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Author Topic: TZoli's Warship Designs  (Read 146775 times)

Offline Tzoli

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TZoli's Warship Designs
« on: June 15, 2013, 10:57:43 am »
Hey guys!

This is my first thread in here but I regularly post ship designs at the Warship Projects Forum, so now I've decided to post them here as well.
I tend to draw/design ships which are plausible to build, or I tend to do so!

So let me start with my newest designs a modified German Admiral Hipper and P class Heavy Cruisers.

The idea behind these are the real triple 20.3cm Krupp Turret which can be found here:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,18915.0.html

So in order:
1. Original Admiral Hipper class Heavy Cruiser: 4x2 20.3cm, 6x2 10.5cm, 4x3 53.3cm Torpedoes
2. Prinz Eugen class (Improved Admiral Hipper class Heavy Cruiser): 2x3,2x2 20.3cm, 8x2 10.5cm, 4x3 53.3cm Torpedoes
3. P class (Modified P class Heavy Cruiser): 3x3 20.3cm, 7x2 10.5cm, 2x4 53.3cm Torpedoes
4. Improved P class (Modified P class Heavy Cruiser): 4x3 20.3cm, 6x2 10.5cm, 2x4 53.3cm Torpedoes
5. Original P class Big Gun Cruiser: 2x3 28cm, 2x2 15cm, 4x2 10.5cm, 2x4 53.3cm Torpedoes


And the ship number in my opinion are:
2x Admiral Hipper
2x Prinz Eugen
3x P-I
3x P-II
6x P
« Last Edit: June 16, 2013, 01:16:36 am by Tzoli »

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2013, 07:24:01 am »
And now the Nelson variant of the Bismarck but with 3x3 38cm Cannons!


What do you guys think about these?

Offline flateric

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2013, 08:00:37 am »
we think that you should go to http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php?action=forum or http://www.shipbucket.com/forums/index.php
that much more suited for your artwork
SPF devoted to REAL unbuilt and secret projects
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2013, 08:30:51 am »
This thread User's artworks contains mostly only user designed vehicles so I think it DO belongs here.
As for Shipbucket, my drawings ain't pixel ones so I won't it there

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2013, 03:26:41 am »
If designs without a real project behind are posted here, the "Theoretical and Speculative" section
may be more suitable.
BTW, comparing your alternative Bismarck design with the Nelson, I think, it would have got problems
with seakeeping, as the complete weight of the heavy artillery is placed much further forward, than
in HMS Nelson/Rodney.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2013, 12:07:41 am »
If designs without a real project behind are posted here, the "Theoretical and Speculative" section
may be more suitable.
BTW, comparing your alternative Bismarck design with the Nelson, I think, it would have got problems
with seakeeping, as the complete weight of the heavy artillery is placed much further forward, than
in HMS Nelson/Rodney.

Well my designs are mixed
There are ones which based on real designs (Tone class Light Cruiser for Example or the Australian Cockatoo design Heavy Cruiser)
or ideas of real things like my triple turreted German cruisers, or plausible design which could have been built or improved versions of original ships.

As for the Bismarck, indeed probably all forward are a bit forward, but see this:
4x2 38cm weights a bit more than 3x3 38cm (including turrets, guns and the support equipment, elevators ammo rooms etc)
so by moving the heavy machinery aft this could solve the problem but now I see that the Bismarck's Superstructure was quite long for such an arrangement!

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2013, 12:26:38 am »
By the way I've made coloured versions of my latest line drawings. Includes the german ones as well:



Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2013, 12:32:07 am »
And here is my Australian 1920's era heavy Cruiser proposal the Cockatoo island Works Design:
Difference to the original proposal that it have twin torp launchers and AA Guns and a bit different Casemate placement I've deciphed from the texts





Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2013, 03:30:50 am »
Tzoli, I've moved this thread here, not to depreciate your work, but just to reduce the danger of someone
taking your designs as actual proposals.
About the Australian heavy: It looks very much like a modified Hawkins to me. You noted, that you just modified
the proposal. So there actually was a project of that kind ?
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2013, 01:37:05 am »
Tzoli, I've moved this thread here, not to depreciate your work, but just to reduce the danger of someone
taking your designs as actual proposals.
About the Australian heavy: It looks very much like a modified Hawkins to me. You noted, that you just modified
the proposal. So there actually was a project of that kind ?

Yes there is!
I've created a topic about it here:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,19763.0.html

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2013, 01:52:05 am »
I've post these designs of mine to know your guys opinions.

So the next one is real proposal with my iteration of it.
The Proposed pre ww1 Coastal Battleship design for the Romanian navy: ('ive used the Hungarian SMS Zrínyi as the base)



The history:

Before the First World War The Romanian Navy wanted to expand it's capacity so a plan was initiated in 1912:
This called for 6 Light Cruisers of 3500ton (None begun) 12 Destroyers of 1500ton of which 4 started and only 2 arrived and one submarine. Other plans were even more unrealistic calling for a battleship of 13.000tons armed with 4-305mm, 4-203mm and 12-150mm Guns.

So I decided to draw this Romanian Battleship Proposal which I call Bucaresti Class and based on the Austro-Hungarian Radetzky class, just a bit smaller change the twin 240mm Turrets into single 203mm ones and one large single funnel instead of two smaller ones.
Information from the article from Conway's All the World Fighting ships, 1906-1921

On another forum I've been noted of the bad idea for a single large funnel but no explanation added.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 01:54:45 am by Tzoli »

Offline Antonio

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2013, 02:16:48 am »
The problem with whatif is confusion. I think a high knowledge about real historic facts is required to enjoy about whatif possibilities. When the basis for whatif are little known unbuilt projects the effort could left my mind exhausted.

Personally I'd love better to know about the original unbuilt projects...


Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2013, 02:28:50 am »
The problem with whatif is confusion. I think a high knowledge about real historic facts is required to enjoy about whatif possibilities. When the basis for whatif are little known unbuilt projects the effort could left my mind exhausted.

Personally I'd love better to know about the original unbuilt projects...

That all the text said, no drawing no exact data, just displacement and guns

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2013, 01:25:14 am »
Another pair of drawing/coloured drawing

Based on my friend's idea on an enlarged Baltimore with 4x3 8inch guns
Equipped with 4x3 8inch, 8x2 5inch and 10x4 40mm Guns (Baltimore had 3x3 8inch, 6x2 5inch and 12x4 40mm Guns)
I call her New Haven class I had used the Baltimore as a basis but introduce some changes seen on the real follow up classes like the Oregon City and Des Moines classes.



Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2013, 03:27:25 am »
On another forum I've been noted of the bad idea for a single large funnel but no explanation added.

At first glance, due to its single funnel, it looked to me, what I would expect the HMS Agammenon/Lord Nelson
to look like after a refit à la HMS Barham during the 1920s.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2013, 10:16:58 am »
On another forum I've been noted of the bad idea for a single large funnel but no explanation added.

At first glance, due to its single funnel, it looked to me, what I would expect the HMS Agammenon/Lord Nelson
to look like after a refit à la HMS Barham during the 1920s.

I don't think so, Lord nelson had 6 secondary heavy gun turrets and much bulky superstructure!


Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2013, 10:28:11 am »
And now my most beautiful BB drawing :
A Hypothetical Battleship design to follow up the Alsace class
This ship featuring 4x3 420mm (16.5 inch) and 2x3 152mm (6 inch) as main Anti shipping guns. AA Armaments consist of 10x2 100mm (4inch) Heavy AA and 18x2 37mm Light AA Guns
I call her:
Le Grand navire Cuirasse Napoléon Bonaparte
The Great Battleship Napoleon Bonaparte




« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 10:29:57 am by Tzoli »

Offline CliffyB

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2013, 03:36:21 pm »
Single funnels were generally used to clear the sky arcs for the various anti-aircraft guns resulting in less topside hamper and a in my opinion, a sleeker appearance in some cases.  The downsides of this is more internal space is required to trunk all of the exhaust vents together.  This leads to a greater chance that a hit could fill large areas of the interior with flue gases since none of the uptakes were armored in any way save for a few older ships (BBs).

I really like your designs and I hope you continue make more.  My only criticism would be to reduce your line weight.  It looks like your making these in Illustrator, am I correct?  If so I'd reduce your lines by about %50.  This would allow for more detail if you chose, as well "clean up" some of the busier areas where all of the thick lines simply merge together.

Just my two cents, keep up the designs man  B)

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2013, 12:51:12 am »
Single funnels were generally used to clear the sky arcs for the various anti-aircraft guns resulting in less topside hamper and a in my opinion, a sleeker appearance in some cases.  The downsides of this is more internal space is required to trunk all of the exhaust vents together.  This leads to a greater chance that a hit could fill large areas of the interior with flue gases since none of the uptakes were armored in any way save for a few older ships (BBs).

I really like your designs and I hope you continue make more.  My only criticism would be to reduce your line weight.  It looks like your making these in Illustrator, am I correct?  If so I'd reduce your lines by about %50.  This would allow for more detail if you chose, as well "clean up" some of the busier areas where all of the thick lines simply merge together.

Just my two cents, keep up the designs man  B)

I choose single funnel to further differenate from the Radetzky class.
No I used Paint Tool SAI for drawing and colouring these

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2013, 03:40:07 am »
New set.

These two new drawings idea came from of a what-if alternative construction plan for ww1 Era Japan
Instead of building 2-2-2 Fuso, Ise and Nagato class BB's
They would built:
2 Normal 6 turreted Fuso, 3 smaller 4 turreted Ise and 2 Nagato or,
2 Smaller 4 turreted Fuso, 4 smaller 4 turreted Ise and 2 Nagato or either
2 Smaller 4 turreted Fuso, 2 smaller 4 turreted Ise and 4 Nagato class battleships

So instead of few many turreted battleship they would have more less turreted ones.

Small Fuso:


Because of the removal of the 4th and 5th turrets the hull is shortened quite a bit. I did not delete the aft conning tower, but removed 1 pair of casemate guns and added 1 pair of AA guns.
The cause that the now 3rd turret isn't superfiring over the 4th one because I meant this to a last minute change in construction plans so no time to redesign the entire ship from scratch.

Small Ise:


Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2013, 03:49:46 am »
Let's see what if we mix an Italian Admiral's idea, one of the Preliminary design of the Richelieu and the Biggest Battleship of the World!

IJN Yamato De Feo Style!




Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2013, 03:54:13 am »
Severly limited for and aft fire, especially taking into account the blast problems
with regards to this caliber.   ;)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2013, 04:16:55 am »
Severly limited for and aft fire, especially taking into account the blast problems
with regards to this caliber.   ;)

And when does the last time a battleship fired it's guns forward and aft and not broadside???
This was the idea behind Admiral De Feo's proposal!

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2013, 11:14:20 am »
And when does the last time a battleship fired it's guns forward and aft and not broadside???

Nitpicking, I know, but ...

