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Author Topic: TZoli's Warship Designs  (Read 149798 times)

Offline Tzoli

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TZoli's Warship Designs
« on: June 15, 2013, 10:57:43 am »
Hey guys!

This is my first thread in here but I regularly post ship designs at the Warship Projects Forum, so now I've decided to post them here as well.
I tend to draw/design ships which are plausible to build, or I tend to do so!

So let me start with my newest designs a modified German Admiral Hipper and P class Heavy Cruisers.

The idea behind these are the real triple 20.3cm Krupp Turret which can be found here:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,18915.0.html

So in order:
1. Original Admiral Hipper class Heavy Cruiser: 4x2 20.3cm, 6x2 10.5cm, 4x3 53.3cm Torpedoes
2. Prinz Eugen class (Improved Admiral Hipper class Heavy Cruiser): 2x3,2x2 20.3cm, 8x2 10.5cm, 4x3 53.3cm Torpedoes
3. P class (Modified P class Heavy Cruiser): 3x3 20.3cm, 7x2 10.5cm, 2x4 53.3cm Torpedoes
4. Improved P class (Modified P class Heavy Cruiser): 4x3 20.3cm, 6x2 10.5cm, 2x4 53.3cm Torpedoes
5. Original P class Big Gun Cruiser: 2x3 28cm, 2x2 15cm, 4x2 10.5cm, 2x4 53.3cm Torpedoes


And the ship number in my opinion are:
2x Admiral Hipper
2x Prinz Eugen
3x P-I
3x P-II
6x P
« Last Edit: June 16, 2013, 01:16:36 am by Tzoli »

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2013, 07:24:01 am »
And now the Nelson variant of the Bismarck but with 3x3 38cm Cannons!


What do you guys think about these?

Offline flateric

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2013, 08:00:37 am »
we think that you should go to http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php?action=forum or http://www.shipbucket.com/forums/index.php
that much more suited for your artwork
SPF devoted to REAL unbuilt and secret projects
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2013, 08:30:51 am »
This thread User's artworks contains mostly only user designed vehicles so I think it DO belongs here.
As for Shipbucket, my drawings ain't pixel ones so I won't it there

Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2013, 03:26:41 am »
If designs without a real project behind are posted here, the "Theoretical and Speculative" section
may be more suitable.
BTW, comparing your alternative Bismarck design with the Nelson, I think, it would have got problems
with seakeeping, as the complete weight of the heavy artillery is placed much further forward, than
in HMS Nelson/Rodney.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2013, 12:07:41 am »
If designs without a real project behind are posted here, the "Theoretical and Speculative" section
may be more suitable.
BTW, comparing your alternative Bismarck design with the Nelson, I think, it would have got problems
with seakeeping, as the complete weight of the heavy artillery is placed much further forward, than
in HMS Nelson/Rodney.

Well my designs are mixed
There are ones which based on real designs (Tone class Light Cruiser for Example or the Australian Cockatoo design Heavy Cruiser)
or ideas of real things like my triple turreted German cruisers, or plausible design which could have been built or improved versions of original ships.

As for the Bismarck, indeed probably all forward are a bit forward, but see this:
4x2 38cm weights a bit more than 3x3 38cm (including turrets, guns and the support equipment, elevators ammo rooms etc)
so by moving the heavy machinery aft this could solve the problem but now I see that the Bismarck's Superstructure was quite long for such an arrangement!

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2013, 12:26:38 am »
By the way I've made coloured versions of my latest line drawings. Includes the german ones as well:



Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2013, 12:32:07 am »
And here is my Australian 1920's era heavy Cruiser proposal the Cockatoo island Works Design:
Difference to the original proposal that it have twin torp launchers and AA Guns and a bit different Casemate placement I've deciphed from the texts





Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2013, 03:30:50 am »
Tzoli, I've moved this thread here, not to depreciate your work, but just to reduce the danger of someone
taking your designs as actual proposals.
About the Australian heavy: It looks very much like a modified Hawkins to me. You noted, that you just modified
the proposal. So there actually was a project of that kind ?
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2013, 01:37:05 am »
Tzoli, I've moved this thread here, not to depreciate your work, but just to reduce the danger of someone
taking your designs as actual proposals.
About the Australian heavy: It looks very much like a modified Hawkins to me. You noted, that you just modified
the proposal. So there actually was a project of that kind ?

Yes there is!
I've created a topic about it here:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,19763.0.html

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2013, 01:52:05 am »
I've post these designs of mine to know your guys opinions.

So the next one is real proposal with my iteration of it.
The Proposed pre ww1 Coastal Battleship design for the Romanian navy: ('ive used the Hungarian SMS Zrínyi as the base)



The history:

Before the First World War The Romanian Navy wanted to expand it's capacity so a plan was initiated in 1912:
This called for 6 Light Cruisers of 3500ton (None begun) 12 Destroyers of 1500ton of which 4 started and only 2 arrived and one submarine. Other plans were even more unrealistic calling for a battleship of 13.000tons armed with 4-305mm, 4-203mm and 12-150mm Guns.

So I decided to draw this Romanian Battleship Proposal which I call Bucaresti Class and based on the Austro-Hungarian Radetzky class, just a bit smaller change the twin 240mm Turrets into single 203mm ones and one large single funnel instead of two smaller ones.
Information from the article from Conway's All the World Fighting ships, 1906-1921

On another forum I've been noted of the bad idea for a single large funnel but no explanation added.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 01:54:45 am by Tzoli »

Offline Antonio

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2013, 02:16:48 am »
The problem with whatif is confusion. I think a high knowledge about real historic facts is required to enjoy about whatif possibilities. When the basis for whatif are little known unbuilt projects the effort could left my mind exhausted.

Personally I'd love better to know about the original unbuilt projects...


Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2013, 02:28:50 am »
The problem with whatif is confusion. I think a high knowledge about real historic facts is required to enjoy about whatif possibilities. When the basis for whatif are little known unbuilt projects the effort could left my mind exhausted.

Personally I'd love better to know about the original unbuilt projects...

That all the text said, no drawing no exact data, just displacement and guns

Offline Tzoli

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2013, 01:25:14 am »
Another pair of drawing/coloured drawing

Based on my friend's idea on an enlarged Baltimore with 4x3 8inch guns
Equipped with 4x3 8inch, 8x2 5inch and 10x4 40mm Guns (Baltimore had 3x3 8inch, 6x2 5inch and 12x4 40mm Guns)
I call her New Haven class I had used the Baltimore as a basis but introduce some changes seen on the real follow up classes like the Oregon City and Des Moines classes.



Offline Jemiba

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Re: TZoli's Warship Designs
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2013, 03:27:25 am »
On another forum I've been noted of the bad idea for a single large funnel but no explanation added.

At first glance, due to its single funnel, it looked to me, what I would expect the HMS Agammenon/Lord Nelson
to look like after a refit ŕ la HMS Barham during the 1920s.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...