Register here

Author Topic: cFASTT-1 Spaceplane with SABRE Engine  (Read 9493 times)

Offline AlanDavies

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 42
cFASTT-1 Spaceplane with SABRE Engine
« on: October 28, 2013, 12:52:31 pm »
I don't think this subject has been covered before but the University of Strathclyde has set up a centre for future air space transport technology called cFASTT and their site and Facebook site have interesting information about spaceplanes,  they have designed an alternative Skylon type vehicle with SABRE engines (cFASTT-1) which looks interesting and they have a very technical pdf document which compares the two types.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 01:39:38 pm by AlanDavies »

Offline Rhinocrates

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 135
If I had all the money I've spent on drink, I'd spend it on drink.

Offline AlanDavies

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Re: cFASTT-1 Spaceplane with SABRE Engine
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2013, 02:21:56 pm »
That is the one, sorry I am not very good with attaching links. There are also some Google images of the spaceplane and the spaceplanes issue of How It Works magazine has a very good artists impression of a piloted passenger carrying version on the cover, I think this is also in the How It Works Annual Volume 4  (the current Annual).

Alan

Offline SteveO

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 325
Re: cFASTT-1 Spaceplane with SABRE Engine
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2013, 05:20:52 pm »
Interesting, not radical different. A blended wing body Skylon.

Offline Rhinocrates

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 135
Re: cFASTT-1 Spaceplane with SABRE Engine
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2013, 12:21:16 am »

Alan - just swipe the URL and paste.  I got the pdf using Chrome, which is good with pdfs.

I'm a little dubious about the chines and whatnot - they may make it a better aircraft, but the added weight will make it a worse spacecraft.   I haven't had time to read the report yet, so the tradeoffs might be worthwhile.


As a note, Reaction Engines Limited intends to only develop the engines and leave the "aerospaceframe" to others.  It seems sensible from a business point of view since they don't have the capital of, say, Boeing.  In the area of car manufacture, legendary track and sports car designer Gordon Murray (best known by his association with McLaren) has developed a city car and unique - secret - production method that he has sold to a large "interested party".


To digress, I know cars aren't planes or rockets, but as with aircraft manufacture, don't be deceived by the proliferation of badges you see. There are also only a half dozen significant corporations operating above the bespoke or cottage level as opposed to brands.  Furthermore, development of new platforms as opposed to models for mass manufacture is about as expensive as developing a new aircraft (for example, you may think that a Rolls Royce Ghost is a unique vehicle, but from an engineering perspective, it's a BMW 7-series with a few tweaks and more leather and a Seat's a Skoda, which is an Audi, which is a Volkswagen because all those brands belong to the same company - VW and it uses the same platform across the brands (The lesson is, if you want an Audi you should buy a Skoda - it's just the same and much cheaper).


This may seem odd to people used to an industry that is very "vertically integrated" from powerpoint to launchpad - i.e., design, development and manufacture are all in-house, but my background is in architecture and industrial design and it seems perfectly normal to me to see someone design something and sell or license the intellectual property to someone else who manufactures it and then claim a percentage.


Skylon is a concept, the design for SABRE is their actual product, so the vehicles that might emerge, bearing the logo of Astrium and Lockheed Martin could well be more like the Strathclyde design and/or something else.


National security interests limit technology to specific nations and corporations, but this is an arbitrary, artificial limitation - technology is based on science, and science can't be kept secret for long, and civil organisations not tied to the military and their security needs can be more nimble ... oh damn, I'm getting pompous.


Anyways...


Technology is advancing, but business is changing too.  I have no idea what will come, but maybe the above offers some hints?
If I had all the money I've spent on drink, I'd spend it on drink.

Offline bigvlada

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 369
Re: cFASTT-1 Spaceplane with SABRE Engine
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2013, 12:14:01 am »
You think Reaction Engines could have the same role the ARM does in mobile computer market?

