wing with VG

that counts as mid-wing for me!

Anyway, found this on page 418 of Putnam's 'McDonnell Douglas' volume 2, it shows the position of the undecarriage on the fuselage, could still do with an underside view, though.

cheers,
Robin.

Mark Nankivil · 14 June 2009

Here's a few more additional Model 225 illustrations...

Enjoy the Day! Mark

overscan (PaulMM) · 15 June 2009

robunos said:
Anyway, found this on page 418 of Putnam's 'McDonnell Douglas' volume 2, it shows the position of the undercarriage on the fuselage, could still do with an underside view, though.

cheers,
Robin.

You do realise that picture was the first post in this topic?

robunos · 15 June 2009

OOPS !!!!!!!!!!!!

That'll teach me not to bother tracking through the thread before posting! :-[ :'(

If you want an excuse, I'll say that I was tired after trying and failing to get into the Cosford airshow, eventually finding a vantge point on one of the surrounding roads, only to have my camera pack up and cause most of my pictures to come out blurred.

Anyway, back on topic, Mark Nankivill, I see that your Model 225 3-view has 'Phantom' type intakes, rather than the wedge type shown in the other illustrations.
Would this be an earlier version? Or were the intakes changed to allow the mounting of the canards shown in the other images?

Cheers,
Robin.

overscan (PaulMM) · 18 June 2009

This Feb 1969 Navy project seems to be from immediately after McDonnell-Douglas lost VFX to Grumman. Seems to be derived from Model 225. Single seat design.

Scan by Mark Nankivil.

Mark Nankivil · 14 September 2009

Greetings All -

I spent my first day as a docent over at the Greater St. Louis Air & Space Museum and had a chance to look thru a filing cabinet I had not perused before. I found a variety of photos and these two of the Model 225 wind tunnel model were mixed in with the batch.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

overscan (PaulMM) · 15 September 2009

Nice! Top one is the Model 225A with canards, bottom the 225. They are quite distinct in shape.

hesham · 15 September 2009

Hi,

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1969/1969%20-%201308.html?search=VFX

Mark Nankivil · 22 January 2010

Greetings All -

A recent find in the museum archives is this general arrangement drawing of the McDonnell Model 225A.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

Mark Nankivil · 12 February 2010

Greetings All -

A few more Model 225A related drawings from the Greater St. Louis air & Space museum archives....

Enjoy the Day! Mark

Sundog · 12 February 2010

Until the 3 view just posted by Mark above, I had never noticed the retractable/folding canards on the Model 225A. I had thought they were a control surface, but apparently they just "extended" them to move the A.C. forward for supersonic flight, in much the same manner as the glove vane on the F-14? Has anyone seen any references to their function in the 225/225A data?

overscan (PaulMM) · 13 February 2010

you obviously never read page 2 of this topic then

Relevant patent is here:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,229.msg3999.html#msg3999

Sundog · 13 February 2010

overscan said:
you obviously never read page 2 of this topic then

Relevant patent is here:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,229.msg3999.html#msg3999

Thanks, I've actually downloaded most of the pics in this thread, but I somehow missed that. Doh!

AeroFranz · 13 February 2010

Thanks to Mark for the GORGEOUS -225 drawings and cutaways. Sadly I doubt aviation manufacturers employ artists to draw like that anymore. The equivalent picture, today, would be a CAD screenshot.

Mark Nankivil · 9 March 2010

Greetings All -

Here's the SAC for the Model 225A pulled from the Performance volume of the proposal.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

AeroFranz · 9 March 2010

nice present

Thanks!

Machdiamond · 9 March 2010

Ooooh yes Mark, that is the kind of document that I really like

Many thanks,
--Luc

Talos · 9 March 2010

Mark Nankivil said:
Greetings All -

Here's the SAC for the Model 225A pulled from the Performance volume of the proposal.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

Oh, that's just what I needed for the profile drawings I'm doing for the VFX birds. Thanks! It confirms my suspicions regarding the stations and armament of the 225A, with a couple surprises (podded 20mm, centerline fuel tank, and the Phoenix layout). Do you have any other VFX documentation like that for the proposals, particularly for NR-323, the North American/Rockwell one?

overscan (PaulMM) · 12 March 2010

Mark wanted to post the Model 225A Performance Report here, enjoy it.

AeroFranz · 12 March 2010

I've got to stop posting my thanks. Mark, automatically assume a big thumbs up anytime you post anything!

The Artist · 27 March 2010

Two shots that I took today of a pair of 225 models that I'm told were used for deck spotting. These are in the collection of the Greater St. Louis Air & Space Museum along with the large design and structure model of the Model 225.

I'm posting just this tease shot of the structure model now. I have 32 additional shots that are detail shots and I'm not sure if I should launch a flood.

There is some overlap in these shots but the differences in the angles may offer different information to each viewer. Some were taken by holding the camera way over my head and guessing at the aim. The shots are from above, below and along side the model.

Should I launch a flood, of should I take detail requests and try to match a shot to the request?

overscan (PaulMM) · 28 March 2010

Whatever you think best is fine. I have no problems with you posting them all

The Artist · 28 March 2010

I've looked them over and decided to post them all. Four batches of eight pictures.

Something to note for size comparison. The white sign in the lower center of the teaser image is a standard 8.5 by 11 inch sheet. Also, that dark thing to the left in pictures 11 and 12 is a horizontal stab from a Phantom II.

The Artist · 28 March 2010

Second batch.

The Artist · 28 March 2010

Third batch.

The Artist · 28 March 2010

Last batch.

shockonlip · 28 March 2010

Thanks guys for these GREAT McDonnell 225 design photos!

Beautiful design !!

McDonnell-Douglas Model 225 VFX (F-14 alternative)

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