- Hood/POW vs Bismarck/Prinz Eugen, when the british task force, closing on to
the German ships, could just use their forward turrets

- KGV/Nelson vs Bismarck at the beginning of the final battle

- "Battle of the Surigao Strait", when Adm. Oldendorffs task force achieved a classical "crossing the T"
against the Japanese "Southern Force", led by Adm Nishimura, with the battleships Fuso and Yamashiro

In all cases ships without forward firing armament would have been "out of action" for at least a considerable
and maybe crucial time of the engagements.

To make this clear, I didn't want to critise you and not even Admiral De Feo. Actually, the idea with the main battery
concentrated amidship was old, just look at HMS Inflexible from 1892, or, even better the battleship Italia from 1885,
designed by Benedetto Brin. But you probably know about the criticism to HMS Nelson and Rodney, as they actually
had no rearward angle of fire. The Admiralty shrugged it off then, with mentioning, that "British ships won't retreat
and so need no rearward angle of fire"....    ::) But reading several examinations of the Battle of Jutland, it was mentioned,
that ships on both sides with turrets amidship (e.g. HMS Iron Duke class, or German König Klasse ) experienced reduced
broadsides due to limited arcs of fire with their mid mounted turrets. AFAIK the protection for the light AA guns of Yamato
and Musashi wasn't actually against enemy fire, but against the blast of the own heavy guns.
Nevertheless, Russian warship design owed a lot to Italian designers, so, why not Japanese ships, too ?
It's an interesting thought experiment, although I think, that experienced in combat would have proved those ideas
as not to be working as advertised.  ;)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2013, 01:33:46 am »
Well Admiral De Feo was lived in ww1 and he concluded this was the future.

Yeah your list of battles probably true but look at them:
Battle between a very small number of vessels! One is a battle between straights and islands the other is an escape battle.
Yeah sure battles would start when each ship must face front first toward the enemy and having no forward firing turrets could lead a bit of disadvantage, but during this time the ships are the least vulnerable as their profile was the smallest/thinniest!

Nelson's all forward arrangement was choosen not because UK battleships never retreat but because this was the most economical distribution of armour weight VS lenght for the limited displacement. But look at the studies which led to the O3 (Nelson):
2 forward 2 centre: M2
2 forward 1 centre: G3, I3, N3, M3
1 forward 1 centre: H3b
All Forward: E3, F3/F2 H3a
The Only traditional versions with forward and aft are: J3, K3/K2 L3/L2

In a traditional battleship battle like the battle of Jutland the all centre arrangement would be good as the thickest armour would be the shortest one too!

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2013, 07:14:18 am »
And now a bit different.
Someone on the Warships Projects forum asked how would the ww2 carriers would look like with angled flight decks, so I modified a few Japanese ones which could be built or rebuilt that way. The idea to increase the effectivitness of of the Recovery and launch of planes from these type of ships!
So here they are:

The Hiyo Class:

The Soryu Class:

The Taiho Class:

And the Shinano Class (Though maybe I overdone it a bit)


Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2013, 10:16:53 am »
This Battleship design for my friend who likes many turreted battleships so I merged the Ise and Yamato classes :)
It's more of a fun design then a possible build but still...

So this is what you get when your Father is the IJN Yamato and your Mother is the IJN Ise :D height=15
A battleship with 12 38cm (15inch) Cannons in 6 double Yamato turrets and 10 155mm Guns in 2 triple and 2 twin turrets. On a Yamato hull but with smaller hanger space and thinner armour.



Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2013, 11:23:51 am »
the IJN "Yamise" (or better "Isato" ?) could be a good What-If, maybe thinking around the 18 inch
gun design to be a complete failure. or their factory destroyed by an earth quake. To get the ship
into service quickly, older and smaller gun designs were used, although I would think of 16 inch,
like in Mutsu/Nagato, rather than 15 inch, which weren't used by the IJN, I think.

About the IJN carriers with angled decks, I'm somewhat sceptical, if these ships wouldn't have needed
a little bit more mass on the portside for balancing the overhang of the flight deck ?
I would rather expect a flight deck similar to the first conversion of HMS Eagle, 1955
(drawing from http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Components.ImageFileViewer/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles.orion/7823.layout.jpg_2D00_700x0.jpg)

- I know about the reason for the gun arrangement of Nelson/Rodney, I just thought the way the admiralty was
cloaking the criticism quite funny (if it is more, than just a legend) !

- .. and I think, ships were more vulnerable to gunfire when pointing their length to the enemy, instead of their
broadside, as finding the correct distance was more difficult, than correct azimuth ?
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2013, 12:56:08 am »
In a case of reconstruction or build from skratch the builders surely would put some extra ton steel or concrete on the other side to balance the flight deck.

Offline royabulgaf

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2013, 05:10:47 pm »
Jemiba, look at it this way:  Just assume that a dozen 15" guns and mounts were available.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2013, 09:09:15 pm »
No problem, as we are talking about what-if. I'm just trying to create a plausible story behind it and
AFAIK 15 inch guns weren't used by the IJN. But maybe after WW I, when the German Highseas Fleet
was deployed amongst the allies, Japan got no battleship, but, after lengthy and difficult negotiations,
they were allowed to get those 15 inch guns from SMS Bayern and SMS Baden. Lying around unwanted
for a long time, they were refurbished and modernised and fitted to that ship...  ;)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2013, 12:44:59 am »
Yes 36cm and 41cm Guns were used by the Japanese but I did not wanted to make the same error as the UK by introducing a smaller calibre because of the naval treaty which clearly not in the category of the newer 41cm/16inch cannons, so I've chosen 38cm/15inch.

Though if I would choose the 35cm cannons I could probably have less issue with hull stress during a full broadside!

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2013, 01:35:10 am »
The reasoning could have been the same, as for the design of the Brazilian battleship, that later was to become
HMS Agincourt. Standardisation of ammunition was regarded as more important, than an increase of caliber and
maybe the "shot gun effect", leading to more hits and probably achieved quicker, than with fewer larger caliber
guns, would have compensated for less hitting power of a single shell.
It's all just a matter of explanation !  ;)
 
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2013, 09:57:31 am »
Probably.
But who wants to fire all guns together and wait like ages to fire another salvo when you continously fire one turret after another and giving one hell of a pounding to the enemy in the machine gun effect? :D

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2013, 11:35:40 am »
From Geoffrey Bennett "Die Skagerakschlacht" (The Battle Of Jutland) :

" ... during the whole battle HMS Agincourt showed the ambition to fire full fourteen-gun salvoes. The
sheet of flame was big enough to create the impression, that a battle cruiser had blown up ..."

But from a tactical point of view you may be right.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2013, 01:38:56 am »
Yeah that is a well known phrase (A Naval ww1 Movie about Jutland would be great showing this event!)

And now some real designs.
My incarnations for the Improved Yamato and the A-150 (Super Yamato) proposals:
The 4th and 5th sister ships of the Yamato had to be built with twin 51cm Cannons so these two drawings represents this change, one with the original 12.7cm Type 89 the other with the 10m Type 98 AA Guns:

And now my version of the A-150 with 4 twin 51cm Cannons (bit different turrets as these had time to be designed precisly for this hull), "many" 10cm AA Guns, and a larger funnel


Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2013, 02:07:58 am »
And now instead of posting all the Yamato Preliminary Turret Layouts I made a single picture showing them:

A.: 3x3 46cm Cannons all forward, Nelson Style and 41cm Armour
B.: 3x3 46cm Cannons regular, 2 forward 1 aft Style and 41cm Armour
C.: 4x2 46cm Cannons regular, 2 forward 2 aft Style and 41cm Armour
D.: 3x3 46cm or 41cm Cannons all forward, very similar to Nelson Style and 41 or 38cm Armour
E.: 2x3,1x2 46cm Cannons regular, 2 forward 1 aft Style and 41cm Armour
F.: 2x3,2x2 46cm Cannons regular, 2 forward 2 aft inverted Andrea Doria Style and 41cm Armour
G.: 2x3,1x2 46cm Cannons all forward, Nelson Style and 41 or 38cm Armour
H.: 4x3 41cm Cannons regular, 2 forward 2 aft Style and 38cm Armour

(Beware!!! Big Image!!!)
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 02:09:32 am by Tzoli »

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2013, 04:28:52 am »
Great, many thanks !
I'm not adept to the development history of the Yamato, can someone give the reason, why in
design E and F the triple turrets were superimposed to the twins ? From the standpoint of
the CG, this seems to be not ideal, I think.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #38 on: July 09, 2013, 11:01:18 am »
Great, many thanks !
I'm not adept to the development history of the Yamato, can someone give the reason, why in
design E and F the triple turrets were superimposed to the twins ? From the standpoint of
the CG, this seems to be not ideal, I think.

Probably because of the Citadel Armour I assume. Instead of a rectangle it would be more like of a trapezoid and thus smaller armour area

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2013, 12:34:42 am »
Probably because of the Citadel Armour I assume. Instead of a rectangle it would be more like of a trapezoid and thus smaller armour area

I assume, you mean, because of the smaller magazines for the twin turrets, which would be at the end of the citadel ?
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #40 on: July 10, 2013, 01:09:25 am »
Probably, I don't know how does any of the ships armour scheme looked like especially top view

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #41 on: July 12, 2013, 08:25:09 am »
Another Yamato variant but this time my idea of merging her with the British N3 Class!



Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #42 on: July 18, 2013, 10:39:25 am »
And now some fun!

A drawing inspired by three things:
The Mighty Yamato Class Battleships
The Mogami Class Light/Heavy Cruisers
And the Amagi class battleship from the game: NavyField

An idea of mixing the Yamato and the Mogami like I've seen in NavyField. So this ship was born the Maximum Yamato.Traded away the secondary guns which were the weak spots on the hull on the original Yamato and giving her two more triple 46cm Gun Turrets totalling the gun number to 15! Of course the lengthened hull the longer belt and deck armour and the two extra turrets sure given a couple of extra thousand tons and the speed decreases somewhat but who cares if you have more cannons then any other battleship afloat and those are the largest ones ever mounted? :XD: height=15

And for those who like BIG GUNS and LOTS OF EM!!
a 5 quad turreted Yamato Variant!


Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2013, 10:47:24 am »
 An idea of a modernized old Armoured Cruiser the French Waldeck-Rousseau of the Edgar Quinet class. She was launched in 1908. For this modernization I used the Algérie class Heavy Cruiser as the basis. Replaced/Removed the 14 194mm Guns with 4 twin 203mm Gun turrets, added 8 twin 100mm AA Guns, trunked the 6 funnels into 4 and a modern superstructure again from the Algérie.



Offline Peebo-Thulhu

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2013, 11:07:31 pm »
Just a question to TZoli, or any one who might know, but...

Is/Was it possible to actually produce that 25 gun monster?

Or would certain structural problems have put a limit on things?

I assume the Yamato ship that was built was the best (Perceived or other wise) compromise between what people actually wanted, what treaties and politics allowed and what budgets and time made available?

