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Author Topic: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects  (Read 14296 times)

Offline kiradog

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German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« on: January 30, 2013, 11:14:07 am »
I have a series of poor images showing images of the BT series of what I gather are Torpedo/Bombs- BT200, BT400 and EB1400

I can find virtually nothing about these.  Can someone in the group shed some light on these?

Thanx in advance

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2013, 01:12:36 pm »
Hi

Offline Johnbr

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Re: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2013, 07:32:43 pm »
Great stuff Justo

Offline kiradog

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Re: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2013, 07:58:50 pm »
Thanx for the info. 

Offline Grzesio

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Re: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2013, 01:28:40 am »
There's sadly a lot of misinformation in what Justo posted.
Except for some plans, neither Pi-Mz nor Unterwasserzuender were used in BTs. The Pi-MZ was actually found inappropriate for the BT and could not be used at all, while the Uw.Z. was not even tested. Operational BT models used standard delayed action electrical bomb fuze, mounted on a fuselage side. Generally not hydrostatic, but time, distance and proximity fuzes were considered usable.
There's no physical possibility for a BT dropped from 200 m in a 20 degrees dive to cover 2800 m, especially that the underwater trajectory was only 50-100 m long - a BT dropped this way at 600 km/h would enter the water after after some 450 m of flight. BTs were to be dropped from a climb, not dive.
Only bigger BTs (1000+) were made from welded steel plates, smaller had cast warheads.
The BT 1000 RS did not actually reach 960 km/h, this value refers to max. velocity at which usual BT could be dropped.
I don't know if BT 1850s were used against Remagen bridge, but smaller BTs were to be used (and probably were indeed) by III./KG 200 against sea targets in northern Europe.

The last picture posted by kiradog shows an EB (Eintauchbombe), not BT (Bombentorpedo) - a similar projectile developed by Henschel, while BTs came from FGZ. These are really amazing photos! :D

Regards

Grzesio
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 03:08:44 am by Grzesio »

Offline Michel Van

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Re: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2013, 05:41:07 am »
there also this picture



a Me 163B with two torpedoes


in 1992 they Discover in Aerodynamische Versuch Anstalt (AVA) at Göttingen several Files notes.
of Windchannel Model of a Me 163B with 2 Torpedo  Bomb's type BT1000.

one note was of a conference between engineer Hubert (from Messerschmitt) and professor Betz from AVA
"its necessary to check the Stability Me 163B with BT1000 in a Windchannel Test"
"the soon use of Plane against Shiptarget deepens of that Test Result"
"The Model is Ready middle of February for Test of 2 Day duration.
"A longer Test has to be interrupt,  because of not urgent." signature  mister Hildenbrand.
the note is date 9 February 1944.
more Files notes and Photos show this Test was made

A letter from 22. September 1944 from Junkers "Flugzeugwerke und Motorenwerke" to AVA
say they receive the test result from February

the BT1000 Bomb Torpedo's
1000 kg Bomb rocket for land and sea Target
from Research's institute Graf Zeppelin in Stuttgart-Ruit

the Pilot or Bomber used a special developed "Reflexvisier" from Drop height depend the BT1000 fly 3000 Meter far
the BT1000 was Propelled by Solid rocket build by company "Rheinmetall"

Source: Flug Revue April 1992 page 49
Source: Picture Stüdienbüro für Luftfahrt, Feiler
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2409.msg21374.html#msg21374
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Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2013, 08:24:52 am »
 :'(

Offline Jemiba

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Re: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2013, 12:04:50 pm »
In "Der Flieger", August 1963 was an article about tests with the Fw 190 and the BT-1400.
A drawing and a (probably authentic) photo is attached.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Jemiba

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Re: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2013, 02:10:02 am »
In the book „Me 262“   by Willy Radinger and Walter Schick, I've found a drawing showing the
Me 262 with a number of stores, including the BT 700:
« Last Edit: May 07, 2013, 04:18:29 am by Jemiba »
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Jemiba

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Re: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2013, 04:21:26 am »
... and the dedicated "Schnellbomber" variant of the Me 262 is shown with the BT 700, too,
on what quite probably is the facsimile of an original drawing (from "Flugzeug Classic Special 11")
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Wurger

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Re: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2013, 09:39:22 am »
Hi Jens,
does "Flugzeug Classic Special 11!" include other goodies :) ?

Offline Jemiba

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Re: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2013, 06:45:33 am »
In Manfred Griehls „Typenkompass – Deutsche Raketen und Lenkwaffen“ the BT series is mentioned, too of course,
with a sideview of an Arado Ar 234 C-3 carrying a BT 1400 and a photo of a test drop from a Bf 110. The latter
maybe sutable to confirm Grzesios statement, that the bomb torpedo was released from a (slight) climb.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline @ndrew

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Re: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2016, 11:52:45 am »
Photos posted by Kiradog were made in T.W.P. = Torpedo Waffen Platz Gotenhafen-Hexengrund.
BTW do the come from T1022?