Offline Hobbes

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 519
Re: cFASTT-1 Spaceplane with SABRE Engine
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2013, 01:47:44 am »
It'd be similar to the separation of OKBs and production plans in Russia.

RGClark

  • Guest
Re: cFASTT-1 Spaceplane with SABRE Engine
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2013, 05:18:06 am »
... In the area of car manufacture, legendary track and sports car designer Gordon Murray (best known by his association with McLaren) has developed a city car and unique - secret - production method that he has sold to a large "interested party".
...

 3D-printing of the chassis and body?  Speaking of which, would it even be possible to 3D print an entire car including engine? Imagine 3D-printing your own car.  B)

  Bob Clark

Online Dragon029

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 524
Re: cFASTT-1 Spaceplane with SABRE Engine
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2013, 06:27:08 am »
Definitely, considering that 3D printing doesn't exclude the use of any material (so long as it can be made molten).

Offline Hobbes

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 519
Re: cFASTT-1 Spaceplane with SABRE Engine
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2013, 06:44:23 am »
It's unlikely Murray's T25 production concept uses 3D printing, as it's much more expensive than current production methods for series production. For production of metals, current sintering printers don't achieve the same metal strength that casting or forging would. For plastics, I haven't seen a printer that can do fiber-reinforced plastics yet.

Current printers also have a hard time producing components that use dissimilar materials, e.g. wiring: the copper wire must be produced first and allowed to cool before you can add the insulation. 

RGClark

  • Guest
Re: cFASTT-1 Spaceplane with SABRE Engine
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2013, 07:07:28 am »
I don't think this subject has been covered before but the University of Strathclyde has set up a centre for future air space transport technology called cFASTT and their site and Facebook site have interesting information about spaceplanes,  they have designed an alternative Skylon type vehicle with SABRE engines (cFASTT-1) which looks interesting and they have a very technical pdf document which compares the two types.

 Thanks. I hadn't heard about it. The image of it reminds me of the SR-71 with those side chines:




  Bob Clark
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 07:11:00 am by RGClark »

Offline blackstar

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1630
Re: cFASTT-1 Spaceplane with SABRE Engine
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2013, 08:13:17 am »
Definitely, considering that 3D printing doesn't exclude the use of any material (so long as it can be made molten).

That's totally wrong. The range of materials that can be used in 3D printing is quite limited.

Offline sferrin

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9727
Re: cFASTT-1 Spaceplane with SABRE Engine
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2013, 08:58:00 am »
Definitely, considering that 3D printing doesn't exclude the use of any material (so long as it can be made molten).

Definitely NOT.  The day they can 3D print a functioning set of bearings I'll eat my car.
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

RGClark

  • Guest
Re: cFASTT-1 Spaceplane with SABRE Engine
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2013, 09:05:34 am »
Definitely, considering that 3D printing doesn't exclude the use of any material (so long as it can be made molten).

That's totally wrong. The range of materials that can be used in 3D printing is quite limited.

 I thought the materials had to be in powdered form. But it can be used for metals.

    Bob Clark

Online Dragon029

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 524
Re: cFASTT-1 Spaceplane with SABRE Engine
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2013, 07:44:23 pm »
Definitely NOT.  The day they can 3D print a functioning set of bearings I'll eat my car.

For ball bearings, you can still do a good part of the initial production process before handing it off to grinders / buffers, especially considering that a lot of new 3D printers work at sub-millimeter accuracy. Plus, 3D printing is merging with subtractive processes as well, which, with soft tools, could allow some decent (albeit not 100%) ball bearings.

That's totally wrong. The range of materials that can be used in 3D printing is quite limited.

I disagree; the current range of commercial 3D printing materials available today is limited, but that's purely due to commercial demand and what people are prepared to spend on something that could otherwise be done via existing specialised equipment. Extrusion printing in particular really has few limits; almost any alloy, resin, clay, etc can be used.