Very much cheers to all.

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #45 on: July 23, 2013, 07:06:38 am »
Just a question to TZoli, or any one who might know, but...

Is/Was it possible to actually produce that 25 gun monster?

Or would certain structural problems have put a limit on things?

I assume the Yamato ship that was built was the best (Perceived or other wise) compromise between what people actually wanted, what treaties and politics allowed and what budgets and time made available?

Very much cheers to all.

25 Gun monster? didn't you meant the 5x3 one?
I think it is possible but not with the same armour mass Yamato used for it'§s turrets and belt!

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #46 on: July 30, 2013, 08:13:55 am »
Another Armoured Cruiser Modernization of mine:


The Modernized IJN Asama.
Modern 20cm Twin Gun Turrets used on the new Heavy Cruisers replacing the old 1904 ones and practically double their range.
Removed all of the casemate 152mm Guns and replaced them with 4 twin 155mm Gun Turrets similar ones found on the Oyodo, Mogami (Before Conversion to CA) and Yamato. AA Armament was limited to 2 twin 127mm AA guns but this is an old ship, I was lucky to find space for those AA guns at all!
Trunked the two funnels into one and adopted the superstructure from the Oyodo.

And a different AA version (I know triple AA guns looks a bit weird!)

Turning the IJN Asama into an AA Platform with prototype 127mm Type 1 Guns in Triple turrets based on the Type 98 Gun Turret. The idea is brought up by a friend of mine

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #47 on: July 30, 2013, 11:33:42 am »
Good idea, the first conversion would have turned the Asama into a kind of
coastal defence ship of the '30s, I think, when AA artillery still had not a very
high value. Maybe the only point is, that from the stand point of fire control
fitting triple 6inch instead of twin 8 inch, so standardising on a single calibre,
would be advantageous ?
The AA version seems logical to me, too, due to the low number of light AA guns
I would assume, that it is from the early war years ? Later maybe the 8 inch
turrets would have been replaced by two more 5 inch triples ?
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #48 on: July 31, 2013, 01:07:51 am »
Actually I've rarely deal with light AA, also these are old ships and have limited space as well.
I intended them as coastal defence (home islands or the pacific islands) ships or as convoy guardians so the 20cm guns are a must I think.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #49 on: July 31, 2013, 12:47:47 pm »
Mixing 8 and 6 inch guns on a ship may have been a re-invention of the last types of
pre-dreadnoughts and maybe would have brought back the same problems, that were
hampering ships like the HMS Agammenon: Difficulties with fire control, because splashes
of the fired shells were hard to distinguish. And to my knowledge fire control was still
relying on this principle, as long as there wasn't a fire control radar.
And to my knowledge, 6 inch guns did very well, even against enemies with heavier armament.
The higher broadside weight of 8 inch gunned ships was often leveled by the higher rate and
density of fire of 6 inch gunned ships.


It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #50 on: August 01, 2013, 12:33:05 am »
I'm not so sure. Japanese optical rangefinders were the best in World War 2 also the turret hole was a limiting factor as well!
Also they had a mixed armament to begin with as they were armoured cruisers! :)

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #51 on: August 07, 2013, 07:33:43 am »
Another AA ship conversion, this time the Emerald class of the Royal navy:



First I removed the 7x 152mm main guns and the 3x 76mm AA guns, then the 4 torpedo launchers and the catapult. slightly rebuilt the aft deck and put 7 twin 114mm (4.5inch) Mark IV AA guns in place of the main guns and 6x 40mm Twin Bofors AA guns mostly in place of the 76mm ones and the catapult space. With these changes this ship become a very potent AA platform.

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #52 on: August 10, 2013, 04:30:23 am »
Soviet Navy ship this time.

An improved and thus much better Gangut class Battleship similar to the Austro Hungarian Viribus Unitis class:


Isn't it look better this way?
Also a result of this arrangement there are much more deck space which could be allocated for extra guns, so I given her 10 Twin 100mm B-32 Dual Purpose AA Guns
The engine space is better as well giving her more speed.

And a possible BBG conversion of the Ganguts in the cold war:

An idea of mine: What if the Ganguts would not be scrapped in the 50ies but instead converted to Guided Missile Battleships?

So I draw them: removed the aft pair of turrets and the superstructure, placed a twin SA-N-1 Goa SAM and twin SS-N-1 Scrubber Anti Ship Missile launchers with their radar system and a pair of quad 57mm ZIF-75 AA Guns. Making this ship a formidable adversary against allied naval forces.

I don't know how heavy were the missile launchers and the AA guns but maybe this ship even got some extra km/h speed as well


Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #53 on: August 11, 2013, 11:56:44 am »
For the modernised "improved Gangut" I would propose the two funnels trunked. The space between
funnel and rear mast could perhaps be used for a catapult ? To my opinion it would look better. Have the
Wiking model of the modernised Marat with the bent forward funnel. It looks "interesting", but certainly
not good (Sorry for spoiling your drawing, was just as explanation)
Fitting missile systems probably would have been possible. I think, the Sverdlov class cruiser Dzerzhinsky
was fitted with a SA-N-2 missile system in place of an aft turret. The SS-N-1 Scrubber system had the
missile stowage in the deck house behind the turnable launcher, so no great problem here either. Assuming
the Soviet Navy would have had nearly unlimited personal and financial supply, this conversion may have
been a suitable coast defense ship.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #54 on: August 12, 2013, 05:17:08 am »
Yeah it sounds logical and a bit better looking too.

Well there were conversions for the Iowa's into a BBG and there is a new book about these conversion proposals for the other US battleships too!
And what do you think about the CLAA Emerald?

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #55 on: August 12, 2013, 05:50:19 am »
And what do you think about the CLAA Emerald?

Looks logical and such a ship could have been very helpful to the Royal Navy especially in the
Mediterranean theatre around 1941/1942, I think. But with 4.5 inch Mk IVs it would have been in
service not before 1943, I think, when the urgent need for AA fire power there already was somewhat
lower. And for joining the British Eastern Fleet, HMS Emerald may have been already a little
bit too old. Maybe 4.5 inch Mk.III in mointings as in HMS Renown would be a better choice ?
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #56 on: August 12, 2013, 06:35:28 am »
I choose this gun because it was one of the best.
Also there is the Red Air Force after ww2 to reckon with!

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #57 on: August 12, 2013, 06:49:14 am »
Now I post a big one.
Once I've played with the Nelsons and created some hypothetical designs based on them.
Here they are:

1. Conventionally arranged Nelson (looks pretty nice I think!)




2. Nelson class but in N3 arrangement style!




3. Battlecruiser P3, the BC version of the Nelsons

They are a bit longer to accommodate more engines and a second funnel



4. Conventional P3 Battlecruiser - the BC version of my conventional Nelson




5-6-7. Q2, Q3 and Q4 designs similar to the N3 but two middle turrets instead of one!




8. Battleship Design R3, based on the Richelieu preliminary and Admiral De Feo's idea




9. Quad Turret aka Richelieu Nelson variant 1:

I've used the space of the 3rd turret for a larger engine and a bit more Pom-Pom Guns



10. Last one Quad Turret Nelson variant 2:

The extra space here I've used for more secondary guns and light AA. The layout is similar to the soviet Stalingrad class Battlecrusiers

Possible prewar modernization proposal is to replace the secondary guns with 5,25inch DP-AA Guns

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #58 on: August 12, 2013, 12:17:45 pm »
Not much more work left to do for transforming your drawing N° 4 into the KGV-class !
With two funnels it probably would have had more engine power, so highre speed  than
the "conventional Nelson" (N°1).
What's still not clear to me: AFAIK the Nelson design was chosen, because with all turrets concentrated
on the focsle, the main belt could have been shorter. Why ? So the belt had to cover the gun barrel length
of the third turret, too, although in a conventional design it only had to cover the barbettes.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #59 on: August 13, 2013, 04:39:41 am »
I've just played with the layouts, and many thinks Nelson ain't the most beautiful battleships, but the conventional variant sure looks better in my opinion!

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #60 on: August 18, 2013, 01:56:16 am »
And now the Mogami class Tone Style:
This is my all forward variant of the Mogami class Light/Heavy cruisers making similarities with the later Tone class. The idea came from one of the preliminary designs of the USN Brooklyn class Light cruisers with a 5 turret all forward arrangement. And so I though why not try to adapt this to the Japanese Mogami class? For the two extra turret front I moved the entire superstructure aft and added two extra twin 127mm AA turrets near the original place of the old aft turrets.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #61 on: August 18, 2013, 03:35:12 am »
Don't know, how realistic this arrangement would have been with regards to structure and stability,
but it would have enabled to increase the aircraft facilities without sacrificing large parts of the main
armament. IIRC, the IJN made more use of their cruisers for launching recce aircraft, than other navies.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #62 on: August 18, 2013, 04:36:36 am »
Well they probably would not allow to fire all of it's guns at once, but in turret salvos.
And indeed, but again Japan have the Pacific Ocean and it's islands to scout for enemy!

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #63 on: August 18, 2013, 04:39:22 am »
And another Nelson style all forward variant, this time of the Iowa and the South Dakota:





Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #64 on: August 23, 2013, 06:28:08 am »
Now here is an official design, but lightly modified/improved by me:



Before the Littorio class battleships were born there was a battlecruiser design which preceeded them a few years. If built these would be like the smaller cousins of the Littorios, the same way Donkerque's to the Richelieu's.

This particular design dates back to 1933 with 26500tons displacement 4x2 343mm Cannons, 6x2 152mm Guns and 4x4 37mm AA guns. Yes, NO Long Range AA! So my version solved this problem with 8x1 90mm AA Guns. I also moved the catapult aft.
Her armour would be 240m Belt and 50mm Deck with the proposed speed of 54km/h (29knots)

The name of this design was Project 1933

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #65 on: August 30, 2013, 06:49:26 am »
Here is my version of an Anti H-41, 42 or 43 or the 100K ton Yamato variant British battleship a Super Lion:



She is equipped with 4x2 20inch cannons and 12x2 5,25inch AA guns, more space for the engines, though no catapult but it's space is equipped with 4 more AA turrets and 6x8 40mm Bofors AA guns. Armour would be around 42-44cm.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #66 on: August 31, 2013, 05:17:23 am »
With the closed gap between the funnels abd the twin turrets, it resembles HMS Vanguard (I know,
that it was based on the Lion class, too  ;) )
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #67 on: August 31, 2013, 09:16:49 am »
:D

Now a soviet behemoth:


A Soviet comparable to the H-42 Battleship.
A 4 turreted Sovietsky Soyuz basically the Project 23bis but with 12 46-47cm Guns and with 50cm Armour, basically an upgunned and uparmoured Soviet Montana. I also removed two twin 20cm Gun Turrets and put 4 more AA turrets in it's place. Seriously 4 medium/long range AA turrets for such big ship???

