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Author Topic: AIM-120 AMRAAM projects  (Read 42935 times)

Online sferrin

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Re: AIM-120 AMRAAM projects
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2010, 08:54:02 am »
Then someone at AvWeek needs to be slapped for not doing their research.

Wouldn't be the first time. Won't be the last.
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Offline Colonial-Marine

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Re: AIM-120 AMRAAM projects
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2010, 04:42:14 pm »
Looking at the line up showing the FMRAAM, ERAAM, and AMRAAM, I must wonder why the United States didn't invest in either FMRAAM or ERAAM? It sounds like either would have been a significant improvement.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2010, 04:43:54 pm by Colonial-Marine »
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Offline Abraham Gubler

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Re: AIM-120 AMRAAM projects
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2010, 05:37:24 pm »
Of course the 1st quesiton is "why not an AAM"?  I'd think an Eagle could carry four on the fuselage where AIM-7s use to go.

No chance of the later just too big, too heavy and too draggy for conformal carriage. Its an ESSM missile with an AMRAAM seeker. As to why doesn't USAF order something like this with an air to air range of >200 NM? Because does it need it and could it even use it? Very long range active homing missiles are beloved by people who never have to fire one. The missile takes time to get from A to B and during that time the target can do a lot of stuff. Now if that time of flight is now 2-3 times longer than the longest range AMRAAM engagements then you giving a lot more time for the target to evade and significantly increasing your difficulty of tracking the target and updating the missile. To the extent that it just doesn't become worthwhile and you are throwing away multi million dollar missiles. For example the CWI Sky Flash had higher Pk than a non data linked AIM-120A (and therefore non target location updated) from Tornado ADVs at interception ranges of 25 NM. All this is why you won't see a serious high Pk long range (>200 NM) missile until hypersonics are ready.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2011, 10:44:07 pm by overscan »
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Online sferrin

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Re: AIM-120 AMRAAM projects
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2010, 07:26:40 pm »
Of course the 1st quesiton is "why not an AAM"?  I'd think an Eagle could carry four on the fuselage where AIM-7s use to go.

No chance of the later just too big, too heavy and too draggy for conformal carriage. Its an ESSM missile with an AMRAAM seeker. As to why doesn't USAF order something like this with an air to air range of >200 NM? Because does it need it and could it even use it? Very long range active homing missiles are beloved by people who never have to fire one. The missile takes time to get from A to B and during that time the target can do a lot of stuff. Now if that time of flight is now 2-3 times longer than the longest range AMRAAM engagements then you giving a lot more time for the target to evade and significantly increasing your difficulty of tracking the target and updating the missile.

Wouldn't SM-6 have to deal with this?  Why wouldn't this thing have mid-course updates available like any other AIM-120 or SM-6?   As for the weight, ESSM weighs in at ~625lbs IIRC which is significantly less than Phoenix, not to mention much slimmer. 
« Last Edit: June 29, 2010, 07:33:38 pm by sferrin »
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Offline Abraham Gubler

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Re: AIM-120 AMRAAM projects
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2010, 07:35:17 pm »
I like to be a giver more than a taker so enjoy:
« Last Edit: November 26, 2011, 10:45:13 pm by overscan »
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Offline Abraham Gubler

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Re: AIM-120 AMRAAM projects
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2010, 07:40:41 pm »
Wouldn't SM-6 have to deal with this?  Why wouldn't this thing have mid-course updates available like any other AIM-120 or SM-6?   As for the weight, ESSM weighs in at ~625lbs IIRC which is significantly less than Phoenix, not to mention much slimmer. 

SM-6 is a completely different missile with a modified seeker and different long range terminal engagement thanks to a lot more room in the nose of an SM-2 and money to spend in a USN funded project. It also does not have >200 NM engagement range and a much more energetic motors that reduces its time of flight over similar range compared to even an air launched ESSM. As to the weights and sizes of the Phoenix you forgot to mention length which is a major consideration for conformal F-15C carriage. Also the F-15C does not carry Phoenix missiles…
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Online sferrin

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Re: AIM-120 AMRAAM projects
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2010, 07:51:15 pm »
Wouldn't SM-6 have to deal with this?  Why wouldn't this thing have mid-course updates available like any other AIM-120 or SM-6?   As for the weight, ESSM weighs in at ~625lbs IIRC which is significantly less than Phoenix, not to mention much slimmer. 

SM-6 is a completely different missile with a modified seeker and different long range terminal engagement thanks to a lot more room in the nose of an SM-2 and money to spend in a USN funded project. It also does not have >200 NM engagement range and a much more energetic motors that reduces its time of flight over similar range compared to even an air launched ESSM. As to the weights and sizes of the Phoenix you forgot to mention length which is a major consideration for conformal F-15C carriage. Also the F-15C does not carry Phoenix missiles…

I'm aware that the F-15 never carried Phoenix in service.  My point in comparing it to Phoenix is that it's a lot smaller, and while it's wasn't light it wasn't such a boat anchor that the Tomcat never carried it.  As for length it's (RIM-162) the same as AIM-7 (which the Eagle carried conformally.)   You're talking about ~125lbs more than an AIM-7 for significantly more range.
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Offline quellish

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Re: AIM-120 AMRAAM projects
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2010, 08:25:06 pm »
Supposedly SENIOR BLUE was an AMRAAM project for an anti-AWACS variant, but I have never been able to find anything other than rumors. I've had more luck connecting the BLU-114/B submunition to that PE code.
Nonetheless, the rumor is still kicking around.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2011, 10:46:13 pm by overscan »

Offline seruriermarshal

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Re: AIM-120 AMRAAM projects
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2012, 04:49:35 pm »
Need more photo about AIM-120D .

