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Author Topic: TZoli's Warship Designs  (Read 146776 times)

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2013, 09:09:15 pm »
No problem, as we are talking about what-if. I'm just trying to create a plausible story behind it and
AFAIK 15 inch guns weren't used by the IJN. But maybe after WW I, when the German Highseas Fleet
was deployed amongst the allies, Japan got no battleship, but, after lengthy and difficult negotiations,
they were allowed to get those 15 inch guns from SMS Bayern and SMS Baden. Lying around unwanted
for a long time, they were refurbished and modernised and fitted to that ship...  ;)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2013, 12:44:59 am »
Yes 36cm and 41cm Guns were used by the Japanese but I did not wanted to make the same error as the UK by introducing a smaller calibre because of the naval treaty which clearly not in the category of the newer 41cm/16inch cannons, so I've chosen 38cm/15inch.

Though if I would choose the 35cm cannons I could probably have less issue with hull stress during a full broadside!

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2013, 01:35:10 am »
The reasoning could have been the same, as for the design of the Brazilian battleship, that later was to become
HMS Agincourt. Standardisation of ammunition was regarded as more important, than an increase of caliber and
maybe the "shot gun effect", leading to more hits and probably achieved quicker, than with fewer larger caliber
guns, would have compensated for less hitting power of a single shell.
It's all just a matter of explanation !  ;)
 
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2013, 09:57:31 am »
Probably.
But who wants to fire all guns together and wait like ages to fire another salvo when you continously fire one turret after another and giving one hell of a pounding to the enemy in the machine gun effect? :D

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2013, 11:35:40 am »
From Geoffrey Bennett "Die Skagerakschlacht" (The Battle Of Jutland) :

" ... during the whole battle HMS Agincourt showed the ambition to fire full fourteen-gun salvoes. The
sheet of flame was big enough to create the impression, that a battle cruiser had blown up ..."

But from a tactical point of view you may be right.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2013, 01:38:56 am »
Yeah that is a well known phrase (A Naval ww1 Movie about Jutland would be great showing this event!)

And now some real designs.
My incarnations for the Improved Yamato and the A-150 (Super Yamato) proposals:
The 4th and 5th sister ships of the Yamato had to be built with twin 51cm Cannons so these two drawings represents this change, one with the original 12.7cm Type 89 the other with the 10m Type 98 AA Guns:

And now my version of the A-150 with 4 twin 51cm Cannons (bit different turrets as these had time to be designed precisly for this hull), "many" 10cm AA Guns, and a larger funnel


Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2013, 02:07:58 am »
And now instead of posting all the Yamato Preliminary Turret Layouts I made a single picture showing them:

A.: 3x3 46cm Cannons all forward, Nelson Style and 41cm Armour
B.: 3x3 46cm Cannons regular, 2 forward 1 aft Style and 41cm Armour
C.: 4x2 46cm Cannons regular, 2 forward 2 aft Style and 41cm Armour
D.: 3x3 46cm or 41cm Cannons all forward, very similar to Nelson Style and 41 or 38cm Armour
E.: 2x3,1x2 46cm Cannons regular, 2 forward 1 aft Style and 41cm Armour
F.: 2x3,2x2 46cm Cannons regular, 2 forward 2 aft inverted Andrea Doria Style and 41cm Armour
G.: 2x3,1x2 46cm Cannons all forward, Nelson Style and 41 or 38cm Armour
H.: 4x3 41cm Cannons regular, 2 forward 2 aft Style and 38cm Armour

(Beware!!! Big Image!!!)
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 02:09:32 am by Tzoli »

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2013, 04:28:52 am »
Great, many thanks !
I'm not adept to the development history of the Yamato, can someone give the reason, why in
design E and F the triple turrets were superimposed to the twins ? From the standpoint of
the CG, this seems to be not ideal, I think.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #38 on: July 09, 2013, 11:01:18 am »
Great, many thanks !
I'm not adept to the development history of the Yamato, can someone give the reason, why in
design E and F the triple turrets were superimposed to the twins ? From the standpoint of
the CG, this seems to be not ideal, I think.

Probably because of the Citadel Armour I assume. Instead of a rectangle it would be more like of a trapezoid and thus smaller armour area

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2013, 12:34:42 am »
Probably because of the Citadel Armour I assume. Instead of a rectangle it would be more like of a trapezoid and thus smaller armour area

I assume, you mean, because of the smaller magazines for the twin turrets, which would be at the end of the citadel ?
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #40 on: July 10, 2013, 01:09:25 am »
Probably, I don't know how does any of the ships armour scheme looked like especially top view

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #41 on: July 12, 2013, 08:25:09 am »
Another Yamato variant but this time my idea of merging her with the British N3 Class!



Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #42 on: July 18, 2013, 10:39:25 am »
And now some fun!

A drawing inspired by three things:
The Mighty Yamato Class Battleships
The Mogami Class Light/Heavy Cruisers
And the Amagi class battleship from the game: NavyField

An idea of mixing the Yamato and the Mogami like I've seen in NavyField. So this ship was born the Maximum Yamato.Traded away the secondary guns which were the weak spots on the hull on the original Yamato and giving her two more triple 46cm Gun Turrets totalling the gun number to 15! Of course the lengthened hull the longer belt and deck armour and the two extra turrets sure given a couple of extra thousand tons and the speed decreases somewhat but who cares if you have more cannons then any other battleship afloat and those are the largest ones ever mounted? :XD: height=15

And for those who like BIG GUNS and LOTS OF EM!!
a 5 quad turreted Yamato Variant!


Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2013, 10:47:24 am »
 An idea of a modernized old Armoured Cruiser the French Waldeck-Rousseau of the Edgar Quinet class. She was launched in 1908. For this modernization I used the Algérie class Heavy Cruiser as the basis. Replaced/Removed the 14 194mm Guns with 4 twin 203mm Gun turrets, added 8 twin 100mm AA Guns, trunked the 6 funnels into 4 and a modern superstructure again from the Algérie.



Offline Peebo-Thulhu

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2013, 11:07:31 pm »
Just a question to TZoli, or any one who might know, but...

Is/Was it possible to actually produce that 25 gun monster?

Or would certain structural problems have put a limit on things?

I assume the Yamato ship that was built was the best (Perceived or other wise) compromise between what people actually wanted, what treaties and politics allowed and what budgets and time made available?

Very much cheers to all.