Offline Grey Havoc

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #68 on: August 31, 2013, 09:30:10 am »
Keep them coming!



« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 09:33:47 am by Grey Havoc »
The sole imperative of a government, once instituted, is to survive.

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #69 on: September 01, 2013, 03:15:49 am »
And the French variant:


An up gunned and armoured French Alsace with 3x4 48cm Main guns and 4x4 15cm Secondary guns (Alsace would have 3x4 38cm and 4x3 15cm) and with armour of 42-44cm

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #70 on: September 04, 2013, 09:20:43 am »
And here is a modern ship:


An alternative or rebuilt Shirane class DDH with 3 twin 127mm Turrets, No ASROC and two 8 tube RIM-7 Sea Sparrow Missile launcher with an enlarged hangar but smaller helideck area.
I thought it would look better this way. I've been inspired by the Tone class Heavy Cruiser of ww2.

The Original only have half the hanger but twice the helideck, two single 127mm turrets one 8 tube ASROC Launcher and one 8 tube RIM-7 Launcher.

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #71 on: September 12, 2013, 01:24:29 am »
Here are now two variants of mine, of the modern Soviet Sovremenny class DDG's
Variant 1:

I sacrificed the two single SA-N-12 Grizzly SAMs for another two twin 130mm AK-130 Gun turrets.
Though the long range anti air capability is lost but the the shore bombardment capability is increased dramatically as well the short and medium range AA capability.


And Variant 2:

This time I replaced the gun turrets with SA-N-12 Grizzly SAMs but instead of single launchers, these are twin, making 3 times more AA missile capacity than the originals two single launcher.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #72 on: September 12, 2013, 05:30:36 am »
The dedicated AA variant to my opinion is the better idea, I'm just not sure, that fuselage depth would
allow the SAM systm to be installed instead of the gun turetts.

It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #73 on: September 12, 2013, 10:15:09 am »
The dedicated AA variant to my opinion is the better idea, I'm just not sure, that fuselage depth would
allow the SAM systm to be installed instead of the gun turetts.

I think there is enough space but we will not know as I doubt there is a drawing showing the internal arrangements of this class

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #74 on: September 14, 2013, 10:56:45 am »
One of the Littorio prelimiary designs by Maricominav a Nelson style Littorio with aft Donkerque style layout:


Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #75 on: September 19, 2013, 01:06:55 am »
The Original Ise class battleships were an improved versions of the Fusos with different turret groupings, but other than that they are the same. I however make a different arrangement of it's turrets to two groups of three twin turrets forward and back.
I wanted to give more space or more effective space to the engines. Tough my original idea was slightly different: middle turrets were superifirng and the 3rd ones are on the same level as the first facing the same direction as them, but this take too much space. I also put 4 more extra AA turrets on the "Liberated" space.



And an alternative modernization of this variant:


Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #76 on: September 19, 2013, 06:28:00 am »
Probably preferably for placing the machinery, as you've mentioned and of course for the field of fire,
but I would expect stability problems due to the third turrets superimposed. AFAIK, the modernisation,
with fitting those large Pagoda structures already had brought CG problems to those ships.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #77 on: September 20, 2013, 12:56:27 am »
Probably preferably for placing the machinery, as you've mentioned and of course for the field of fire,
but I would expect stability problems due to the third turrets superimposed. AFAIK, the modernisation,
with fitting those large Pagoda structures already had brought CG problems to those ships.

If check it closely you can see that the 2nd and 5th turrets are in only a half superfiring position as their guns needed to be elevated to turn over from one side to another and thus I saved weight and tried to issue the stability problems with them.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #78 on: September 21, 2013, 02:00:35 am »
..and thus I saved weight and tried to issue the stability problems with them.

Not meant to depreciate your work ! It's just, that IIRC several sources I've read mentioned, that those
quite impressing modifications of Japanese large fightig ships in most cases had detrimental effects on
seakeeping and stability, although the added top weight was tried to compensate with large torpedo bulges.
And heavy artillery probably is the greatest contribution to top weight, where every feet of height counts.
But you know, I'm neither an aviation engineer, nor a shipbuilder !  ;)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #79 on: September 21, 2013, 06:56:10 am »
..and thus I saved weight and tried to issue the stability problems with them.

Not meant to depreciate your work ! It's just, that IIRC several sources I've read mentioned, that those
quite impressing modifications of Japanese large fightig ships in most cases had detrimental effects on
seakeeping and stability, although the added top weight was tried to compensate with large torpedo bulges.
And heavy artillery probably is the greatest contribution to top weight, where every feet of height counts.
But you know, I'm neither an aviation engineer, nor a shipbuilder !  ;)

Indeed but as you can see the entire superstructure was moved closer to the centre of gravity and to where the hull was more wider

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #80 on: September 24, 2013, 08:41:17 am »
Next ship is a CLAA Version of the Cleveland class Light Cruisers:



Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #81 on: September 24, 2013, 12:06:41 pm »
Nearly feeling bad about always "nagging", but .....  ;)
You built triple-5-inch turrets, didn't you ? I thought about getting along with standard twin turrets.
From the destroyer designs carrying this weapon, I think, that spacing couild be closer and its weight
surely was much less, than the original 6 inch triples. So I tried an arrangement with five turrets on the
bow and six on the stern, besides the four turrets on the ships sides. Its not that great an improvement
with regards to numbers of guns (30 to 27), but to standardisation.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #82 on: September 25, 2013, 12:32:01 am »
I've chosen the Triple turrets as indeed theyx could fire a bit slower then a twin but you have one extra barrel to shoot with. Also the less "holes" in the armour hull he less vulnerable the ship will be.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #83 on: September 25, 2013, 06:36:29 am »
... Also the less "holes" in the armour hull he less vulnerable the ship will be.

Thats's a good argument, I think, but the triple probably needs a larger turret ring, than a twin.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #84 on: September 26, 2013, 01:54:35 am »
... Also the less "holes" in the armour hull he less vulnerable the ship will be.

Thats's a good argument, I think, but the triple probably needs a larger turret ring, than a twin.

Yep that is true, but the extra firepower always needed seeing the Kamikaze attacks that plagued the late war USN Fleets!

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #85 on: September 28, 2013, 08:54:12 am »
Now two variants of the French Richelieu:
1st a regular 4x2 layout:

2nd the preliminary design of her in Admiral de Feo Style:


Original idea here (Project no 5)
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/bk/NWS/Marine_National/Alsace/images/Richelieu_Preliminary_2C6F5.jpg


Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #86 on: September 28, 2013, 09:51:07 am »
Well, interesting designs, but the one with the midship turrets realy would have eraned a french equivalent
of the british nicknames "Nelsol" and "Rodnol" for the Nelson class !  ;)
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Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #87 on: September 28, 2013, 10:56:45 am »
Lol? :D

Offline Nils_D

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #88 on: October 01, 2013, 03:45:15 am »
Can you make some modernized Yamatos along the lines of the 80's Iowa refits?

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #89 on: October 02, 2013, 02:40:11 am »
Can you make some modernized Yamatos along the lines of the 80's Iowa refits?

Something like with Phalanxes, Harpoons and Tomahawks?
I don't know, but I found something similar though with Russian/Soviet weaponry:



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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #90 on: October 02, 2013, 06:29:13 am »
Can you make some modernized Yamatos along the lines of the 80's Iowa refits?

Something like with Phalanxes, Harpoons and Tomahawks?
I don't know, but I found something similar though with Russian/Soviet weaponry:



Awesome !!!  :o   Wonderful, eccezzionale !!!  :o :o B) B)
writers , bloggers , content-curators ,  music composer and passionate of militaria and uchronia

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #91 on: October 02, 2013, 11:04:54 am »
My first thought wa "very far fetched !", but as the survival of a Yamato class ship is that either,
why not ? IF the war had ended earlier, tere COULD have be still a IJN Yamato or Mushi and then MAYBE
Japan would have been a neutral state, buying equipment from whatever source available...
Either way,looking great !
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Grey Havoc

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #92 on: October 02, 2013, 12:49:28 pm »
My first thought wa "very far fetched !", but as the survival of a Yamato class ship is that either,
why not ? IF the war had ended earlier, tere COULD have be still a IJN Yamato or Mushi and then MAYBE
Japan would have been a neutral state, buying equipment from whatever source available...
Either way,looking great !

Or the Soviets might have been able to gooble up more of Japan.

The sole imperative of a government, once instituted, is to survive.

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #93 on: October 03, 2013, 02:25:57 am »
Probably :D

As for modernized Yamato, I've only found these:


or check the images here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/51054730@N07/sets/72157624840133072/with/4865577826/


Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #94 on: October 05, 2013, 01:11:54 am »
And now my idea of a Conversion to BBG of the HMS Vanguard:

The Two forward turrets were not changed:
Two twin 381mm (15 inch) Mark I Cannons
The two aft turrets replaced with two twin Sea Slug Long Range SAM launchers
I've replaced the 133mm (5.25inch) Mark I twin guns with 127mm (5 inch) Mark N1 Twin Guns
I've removed the 10 quad 40mm Bofors AA guns and replaced them with 6 quad Sea Cat Short Range SAM launchers and their radar directors.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #95 on: October 05, 2013, 02:50:49 am »
I know, that there was an article about proposals to convert HMS Vanguard into a missile carrying
ship (maybe on http://www.phpbbplanet.com/forum/index.php?mforum=warshipprojects ), but I couldn't
find it still yet, so I've only wiki as source ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Vanguard_%2823%29 ).
But there actually were such ideas. And, as you probably would be disappointed, if I won't moan :    ;)
Perhaps you should include a deck house in front of the upper Sea Slug launcher, as this missile system was built
with horizontal storage  ?

It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #96 on: October 05, 2013, 08:27:26 am »
I know, that there was an article about proposals to convert HMS Vanguard into a missile carrying
ship (maybe on http://www.phpbbplanet.com/forum/index.php?mforum=warshipprojects ), but I couldn't
find it still yet, so I've only wiki as source ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Vanguard_%2823%29 ).
But there actually were such ideas. And, as you probably would be disappointed, if I won't moan :    ;)
Perhaps you should include a deck house in front of the upper Sea Slug launcher, as this missile system was built
with horizontal storage  ?

Actually I've drawed them with vertical (or angled vertical) loading mechanism hence the doors behind and beneath them which sounds more logical considering I've replaced the main cannons

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #97 on: October 08, 2013, 12:57:10 am »
A further improved Fuso:

Changed the twin turrets to Yamato style ones but the guns are still 36cm one (14") but better. Removed the secondary casemate guns, and increased the Heavy AA from 4 turrets to 10.