Offline @ndrew

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Re: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2016, 09:58:47 am »
It looks that BT1400rs has the same rocket engine as PC100rs-right?

Offline Grzesio

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Re: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2016, 07:04:56 am »
But was there a BT 1400 RS?  :D
I've only heard about the BT 1000 RS, and yes, the engine was generally the same as in the RhB rocket assisted AP bombs - with six nozzles and a central ring nozzle acting as a reduction valve.
By the way - this Me 163 B wind tunnel model is apparently equipped with the BT 1000 RS, even if they are called BT 1000 in original drawings.

By the way 2 - something is wrong with the BT 1000 data posted by Justo above - the warhead seems to be far too short compared to the overall length.

By the way 3 - do we know how the BT 1400 looked like? Available representations differ one from another, particularly in the tail section area, is there a convincing drawing of the era?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 07:18:46 am by Grzesio »

Offline @ndrew

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Re: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2016, 01:19:38 pm »
Here are informations with exact total lenght, diameter of BTs:
BT200 2395, 495
BT400 2946, 624
BT700 3358, 752
BT1400 4560, 1265
BT1800 4690, ?

I hope to surprise You with new informations during this weekend.

Grzesio-have You found any more detailed info about EB? I mean sketch or photos?

Regards
@ndrew

Offline Grzesio

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Re: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2016, 05:05:07 am »
So, waiting for the surprise B) , an illustration of the BT 1400 riddle.

1. Most common representation, continuously being repeated by scale plan authors and model makers. Very close to an enlarged BT 700, while warhead dimensions are completely different from available data, e.g. the conical section is too long.
2. OP-1666 - interesting representation of the fins, while the warhead is far too slim.
3. A 1963 drawing from Der Flieger, presented above. Even more interesting tail section. :)
4. Original German drawing of the Ar 234 armed with BT 1400. I am sadly unable to interpret details of the the tail section, which seems to be surprisingly complex in shape. Warhead dimensions and fin span are perfectly accurate, though. Also the suspension lug placement matches centre of mass location.
5. My own proposition based on OP-1666 and Ar 234 drawings.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 05:06:48 am by Grzesio »

Offline @ndrew

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Re: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2016, 12:21:52 pm »
Hello,

today Polish Navy Museum in Gdynia organised recovery of 2 Bombentorpedoes type BT1000 from ex-Torpedowaffenplatz Gotenhafen Hexengrund (today Gdynia Babie-Doły).
So far it looks that these pieces are the only one existing till now.
2 BTs were without engine which was recovered earlier. It has solid propellant. There was no fins attached to the main body.
We hope some new items to be found in future  ;)


Regards
@ndrew

Offline Grey Havoc

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Re: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2016, 12:25:35 pm »
I'm somewhat surprised that the Soviets overlooked them.
The sole imperative of a government, once instituted, is to survive.

Offline @ndrew

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Re: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2016, 12:55:42 pm »
It was covered by earth. Due to the fact it was inside gorge where the ground still is unstable it poped-up itself.
I think some could be abonded by German and later captured by Soviets but there are not good sources on this subject.

Offline @ndrew

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Re: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2016, 11:59:48 am »
Here are close-ups on second survived engine from BT.
It seems that it's peeled off external skin.
Green colour covers inner tube.

Offline Wurger

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Re: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2016, 12:13:59 pm »
Great stuff!!

Online Foo Fighter

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Re: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2016, 02:12:30 pm »
Any inference to the squall (Skvall ?) rocket torpedo?

Offline Grzesio

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Re: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2016, 03:38:26 pm »
None.
The engine was intended for increasing velocity after release from an aircraft, thus flight distance.

Quote
It seems that it's peeled off external skin.
Yes, it is. What a shame.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 03:41:07 pm by Grzesio »

Online Foo Fighter

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Re: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2016, 04:34:46 pm »
Thanks.

Offline @ndrew

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Re: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2016, 12:11:55 am »
Quick ad hoc assembly in museum:

Offline Grzesio

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Re: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2016, 08:15:53 am »
And a kind of rough reconstruction, made years before the BTs were recovered. :)

Offline sgeorges4

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Re: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2018, 09:36:06 am »
Who where the aircraft who where proposed for the BT 400 bomb?

Offline Grzesio

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Re: German BT (Torpedo/Bomb) Projects
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2018, 06:28:14 am »
Fw 190 F-8/U2 (renamed into Fw-190 F-8/R15 in the end of 1944) had to carry two BT 400 under the wings. A handful of these aircraft was actiually delivered to III./KG 200 till April 1945.
Ar 234 B-2 was also considered in the summer of 1944 for carrying two BT 400 under the nacelles (plus Magirusbombe gun pod under the fuselage).