Offline bobbymike

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Re: AIM-120 AMRAAM projects
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2015, 12:43:45 am »
Next Gen AMRAAM Completes Operational Testing

4/10/2015

Raytheon, Air Force, and Navy testers recently completed operational test and evaluation of the latest Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM) variant, paving the way for its initial operational capability, the company announced. "The AIM-120D represents a significant improvement in air-to-air weapons capabilities and the technologies it brings to the battlefield ...  in the air-to-air arena," company program director Ron Krebs said in an​ April 9 release. The missile performed outstandingly in a variety of challenging air-to-air scenarios across the spectrum of flight profiles, leading the Air Force to clear it for operational use, according to Raytheon. The Navy already declared AIM-120D IOC and plans to deploy the missile this year. The AIM-120D variant offers improved range, GPS-assisted guidance, updated datalinks, and jam resistance, in addition to greater lethality. Operational testing resumed in 2013 after earlier software and hardware glitches were addressed.
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Offline Dragon029

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Re: AIM-120 AMRAAM projects
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2015, 01:41:17 am »
Do we know when the AIM-120D is meant to reach IOC?

Offline bring_it_on

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Re: AIM-120 AMRAAM projects
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2015, 06:33:14 am »
Do we know when the AIM-120D is meant to reach IOC?

Quote
The latest version of the Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile, the AIM-120D, has been declared operational by the Air Force and Navy and now the program office is looking to add new electronic-attack protections through a software upgrade recently fielded on the AIM-120C7.
The services made positive fielding decisions on the Air Force F-15 and Navy F/A-18 in January after several rounds of optional testing in 2014, according to the Air Force's Program Executive Officer for Weapons Maj. Gen. Scott Jansson.
"The assets are being fielded as we speak," Jansson said in a March 26 phone interview with Inside the Air Force. "We continue to upgrade the AMRAAM to keep up with the latest threats."
AMRAAM is produced by Raytheon in Tucson, AZ, and has been in production since 1991 as the Defense Department's primary long-range, air-to-air weapon system.
The AIM-120D is the latest and most sophisticated variant. It entered development in 2004 and has greater range, maneuverability and accuracy compared to the current version, the AIM-120C7.
The program office recently received clearance to move the AIM-120D into full production. Last week, Raytheon received a $529 million contract for Lot 29 on top of the $491 million the company received last December for Lot 28. The contracts include orders for AMRAAM foreign military sales customers that are approved to procure prior versions of the AIM-120.
According to Jansson, the AMRAAM program is in good shape. He said the focus has now shifted toward hardening the AIM-120D against new forms of electronic attack.
In February, Air Combat Command began fielding an improved AIM-120C7. The missile has software changes for electronic protection, and a similar software load will be rolled into the AIM-120D line through an Electronic Protection Improvement Program.
"That capability is out there and will be incorporated into the D-model version of the missile as well, and that helps to address some of the latest electronic-attack capabilities that some of our potential adversaries are developing," Jansson said.
"That's what we expect to see on the AMRAAM for years to come . . . to keep ahead of some of the latest developments in the electronic-attack world to keep the missile reliable and its probability of weapons effectiveness, or kill rate, up where we want it to be," he added.
Raytheon has delivered more than 1,000 AIM-120Ds, according to a recent report by the Pentagon's director of operational test and evaluation.
There are several science and technology projects that aim to develop a next-generation AMRAAM capability, possibly an extended-range variant or even a completely new missile. Raytheon recently announced its development of a ground-launched AMRAAM-ER for air defense.
Jansson said DOD's current program would procure the AIM-120 at least through 2024. What type of capability comes next is not yet clear, he said.
"AMRAAM itself has got a fairly long future ahead of it," he said.
The Pentagon has spent more than $13.4 billion on AMRAAM since the program's inception in the late 1980s and the balance of the program is estimated at about $5.9 billion, according to the Pentagon's Selected Acquisition Report summary table for fiscal year 2014. DOD plans to spend $664 million on AMRAAM in FY-16 and $684 million in FY-17. -- James Drew

http://insidedefense.com/inside-air-force/raytheons-new-aim-120d-amraam-declared-ready-battle

Also from the article a couple of posts above this -

The Navy already declared AIM-120D IOC and plans to deploy the missile this year.
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Online sferrin

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Re: AIM-120 AMRAAM projects
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2015, 08:38:58 am »
Not only that but they've already delivered 1000 of them.  :o
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Offline Dragon029

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Re: AIM-120 AMRAAM projects
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2015, 04:57:18 pm »
Sweet, I was just getting a bit confused by integration plans for the various platforms that intend to use it. This is getting slightly off-topic, but is the -120D being included with the F-35's SDD or Block 3F loadout? I've only ever seen "AIM-120" or "AIM-120C" being used in literature, but on the same token, the former term could mean all variants and the latter could be referencing the -120C7 designation.

Offline SpudmanWP

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Re: AIM-120 AMRAAM projects
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2015, 05:13:16 pm »
The SDD plans and software were being designed before the 120D was available, so that's a Block  timeframe before the 120D gets to the F-35.


That being said, the C7 program continues to get upgrades, especially to it's seeker and ECCM capabilities (all software based) so that C7 that files in the F-35 is better than the first C7 from years back.


Thankfully, when the next version of UAI get's done, it will bring A2A weapons into the realm of no longer needing block upgrades in order to get integrated.
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