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #98 on: October 11, 2013, 02:09:35 am »
And now an Improved Nagato:


I removed the casemate cannons thus increasing the space on deck, giving space for extra Light AA guns, I also added 6 more 127mm AA turrets near the aft and fore superstructure, and replaced the seaplane catapult to the stern. Also redesigned the superstructure to get more Yamato-ish look.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #99 on: October 11, 2013, 09:19:13 am »
Similar to the modifications of HMS Valiant/Queen Elisabeth, to my opinion amongst the best
modernisations of older battleships in the RN !
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Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #100 on: October 12, 2013, 01:04:19 am »
Now my idea for an Improved Oyodo:

An Oyodo with much better fighting capabilities. This one is equipped with 15 155mm Guns in 5 triple turrets instead of the original 6 in 2 triple turrets.

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #101 on: October 15, 2013, 12:56:13 am »
And something Similar:

An Anti Aircraft Variant of the Oyodo class Cruiser.
It is equipped with 22x 100mm AA Guns in 11 Double turrets.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #102 on: October 15, 2013, 11:04:03 pm »
The latter probably would have been the more worthwhile ship for the IJN, I think.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #103 on: October 16, 2013, 01:11:13 am »
The latter probably would have been the more worthwhile ship for the IJN, I think.

Probably yes.
Though they do had a real CLAA Design with 12 twin turrets of the 10cm Type 98 AA guns in 4 groups with 3 turrets each:

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #104 on: October 16, 2013, 01:14:29 am »
One of my early drawings/edits:
Improved Takao

It is lengthened and beamier then the original

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #105 on: October 20, 2013, 04:46:27 am »
And a bit improved Edinburgh:


an added extra 5th triple turret and a pair of AA guns

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #106 on: October 22, 2013, 08:57:53 am »
Judging the experiences, the RN had made in the Mediterranean, I think it would rather have
been even more AA guns.
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Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #107 on: October 23, 2013, 01:47:25 am »
Problem with your drawing that you put the front AA guns in the space used by the aircraft catapult to launch planes!

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #108 on: October 23, 2013, 03:00:59 am »
Yes, you're right, but to my opinion, the possibilty to carry aircraft had become more and
more neglegible during the later stages of the war. Radar had become more efficient and
reliable and neither on the convoy routes in the artic sea, nor in the pacific other aircraft,
than those launched from carriers played a large role anymore.
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Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #109 on: October 23, 2013, 04:09:39 am »
Yes, you're right, but to my opinion, the possibilty to carry aircraft had become more and
more neglegible during the later stages of the war. Radar had become more efficient and
reliable and neither on the convoy routes in the artic sea, nor in the pacific other aircraft,
than those launched from carriers played a large role anymore.

Actually not because of that.
UK ships of late war carried less or no aircraft because of the plenty Aircraft Carriers do the Job

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #110 on: October 23, 2013, 04:30:52 am »
Indeed, and as is mentioned in some sources, aircraft with their related fuel
were often regarded as more a liability, than an asset for a fighting ship.
HMS King George V, for example, carried no aircraft since 1944.
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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #111 on: October 23, 2013, 08:19:51 am »
Indeed, and as is mentioned in some sources, aircraft with their related fuel
were often regarded as more a liability, than an asset for a fighting ship.
HMS King George V, for example, carried no aircraft since 1944.

And Vanguard and the cancelled Neptune class cruisers designed/finished with no aircraft facilities.

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #112 on: October 25, 2013, 01:16:12 am »
And now here is two variant of an improved KGV, I call KGVI (King George VI class)

Version A:


Version B:


Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #113 on: October 25, 2013, 04:33:52 am »
AFAIK the quadruple turrets proved to be problematic, so maybe a version with four triples would
be reasonable ? Stil two more heavy guns, than the original version, but greatly improved reliabilty
and better handling inside the turrets. 
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Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #114 on: October 25, 2013, 10:20:30 am »
AFAIK the quadruple turrets proved to be problematic, so maybe a version with four triples would
be reasonable ? Stil two more heavy guns, than the original version, but greatly improved reliabilty
and better handling inside the turrets.

Which could not mean the issues would not be fixed by then
Same applies to the Nelsons, though a design error the Turrets ammo supply was problematic but it was solved later.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #115 on: October 28, 2013, 02:05:32 am »
Which could not mean the issues would not be fixed by then

Why not, but one of the complaints was, that the turrets was cramped, something, that probably
couldn't be solved easily.
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Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #116 on: October 28, 2013, 05:04:55 am »
Which could not mean the issues would not be fixed by then

Why not, but one of the complaints was, that the turrets was cramped, something, that probably
couldn't be solved easily.

But if I would had used the 4 triple turrets then I would get the Lion 16D variant which was an official design.

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #117 on: October 28, 2013, 05:07:59 am »
Another one from my early times of drawings a re-drawed a bit more conventional Kostenko 1936 proposal BB:



Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #118 on: November 02, 2013, 02:15:27 am »
Another British this time:

This 5 turreted Exeter Heavy Cruiser in fact a design that developed the Surrey class Heavy Cruiser. The design started as a 5 turreted York class but with reduced armour to maintain speed and able to carry this many turrets. There were two turret layouts, this one and another where the 3rd turret placed just behind the 2nd funnel, giving a ship somewhat Iron Duke class look.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #119 on: November 02, 2013, 04:56:52 am »
Looks great and probably would have been a much tougher adversary to the "Admiral Graf Spee". But the N would have
needed a wealthy sponsor, as the York-class was born as a cheaper alternative to the County class.
Nevertheless, from the point of sheer beauty, it certainly wins over the Countys !
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Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #120 on: November 02, 2013, 08:14:38 am »
Continuing the British line, an improved London:

A 5 turreted County Class Heavy Cruiser of the London Subclass. I added the 5th turret before the 4th one, removed the aft mast and moved forward the aft superstructure and range finders. I also added 4 extra 102mm AA Guns in two turrets to the aft.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #121 on: November 03, 2013, 11:06:23 pm »
Well, me again, sorry !
AFAIK, the modernisation of the HMS London wasn't judged a success, so I don't think, that
another ship of this kind would have been built. IF more 8 inch had been built, maybe as an
answer to the Mogamis/Tones, to my opinion, they would have been closer to the original layout.
Or, if built later, the fault of the too large and heavy bridge wouldn't have been repeated.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #122 on: November 04, 2013, 12:59:06 am »
Well, me again, sorry !
AFAIK, the modernisation of the HMS London wasn't judged a success, so I don't think, that
another ship of this kind would have been built. IF more 8 inch had been built, maybe as an
answer to the Mogamis/Tones, to my opinion, they would have been closer to the original layout.
Or, if built later, the fault of the too large and heavy bridge wouldn't have been repeated.

I don't know, the countries were designed and used for the Big British Empire so for long voyages.
Also this was too among my earlier drawings

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #123 on: November 08, 2013, 01:05:35 am »
Continue the British line:



An Improved Vanguard with 4x3 15inch mark II guns intended for the KGV and 12x2 5,25inch AA Guns

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #124 on: November 08, 2013, 04:38:44 am »
Plausible, I think, as HMS Vanguard got its main artillery just because it was on stock,
as a leftover of the modification of HMS Glorious and Courageous.
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Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #125 on: November 09, 2013, 08:57:59 am »
Indeed it is!

My version of the Fujimoto's 1936 Dream Battleship:


Offline Creative

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #126 on: November 11, 2013, 06:49:44 pm »
That improved Exeter would have been a beast!  B)

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #127 on: November 11, 2013, 11:57:24 pm »
 Such a design would have lent itself for conversion into a hybrid much more, than IJN Ise or Hyuga
 
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Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #128 on: November 12, 2013, 12:49:51 am »
That improved Exeter would have been a beast!  B)

Probably she would :)

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #129 on: November 12, 2013, 01:01:01 am »
Such a design would have lent itself for conversion into a hybrid much more, than IJN Ise or Hyuga

Actually after the Battle of Midway and before the conversion of Ise and Hyuga all Capital ships of the IJN are considered for conversion except the Yamatos!

A quote from a different forum:
Quote
As I recall, not much work was done with the others.
 
 Nagato and Mutsu were needed for the battleline.
 
 The Kongos were the escorts for the fast carriers and had the designated expendable role for the Decisive Battle.
 
 Fuso and Yamashiro were considered too slow (odd when you consider the Shadow program was producing 26 or so knot carriers that worked with the larger, faster fleet carriers, but I digress) and were doing valuable training work.
 
 That left Ise and Hyuga, the latter's X-turret explosion practically sealing the deal....
and
Quote
Some more data about planned conversions:
 
 Kongo class - 54 aircrafts, 30 knots, flight-deck size: 220m x 34m, 18 months to complete.
 Rejected - as "unprofitable"
 
 Fuso class - 54 aircrafts, 25 knots, flight-deck size: 210m x 34m, 18 months to complete.
 It was planned to start conversion in June 1943 (in Kure and Yokosuka)
 Rejected - because analysis showed that they would be ready at the time when new carriers were expected to enter service.
 Second reason to abandon conversion plans was insufficient speed.
 
 Ise class - 54 aircrafts, 25 knots, flight-deck size: 210m x 34m, 18 months to complete.
 It was planned to start conversion in May 1943 (in Kure and Sasebo)
 Rejected - see Fuso class.
 Instead converted into hybrid-ships (less time required to prepare detailed plans)
 
 Nagato class - 54 aircrafts, 25 knots, flight-deck size: 220m x 34m, 18 months to complete
 Rejected - because some ships with big guns were still needed.
 
 All above:
 superstructure similar to Junyo class.
 two-level hangar, two elevators
 eight 127mm guns and unspecified number of 25mm
 
 Yamato class - rejected without analysis as "too valuable to convert"

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #130 on: November 12, 2013, 01:36:31 am »
Yamato class - rejected without analysis as "too valuable to convert"


Understandable, as in the realised form, it probabl it would have to sacrifice the after turret, but not in your
proposed design. The length of the quarterdeck is more or less unchanged and would have allowed for a
landing deck of about 80 metres length. Not too much, but about the same as was usable on an escort carrier
for landing, I think. So, enough for a kind of self-defence CAP.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 04:24:18 am by Jemiba »
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Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #131 on: November 12, 2013, 03:40:45 am »
Well regarding Fujimoto's Dream Battleship:
Data:
Displacement: 56.000tons
Dimensions: 226,8 x 36,00 x 10,40 meters
Engines: 151.000shp 4 shafts, 52km/h
Armour: 152mm Belt, 76mm Deck
Armaments:
3x4 510mm Cannons
8x2 155mm Guns
9x2 127mm DP-AA Guns


Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #132 on: November 12, 2013, 04:32:32 am »
Are you sure about the belt armour ? Would have been on a par with the WW I Invincibles ..
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Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #133 on: November 13, 2013, 01:20:49 am »
Are you sure about the belt armour ? Would have been on a par with the WW I Invincibles ..

Yes I'm sure.
That is the consequence to put that much heavy armament on an 50.000 ton hull!




Though on this site it was stated 406mm Belt and 279mm Deck armour:
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/history/marshall/military/wwii/Japanese.navy/jap_yamoto_bat.txt
it is also incorrectly states 10x 127mm AA guns.
But if you make the calculations with such thick belt and deck armour on such small displacement the main turrets would have paper thin armour to save weight!

