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Author Topic: USAF T-36A trainer (Beechcraft Model 46 / Canadair CL-60)  (Read 21485 times)

Offline Jos Heyman

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Re: USAF T-36A trainer (Beechcraft Model 46 / Canadair CL-60)
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2009, 02:46:13 pm »
It is also interestintg to note that the hangar photo does not display a serial or civilian registration. Surely, if this was the prototype to be flown, it would have had some identification os fome sorts. May be the hangar photo was the mock-up. Btw, does anybody know the serials?

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: USAF T-36A trainer (Beechcraft Model 46 / Canadair CL-60)
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2009, 02:58:41 pm »
Not only the military serials for the prototypes are unknown (though I suspect 51-398/399 as a possible candidate, or perhaps 52-2125/2126), but the Beechcraft manufacturing numbers are also undocumented. It really seems like everyone wanted to obliterate that bird from memory...  :-[
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 03:00:47 pm by Stargazer2006 »

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: USAF T-36A trainer (Beechcraft Model 46 / Canadair CL-60)
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2009, 03:05:50 pm »
No trace of an order for 195 aircraft anywhere in 1951 or 1952. The closest is 52-5531/5728, which represents 197 aircraft (perhaps the first or last two of that slot were prototypes for a different type?).

Offline Bailey

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Re: USAF T-36A trainer (Beechcraft Model 46 / Canadair CL-60)
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2009, 12:09:35 am »
The other question that has not been answered, is were there any competitors for the contract, who were they and what were they? Cessna and Fairchild perhaps?
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored" - Aldous Huxley.

Offline Jos Heyman

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Re: USAF T-36A trainer (Beechcraft Model 46 / Canadair CL-60)
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2009, 01:11:58 pm »
As far as the serials are concerned: I have 51-398/399 as cancelled KC-97F. Perhaps 52-5531/5728 is the best bet.

Offline walter

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Re: USAF T-36A trainer (Beechcraft Model 46 / Canadair CL-60)
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2009, 05:09:36 pm »
Stargazer2006`s remark that the T-36A could also have been ordered by the RCAF, may be substantiated by attached picture. I got it from my friend Nico Braas who added that it comes from official Canadair PR material.
Enjoy it and don`t you love all this digging in history?  ;D

Offline aim9xray

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Re: USAF T-36A trainer (Beechcraft Model 46 / Canadair CL-60)
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2009, 10:10:36 pm »
And a jet version, as well!

Offline circle-5

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Re: USAF T-36A trainer (Beechcraft Model 46 / Canadair CL-60)
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2009, 10:23:46 pm »
Neat-O!  Thank you aim9xray.

Offline Bailey

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Re: USAF T-36A trainer (Beechcraft Model 46 / Canadair CL-60)
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2009, 12:15:58 am »
Thank you guys.  :D
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored" - Aldous Huxley.

Offline EEP1A

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Re: USAF T-36A trainer (Beechcraft Model 46 / Canadair CL-60)
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2009, 03:48:41 am »
Found. a photo to prove it did exist ! :D

From here http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=17&page=93

Not the best quality....but the best we've got.



Actually I started a thread of Beech Aircraft T-36A on November 2006, without any reply.

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1109.0/highlight,t-36.html

At that time I posted the same photo which I took from an old US aviation magazine (forgot the name). This is an advertisement of Beech Aircraft Corporation and it clearly states that this is a photo of Mock-up Inspection group posed in front of the dummy or mock-up T-36A prototype.

EEP1A

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: USAF T-36A trainer (Beechcraft Model 46 / Canadair CL-60)
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2009, 05:05:52 am »
Thanks for the info, and sorry for not finding your initial thread via the search engine.

The fact that some pictures depict the mock-up and not one of the two prototypes may account for the different dihedral of the rudders.

Offline frank

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Re: USAF T-36A trainer (Beechcraft Model 46 / Canadair CL-60)
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2009, 08:06:26 am »

     It looks like his subject is "T-36A" where this one is "T-36". IIRC this search engine is fairly sensitive to designation, so if you searched for only "T-36", it's no wonder it didn't find "T-36A". The same issue wouldn't have found "T36" w/o the dash or "T.36", with a period, as many posters use.


Thanks for the info, and sorry for not finding your initial thread via the search engine.

The fact that some pictures depict the mock-up and not one of the two prototypes may account for the different dihedral of the rudders.

Offline Jos Heyman

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Re: USAF T-36A trainer (Beechcraft Model 46 / Canadair CL-60)
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2009, 06:51:45 pm »
1. Flight issue of 19 June 1953 (p. 772) states that 227 Canadair T-36As were cancelled.
2. Serials 52-5531/5728 represents 198 aircraft, not 197 aircraft. The formula for calculation this is 5728-5531+1. (Always include both numbers in the calculation, eg 10-1 is 9 according to mathematics, but it represents 10 fingers on your hand).
3. There are too many unknown serials blocks in FY 1952 to make educated guesses.
4. Just a thought. Did Beech actually built an aircraft or only a mock-up and static models. This may account for the absence of a serial number on that one photo we have. Note that the aircraft on that pghoto is supported by struts, a good indication that it is a mock-up.
5. Please check the reference again that suggests that the cancellation was made 'hours before the first flight', an improvement over 'three days' as quoted in the other source. Common sense tells me that if after all that work of building an aircraft and making preliminary tests (assuming these took place), you are not going to stop the first flight because your customer does not want the aircraft anymore. At least proof that your design functioned well. May be somebody assumed the 'hours before first flight' idea at one stage and that happily became 'fact' with the passing of time. Would not be the first time.....
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 07:01:13 pm by Jos Heyman »

Offline Jos Heyman

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Re: USAF T-36A trainer (Beechcraft Model 46 / Canadair CL-60)
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2009, 07:08:06 pm »
By the way, Canadair knew the T-26A as CL-15. There is also a reference to the CL-15A with 2 Armstrong Mamba engines. This might have been the RCAF version.

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: USAF T-36A trainer (Beechcraft Model 46 / Canadair CL-60)
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2009, 07:35:37 pm »
By the way, Canadair knew the T-26A as CL-15. There is also a reference to the CL-15A with 2 Armstrong Mamba engines. This might have been the RCAF version.

Then why the CL-60 designation mentioned elsewhere?