Offline Grey Havoc

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #134 on: November 13, 2013, 02:44:44 am »
Yes I'm sure.
That is the consequence to put that much heavy armament on an 50.000 ton hull!

At a design speed of just over 30 knots, I suppose one could classify it as a battlecruiser.
The sole imperative of a government, once instituted, is to survive.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #135 on: November 13, 2013, 03:50:21 am »
Thanks for the clarification, I stumbled across the low displacement, too. As Grey wrote, it would
have been rather a battlecruiser, than a battleship. ... and Fujimoto a worthy descendant of Lord Fisher !
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Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #136 on: November 14, 2013, 01:03:54 am »
Fujimoto designed many ships for the IJN, and he draw the Fuso Replacement Battleships!

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #137 on: November 14, 2013, 01:56:36 am »
I still got drawings left :)

My version of the proposed later war (1944) cruiser design for the Australian Navy:


It would be similar in appearance to the Crown Colony, Minotaur/Swiftsure or Tiger class light cruisers but instead of 152mm (6") Guns it would have been equipped with 133mm (5.25") ones in 4 triple turrets.
The turrets itself would be either a normal box like one used for the 152mm Guns or as my drawing suggests a triple barrelled variant of the 5.25" Mark I's (These can be seen on the Dido, King George V, Lion and Vanguard class warships)

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #138 on: November 22, 2013, 01:34:25 am »
And now a Modernized Never-Were from my Country:


This is in my opinion how would look like the Austro Hungarian navy'sWW 1 era battlecruiser: "Design I" after modernization in the 1930's. As the A-H navy disbanded after WW1 we don't know how would their ships looked like so I choose Italian design with German AA guns.I call her SMS Count Széchenyi

Armaments:
Original WW1 one:
3x3 35cm K14 Cannons
 18x1 15cm K10 Guns
 
My Extra AA Armament:
6x2 10,5cm SK C/33 DP-AA Guns

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #139 on: November 22, 2013, 02:37:55 am »
... so I choose Italian design with German AA guns.

Nice ! The shape of the fuselage very much reminds me on the German battlecruisers
of the Derfflinger class.
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Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #140 on: November 22, 2013, 04:09:16 am »
... so I choose Italian design with German AA guns.

Nice ! The shape of the fuselage very much reminds me on the German battlecruisers
of the Derfflinger class.

That is called Superstrucutre :)
And it's the same as the Littorio or the Modernized Andrea Doria and Conte di Vacour :)

Offline Arjen

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #141 on: November 22, 2013, 04:49:17 am »
I think Jens is referring to the hull ('Schiffsrumpf') shape which is similar to Derfflinger's.

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #142 on: November 23, 2013, 01:48:58 am »
Well both are German Heritage
Derfflinger is the Imperial German one while Design I is the Austrian one.

About Derfflinger...
Somebody asked me to draw a modernized one, and such this was born:

The 12 Casemated 15cm guns removed, and replaced with 10 single turrets of the same calibre but modern guns seen on the Deutschland class Big Gun Cruisers, 6 twin 105mm Flak cannons ware added, reworked superstructure engine and funnels.

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #143 on: November 25, 2013, 01:20:52 pm »
Well it's your decision.

Now Alternative Tone Cruiser:


Originally the Japanese Tone class heavy cruisers started their life as light cruisers with 4x3 155mm Guns but this changed to 4x2 203mm ones. I made some modifications to them by rearranging the turrets so all of them looks forward, this allowed to move the turrets a few meters aft, and have better protection from the belt armour which was thin near the nose. On the other hand this somewhat limited the turrets capability to fire aft.

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #144 on: November 28, 2013, 01:31:42 pm »
A pretty good looking battleship design I've made:
South Dakota Battleship Nelson Variant



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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #145 on: November 30, 2013, 03:26:21 pm »
I'm slowly starting to run out of drawings to post here, but I still have some few more!

This is my idea of a Modernized Design VI Battlecruiser of the Austro-Hungarian Navy:

It's guns are pretty large for its era, 420mm guns in two twin turrets, it also got more space on its deck, I put 10x2 105mm AA guns and more light AA especially on the platform between the funnels.

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #146 on: December 08, 2013, 01:12:23 am »
Next a Spanish variant of the Italain Littorio:


After the Spanish Civil War Franco wished to enlarge the Spanish Armada and for such new cruiser designs emerged, both light and heavy ones, these would be built in Span but Franco wanted 4 new Battleships as well. He choose that the Italian Littorio classes would be an excellent addition to the new Spanish Armada. 4 such ships ordered based on the Littorio and to built in Italy, but with small changes like no secondary guns and Spanish type 120mm AA guns in double turrets instead of the Italian 90mm singles. From these I draw this battleship.

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #147 on: December 08, 2013, 01:45:16 am »
Is that a pure what-if, or is there a grainof truth in those plans about Spains naval re-armament ?
Sorry, I'm not familiar with the Spanish naval history.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #148 on: December 08, 2013, 03:55:48 am »
Found one reference in 'Schlachtschiffe und Schlachtkreuzer 1905-1970' by Siegfried Breyer, Manfred Pawlak Verlag Gmbh 1970, p347:
Quote
Ein 1940 beschlossenes Bauprogramm sah 4 Schlachtschiffe zu je 35000 ts mit je 8 oder 9--38 cm-SK sowie 14 >Panzerschiffe< zu je 15000 ts vor, dazu 18 Zerstörer und 14 UBoote. Es war von vornherein offenkundig, daß dieses Programm nur unter größten Anstrengungen und nur in einen längeren Zeit hätte verwirklicht werden können. Zunächst erwog man, nur eines von den 4 geplanten Schlachschiffen und 3 der vorgesehenen >Panzerschiffe< zu beginnen; selbst dazu ist es jedoch nicht gekommen, da Spanien durch den langen Bürgerkrieg innerlich ausgeblutet und finanziell ruiniert war.
Quote
A building program decreed in 1940 foresaw four battleships, each 35000 tonnes, each with 8 or 9 38cm guns and 14 >ironclads< of 15000 tonnes each, plus 18 destroyers and 14 submarines. It was expected from the outset that this program could only be realized with great effort and after a long time. First, it was planned to start on one of the 4 battleships and 3 of the intended >ironclads<; even that was not to be as Spain was internally bled by the long civil war and financially ruined.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2013, 03:58:08 am by Arjen »

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #149 on: December 08, 2013, 04:21:10 am »
Many thanks ! The mention of 38 cm guns and the term "Panzerschiff" suggests close collaboration
with Germany, but Italy wold be likely, too, of course.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #150 on: December 08, 2013, 06:53:47 am »
Breyer explicitly mentions 38.1 cm for British and Italian guns, so his mentioning 38 cm guns would indeed point to German guns.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2013, 06:55:33 am by Arjen »

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #151 on: December 08, 2013, 08:40:38 am »
It was stated that Franco wanted Littorios but slightly improved in their AA Armament, probably they know that single 90mm guns for Battleships are inadequate!
As for the cruisers there were plans for regular light cruisers:
the Project 124 from 1936 with 2x3,2x2 152mm guns
or from Anslado with 4x3 152mm Guns from 1940
Heavy cruisers such as:
the Project 131 from 1937 with 3x2 203mm Cannons,
the Project 138 from 1939:
Version A with 4x3 203mm Cannons,
Version B from 1939 with 3x2 280mm Cannons (German Scharnhorst's cannons),
Version C from 1939 with 2x3 305cm Cannons (Ex cannons of the Espanas)
or 2 designs from Anslado with either 4x2 or 3x3 203mm Cannons from 1940



(By the way how can I turn off the built in algrotihms of the message box so if I copy paste from another source I only paste as text and not with it's extra info??? (Style, link, colour etc) )

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #152 on: December 08, 2013, 09:00:11 am »
Paste your text into notepad if on windows, text editor if on linux. Then copy text from notepad/text editor, paste into message box. That should remove any text properties you don't want copied.

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #153 on: December 13, 2013, 07:19:15 am »
Another Italian creation of mine:
RM Otranto:

A person asked me if I can draw a modified Andrea Doria Class Battleship to fit in as a Battlecruiser.
What I basically did was remove the aft main twin turret as requested and shortened the entire hull thus born this design.
I think it could go well together with the Historical Project 1933 BC:


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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #154 on: January 23, 2014, 12:26:17 pm »
My idea for the purposed Super Cruiser by Winston Churchill in 1939-40:




« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 04:32:18 am by Tzoli »

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #155 on: January 24, 2014, 01:09:32 pm »
Great work and looking plausible as a ship between HMS Belfast and the KGVs. Could have been worthwhile
as a counter to the "Pocket Battleships". Smaller calibre guns, but double the number and better protection.
And as the Town class was originally envisaged to have four quadruple turrets, it may be plausible here, too.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #156 on: January 24, 2014, 01:23:09 pm »
Great work and looking plausible as a ship between HMS Belfast and the KGVs. Could have been worthwhile
as a counter to the "Pocket Battleships". Smaller calibre guns, but double the number and better protection.
And as the Town class was originally envisaged to have four quadruple turrets, it may be plausible here, too.

It was a real design from 1939 when Winston Churchill proposed a Super Cruiser to fight enemy heavy cruisers.
These were to be the stats:

Dimensions: 220m x 25.6m x 7.3m
Displacement: 22,000tons
Engine Power: 154.000shp 4 shafts, 61km/h (33knots)
Range: 18.500km on 30km/h (10.000nm on 16knots)
Armour: 7inch belt, 4inch deck (178/102mm)
Armaments:
12, 9.2inch (234mm) Guns in 3 quad turrets
12, 4.5in (114mm) AA Guns in 6 twin turrets
 16, 40mm AA Guns in 4 quad turrets

Further study not continued on the super cruiser type as 4 ships would cost more then 3 Vanguards!

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #157 on: January 25, 2014, 04:05:07 am »
It was a real design from 1939 when Winston Churchill proposed a Super Cruiser to fight enemy heavy cruisers.
....
 16, 40mm AA Guns in 4 quad turrets

Sorry, what I found just gave the number of guns, but not theri distribution, there's a fictional drawing
with 4 triple turrets, too.
But so, even better !
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #158 on: January 25, 2014, 08:43:55 am »
It was a real design from 1939 when Winston Churchill proposed a Super Cruiser to fight enemy heavy cruisers.
....
 16, 40mm AA Guns in 4 quad turrets

Sorry, what I found just gave the number of guns, but not theri distribution, there's a fictional drawing
with 4 triple turrets, too.
But so, even better !

I've only know 2 versions of the Churchill cruiser, the preferred 3 quadruple one and a bit smaller with 3 triple one. These featuring the 9.2inch guns.

The 8inch heavy cruisers have more variants ranging from 4x2 through 3x3 to 4x3 8inch turrets, but most designs featured the 3x3 variant and studies started in 1939 and ended in 1941/42. For AA Armament the earlier versions had 4inch AA guns while the later had 4.5inch ones. The AA too had different numbers: 4x2,6x2,8x2

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #159 on: January 25, 2014, 01:13:09 pm »
And now my version of the proposed 8inch Admiral class heavy cruisers of 1941:






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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #160 on: February 15, 2014, 12:59:49 am »
Based on the modernization proposals of the Nelson class battleships I've drawn a similar design based on the N3 class Battleships:



And in Nelson's colour scheme:



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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #161 on: February 22, 2014, 03:35:57 pm »
A person asked me to draw a sort of Super Nelson type battleship with quadruple main turrets, triple secondary ones and heavy AA Armament.
And here is the result:
A slightly longer Nelson with the said armaments.
The Heavy AA are the same guns as on the original Nelson just in twin turrets (Modified ones used on the Tribal class destroyers to allow high angle fire)



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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #162 on: March 09, 2014, 08:31:19 am »
Based on this thread and my drawing:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,21619.0.html

I've also created my own version of the 1993-96 modernization plan of the Iowas:
 My slightly alternative version with 4x1 5inch Mark 19 guns (in Mark 45 mountings) instead of the modifed 5inch twin turrets, and 6x2x6 25mm Phalanx II CIWS's
(from this thread: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1672.msg190112.html#msg190112 )

« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 02:42:53 pm by Tzoli »

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #163 on: March 10, 2014, 02:44:09 pm »
And here it is the coloured version:


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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #164 on: April 15, 2015, 11:41:43 pm »
Sorry for the long pause, I've forgot about this topic. I've now post my recent drawings.

First a true never were design the USN's proposed Anti Ballistic Missile Warship:


It would be the naval and mobile equivalent of the abortive safeguard program featuring more economic friendly and better solution for the problems assigned to the Chinese and Soviet eastern ICBM sites.

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #165 on: April 16, 2015, 11:35:21 pm »
Second is my idea for a 5 turreted Akizuki on the Shimakaze's slightly larger hull. It have no relation to the real proposed Super Akizuki class Destroyers though.
Also it is the first standardized drawing of mine, from which I use the same size and proportions for my future drawings.


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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #166 on: April 18, 2015, 01:39:44 am »
Next is the proposed but never starter AA cruiser of the IJN, but as others tend to call it, the Japanese Atlanta:


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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #167 on: April 19, 2015, 01:35:16 am »
Having the previous never were proposal had issues with top weight I've redesigned to solve parts of these problems in my slightly revised version:

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #168 on: April 19, 2015, 11:30:19 pm »
Following a never were from the mid-late WW1 era to use in small and quick construction ships the excess turrets of the Borodino class Battlercrusiers.
These ships are well armoured, heavily armed, small and slow vessels.
Basically a design which features a full armament of a battleship, on the size of a coastal warship and the silhouette and speed of a monitor.

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #169 on: April 21, 2015, 12:44:47 am »
Great work and looking plausible as a ship between HMS Belfast and the KGVs. Could have been worthwhile
as a counter to the "Pocket Battleships". Smaller calibre guns, but double the number and better protection.
And as the Town class was originally envisaged to have four quadruple turrets, it may be plausible here, too.

It was a real design from 1939 when Winston Churchill proposed a Super Cruiser to fight enemy heavy cruisers.
These were to be the stats:

Dimensions: 220m x 25.6m x 7.3m
Displacement: 22,000tons
Engine Power: 154.000shp 4 shafts, 61km/h (33knots)
Range: 18.500km on 30km/h (10.000nm on 16knots)
Armour: 7inch belt, 4inch deck (178/102mm)
Armaments:
12, 9.2inch (234mm) Guns in 3 quad turrets
12, 4.5in (114mm) AA Guns in 6 twin turrets
 16, 40mm AA Guns in 4 quad turrets

Further study not continued on the super cruiser type as 4 ships would cost more then 3 Vanguards!

Hello! Please tell me whether there is any information about Churchill heavy cruiser and heavy cruisers of "Admiral" in open sources?

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #170 on: April 21, 2015, 03:24:51 am »
Continuing the series with the proposed variants of the French Jean Bart Battleship of the Richelieu class:


Variant 0: Jean Bart as layed down. 5 triple 152mm DP-AA guns and 37mm Light AA.
Variant 1: Jean Bart as would have been finished originally with French 100mm and 37mm AA guns.
Variant 2: Jean Bart as would looked like if completed like Richelieu and refitted by US light AA weaponry of 40mm Bofors and 20mm Oerlikons
Variant 3: Jean Bart as finished in 1955 with heavy AA weaponry of French origin and modified bridge.
Variant 4: Proposed Anti-Aircraft Battleship conversion of the incomplete Jean Bart
Variant 5: Hybrid Battleship-Carrier, a proposal from 1940 when some French admirals suggested to finish her as a hybrid battleship-carrier
Variant 6: Full Fleet Carrier conversion from 1945. An American proposal to convert her to a ful scale carrier from the end of the war.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 04:55:08 am by Tzoli »

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #171 on: April 22, 2015, 04:53:23 am »
Next is my idea of a what if the different carrier colour schemes were applied to the Hosho as well:


1st: Original Hosho colour scheme
2nd: possible colour scheme of 1945 according to some photos.
3rd: Shoho style
4th: Shokaku style
5th: Unryu style

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #172 on: April 22, 2015, 04:59:31 am »

Hello! Please tell me whether there is any information about Churchill heavy cruiser and heavy cruisers of "Admiral" in open sources?

Hi!
Only a table showing data of ships with a few sketch drawings. You can find it here:
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/bk/
(click on the warship drawing then navigate to the RN)


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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #173 on: April 22, 2015, 07:09:20 am »

Hello! Please tell me whether there is any information about Churchill heavy cruiser and heavy cruisers of "Admiral" in open sources?

Hi!
Only a table showing data of ships with a few sketch drawings. You can find it here:
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/bk/
(click on the warship drawing then navigate to the RN)
Thank you for your message! I will be glad to help, if you are interested in projects of Russian / Soviet ships . Some of them (including unrealized) are published in our historical and technical books.

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #174 on: April 22, 2015, 08:02:54 am »

Hello! Please tell me whether there is any information about Churchill heavy cruiser and heavy cruisers of "Admiral" in open sources?

Hi!
Only a table showing data of ships with a few sketch drawings. You can find it here:
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/bk/
(click on the warship drawing then navigate to the RN)
Thank you for your message! I will be glad to help, if you are interested in projects of Russian / Soviet ships . Some of them (including unrealized) are published in our historical and technical books.

Depends if you know data about ship I've not yet found :)
Look:
http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/4259-sovietrussian-warship-project-numbers/

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #175 on: April 22, 2015, 08:11:00 pm »
Depends if you know data about ship I've not yet found :)
Look:
http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/4259-sovietrussian-warship-project-numbers/

OK. For example:
Cruiser Project 28 - interjacent project between "Kirov" and "Chapaev".
 
Destroyer armoured leader Project 47 (1940) with universal 130mm gun.

Batleship Project 27 - variant of the reconstruction "Marat" (1944)


« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 08:35:39 pm by alex_mistch »

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #176 on: April 22, 2015, 11:31:15 pm »
Thanks, I've not known about the Kirov-Chapayev, and I've not yet included in the list the other Gangut reconstruction. What is the design date of the project 28 cruiser?

In the mean time my next drawing is about a hypothetical Japanese Coastal Defence ship I've call Shosen-Kyo class. A japanese friend of mine asked me to draw something as Japan lacked these kind of ships (except the Thonburi class built for Thailand). Her main weapons are salvaged from the Settsu class Battleships her build date was late 1930's, early 40's.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 11:32:49 pm by Tzoli »

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #177 on: April 23, 2015, 02:22:35 am »
Project 28 - 1936-37.



Project X. Project cruiser-raider mid-1930s. According to the draft cruiser had to carry 12 240mm guns (6 rounds/minute), the armour - 115mm, 6 twin universal 130mm guns, six 45mm automatic settings and 4 machine guns 12,8mm. In addition, the cruiser had two triple-tube TA caliber 533mm. Speed ​​was planned in 38 - 39 knots. Autor of project - ""Kirov-father" A.I. Maslov.

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #178 on: April 24, 2015, 09:41:33 am »
Project X is supposedly Project 22. That inner layout drawing is of very bad quality! Can you post it to the naval thread in better quality? This post is for theoretical drawings.

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #179 on: April 24, 2015, 09:42:19 am »
Previous Shosen-Kyo class in a late war conversion to a coastal AA ship:

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #180 on: April 25, 2015, 01:06:27 am »
Following a giant battleship-battlecruiser asked by a friend

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #181 on: April 26, 2015, 02:12:52 am »
And lastly a technical drawing of mine for a streamlined battleship design from the Popular Mechanics magazine:

Based on these:
http://i.imgur.com/WRbSNbY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/EDd7RGm.jpg

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #182 on: October 16, 2015, 10:23:32 am »
A few more designs I did not post here:





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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #183 on: October 17, 2015, 08:08:43 pm »
Wasn't the battleship-battlecruiser from a 30's Popular Mechanics cover story?
In God we trust, all others we monitor. :-p

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #184 on: October 18, 2015, 08:31:22 am »
Wasn't the battleship-battlecruiser from a 30's Popular Mechanics cover story?

You mean the  streamlined battleship?
http://tzoli.deviantart.com/art/HMS-Lord-Fisher-541612278

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #185 on: October 26, 2015, 07:34:11 pm »
Yup
In God we trust, all others we monitor. :-p

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #187 on: October 27, 2015, 07:35:35 am »
Enjoyed your SABMIS ship. I have the Jane's at home with the artists impression.


You may have seen the discussion on the Royal Navy Escort Cruiser that never was.  It was supposed to be ordered in 1962/3 but had to be postponed.  The ship would have looked like INVINCIBLE but smaller and with Macks instead of Stacks.

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #188 on: October 27, 2015, 03:21:52 pm »
Enjoyed your SABMIS ship. I have the Jane's at home with the artists impression.


You may have seen the discussion on the Royal Navy Escort Cruiser that never was.  It was supposed to be ordered in 1962/3 but had to be postponed.  The ship would have looked like INVINCIBLE but smaller and with Macks instead of Stacks.

Thanks! Had to work on very limited info.
Those cruisers are more like Helicopter Carriers to me with Sea Slug launchers and 4,5inch guns

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #189 on: October 28, 2015, 12:44:28 am »
My newest additions:

Design V leader, an offshot of the Dido preliminary studies and the from what the Tribal class evolved:


And an actual Tribal preliminary design when they considered 5 turrets, a heritage of the earlier Design V leader study:


The Design K-25F, one of the preliminary studies which eventually led to the Crown Colony class cruisers:

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #190 on: January 10, 2016, 10:41:26 am »
Another new drawing. It was request to modernise the HMS Tiger in Warspite stlye so KGV style superstructure but still had the Nelson heritage, combined large funnel like on Malaya and Barham added AA weaponry and seaplane.

« Last Edit: January 24, 2016, 03:58:22 am by Tzoli »

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #191 on: January 24, 2016, 03:53:38 am »
Next is another hypothetical design for an alternative timeline. A fast battleship based on M2, but with 2x2,2x3 406mm (16inch) main guns and 31,2knots (desired was 33knots)
Color scheme basis was provided by the person requesting it.

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #192 on: January 30, 2016, 04:24:08 am »
Next is a Hypothetical IJN Light cruiser from 1944/45 named the Kano class:


Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #193 on: February 09, 2016, 01:35:50 pm »
Now the A7 design of USN's 1919 small BB studies:


Original plan from the Springstyle books can be found here:
http://shipscribe.com/styles/S-584/images/s-file/s584150c.htm

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #194 on: August 22, 2016, 07:26:44 am »
Quite some time since I've last posted here something so here are a few new from my collection:

Modernised Design III Battlecruiser


A friend of mine asked me to draw in detail a Japanese large battlecruiser study, the design III of 1916.

It is not much known about this design but suspected it has connection with the Amagi class battlecruiser design series, with Design I through IV Yuzuru Hiraga drawn up a ship capable of 34,5-35knots (64km/h) with good armament of 41cm cannons and a long sleek hull for the desired speed. They were well armed and armoured, very fast ship designs.
My own idea that they are the battlecruiser variants of the Nagato class battleships featuring the same armament with more secondary guns but somewhat thinner deck armour.
It was a WW1 era study and my drawing shows how would she look like in mid-late war after an extensive modernisation in the 30's and added AA armament during the war.

Data on the design:
Dimensions: 295m x 29,56m x 9m
Displacement: 44.500tons standard
Engines: 215.000shp, 6 shafts
Maximum Speed: 65km/h (35knots)
Range: Unknown
Armour: 305mm Belt, 76mm Deck
Armaments:
4x2 41cm Type 3 Cannons
20x1 14cm Type 3 Casemated Guns
4x1 8cm Type 3 AA Guns
4x1 533mm Above Water Torpedo Tubes
4x1 533mm Submerged Torpedo Tubes

Data on the modernised design:
Armaments:
4x2 41cm Type 3 Cannons
20x1 14cm Type 3 Casemated Guns
12x2 12,7cm Type 89 DP-AA Guns
24x3,40x2 20mm Type 96 AA Guns
4x2 610mm Torpedo Tubes
3x Mitsubishi F1M Paul Floatplanes

Links to the original documents describing the design:
http://gazo.dl.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/hiraga2014/images/large/21730601/21730601-002_001.jpg
http://gazo.dl.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/hiraga2014/images/large/21730101/21730101-050_001.jpg
http://gazo.dl.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/hiraga2014/images/large/21730101/21730101-051_001.jpg

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #195 on: August 22, 2016, 07:29:18 am »
Next is a hypothetical modernisation of the Unryu class Aircraft carriers of the IJN in the late 1950's early 1960's, using elements from the IJN Unryu as a base, HMS Victorious's angled flight deck, USS Forrestal's guns and mostly the superstructure from the rebuilt Ticonderoga class carriers.


Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #196 on: August 22, 2016, 07:34:06 am »
Next is a Hypothetical design with a mixed style of American and Russian elements

Oneirodynia class Battleship:


218 x 32 x 10m
Displacement: 39.000 standard, 41600 full load
Engine: Steam Turbines, 77.000shp, 3 shafts, 25kts max speed
Range: 4 500nm at 14kts
Armour: Belt: 350mm, Deck: 160mm
Armament:
3x4 386mm Cannons
16x1 142mm Casemated guns
8x1 80mm AA guns
4x1 410mm Torpedo Tubes

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #197 on: January 28, 2019, 01:56:00 pm »
It was quite some tiem since I last posted here as nowadays I rarely draw truly hypothetical not real world designs, but since my last post I've made same:
First the Karl von Muller class Big Gun Cruiser:

https://www.deviantart.com/tzoli/art/Karl-von-Muller-class-Big-Gun-Cruiser-624140575

Requested by a friend as a modified and slightly enlarged Deutschland style big gun cruiser with set armament calibres, dimensions, speed and armour.

The simulation:


Karl von Müller class, German Weimar Republic Big Gun Cruiser / Pocket Battleship laid down 1934 (Engine 1936)

Displacement:
    14 479 t light; 15 449 t standard; 16 473 t normal; 17 292 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
    (621,04 ft / 606,96 ft) x 74,67 ft x (26,84 / 27,81 ft)
    (189,29 m / 185,00 m) x 22,76 m  x (8,18 / 8,48 m)

Armament:
      6 - 11,30" / 287 mm 52,0 cal guns - 770,23lbs / 349,37kg shells, 125 per gun
      Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1934 Model
      2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      16 - 5,79" / 147 mm 55,0 cal guns - 104,61lbs / 47,45kg shells, 150 per gun
      Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1934 Model
      2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
        2 raised mounts - superfiring
      6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      28 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 83,0 cal guns - 2,25lbs / 1,02kg shells, 4 000 per gun
      Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model
      4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
        3 raised mounts - superfiring
      10 x Twin mounts on side ends, majority forward
        6 raised mounts - superfiring
      36 - 1,06" / 27,0 mm 65,0 cal guns - 0,66lbs / 0,30kg shells, 3 000 per gun
      Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model
      8 x Quad mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
        2 raised mounts - superfiring
      1 x Quad mount on centreline, aft deck aft
      Weight of broadside 6 382 lbs / 2 895 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      12 - 22,0" / 559 mm, 24,61 ft / 7,50 m torpedoes - 1,774 t each, 21,292 t total
    In 4 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:        Width (max)    Length (avg)        Height (avg)
    Main:    5,59" / 142 mm    401,90 ft / 122,50 m    10,37 ft / 3,16 m
    Ends:    2,76" / 70 mm    205,05 ft / 62,50 m    10,37 ft / 3,16 m
    Upper:    1,57" / 40 mm    401,90 ft / 122,50 m    8,01 ft / 2,44 m
      Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length
      Main Belt inclined 13,50 degrees (positive = in)

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
        2,76" / 70 mm    394,52 ft / 120,25 m    18,04 ft / 5,50 m
    Beam between torpedo bulkheads 72,18 ft / 22,00 m

   - Hull void:
        0,00" / 0 mm      0,00 ft / 0,00 m    0,00 ft / 0,00 m

   - Gun armour:    Face (max)    Other gunhouse (avg)    Barbette/hoist (max)
    Main:    5,91" / 150 mm    2,95" / 75 mm        4,72" / 120 mm
    2nd:    0,98" / 25 mm    0,98" / 25 mm        0,98" / 25 mm

   - Box over machinery & magazines:
    4,61" / 117 mm
    Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm  Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3,94" / 100 mm, Aft 1,97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
    Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,  plus diesel motors,
    Geared drive, 2 shafts, 90 000 shp / 67 140 Kw = 30,08 kts
    Range 9 999nm at 12,00 kts
    Bunker at max displacement = 1 843 tons

Complement:
    726 - 945

Cost:
    £7,672 million / $30,688 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
    Armament: 1 762 tons, 10,7 %
       - Guns: 1 719 tons, 10,4 %
       - Weapons: 43 tons, 0,3 %
    Armour: 4 619 tons, 28,0 %
       - Belts: 1 396 tons, 8,5 %
       - Torpedo bulkhead: 726 tons, 4,4 %
       - Armament: 604 tons, 3,7 %
       - Armour Deck: 1 810 tons, 11,0 %
       - Conning Towers: 82 tons, 0,5 %
    Machinery: 2 525 tons, 15,3 %
    Hull, fittings & equipment: 5 396 tons, 32,8 %
    Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 993 tons, 12,1 %
    Miscellaneous weights: 177 tons, 1,1 %
       - Hull below water: 25 tons
       - Hull void weights: 55 tons
       - Hull above water: 22 tons
       - On freeboard deck: 45 tons
       - Above deck: 30 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
    Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
      21 175 lbs / 9 605 Kg = 29,4 x 11,3 " / 287 mm shells or 2,3 torpedoes
    Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,15
    Metacentric height 4,2 ft / 1,3 m
    Roll period: 15,3 seconds
    Steadiness    - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 %
            - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,78
    Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,18

Hull form characteristics:
    Hull has low quarterdeck ,
      a normal bow and a cruiser stern
    Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,474 / 0,480
    Length to Beam Ratio: 8,13 : 1
    'Natural speed' for length: 24,64 kts
    Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
    Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
    Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 16,00 degrees
    Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m
    Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
                Fore end,     Aft end
       - Forecastle:    15,00 %,  26,25 ft / 8,00 m,  24,11 ft / 7,35 m
       - Forward deck:    34,34 %,  24,11 ft / 7,35 m,  22,31 ft / 6,80 m
       - Aft deck:    34,34 %,  22,31 ft / 6,80 m,  22,31 ft / 6,80 m
       - Quarter deck:    16,32 %,  15,26 ft / 4,65 m,  15,58 ft / 4,75 m
       - Average freeboard:        21,89 ft / 6,67 m
    Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
    Space    - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93,2 %
        - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 130,8 %
    Waterplane Area: 29 504 Square feet or 2 741 Square metres
    Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
    Structure weight / hull surface area: 149 lbs/sq ft or 728 Kg/sq metre
    Hull strength (Relative):
        - Cross-sectional: 0,93
        - Longitudinal: 1,93
        - Overall: 1,00
    Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
    Excellent accommodation and workspace room

Offline Colonial-Marine

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #198 on: January 28, 2019, 05:22:32 pm »
11.3" and 5.8" guns? Why the unusual calibers?
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 07:35:44 pm by Colonial-Marine »
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Offline Graham1973

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #199 on: January 28, 2019, 06:51:36 pm »
Looks good. If you are ever in the need of more non-standard Deutschland Class ships, I've posted quite a few in my 'Fictional Warships' thread.

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #200 on: January 31, 2019, 01:24:25 pm »
11.3" and 5.8" guns? Why the unusual calibers?

These were asked

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #201 on: February 02, 2019, 10:45:03 am »
The Guided Missile Battleship Kii:

https://www.deviantart.com/tzoli/art/Guided-Missile-Battleship-Kii-629054242

Asked by a friend  to draw a cold war era modernised Kii class battleship with missile launchers and such.
Here is the product of never were warship's could had been modernization's hypothetical Guided Missile refit!

I've replaced the 3rd 41cm twin turret with a twin RIM-8 Talos missile launcher with it's associated loading equipment. The should had been 12,7cm Type 89 DP-AA Guns were replaced by the 5" Mark 18 single gun turrets, all casemated 140mm and 25mm AA guns were removed and added British 40mm Bofors Mark V as well as various US radar systems.