Tanks converted to APCs?

[dan_inbox]

That engineer vehicle with the number 19 on it, I make it based on a T-54 but am uncertain, what is it please?

It's an Israeli Achzarit.

Yes. More precisely, it's an Achzarit Hatap, the ARV-cum-field-repair-workshop variant.

What makes so many things in the IDF "unique", is the amount of threats and needs, vs the amount of budget available.
As they say, necessity is the mother of invention. Make do with what you have.

Mix this and lots of highly engineering-educated boys within the threatened population, and you get all kind of weird gizmos from the cherry-picking duvdevan Sherman variant to the ERA to the Windbreaker. It produces everything from epic failures to huge successes, and anything in between.

 

[Foo Fighter]

That engineer vehicle with the number 19 on it, I make it based on a T-54 but am uncertain, what is it please?

It's an Israeli Achzarit.

Yes. More precisely, it's an Achzarit Hatap, the ARV-cum-field-repair-workshop variant.

What makes so many things in the IDF "unique", is the amount of threats and needs, vs the amount of budget available.
As they say, necessity is the mother of invention. Make do with what you have.

Mix this and lots of highly engineering-educated boys within the threatened population, and you get all kind of weird gizmos from the cherry-picking duvdevan Sherman variant to the ERA to the Windbreaker. It produces everything from epic failures to huge successes, and anything in between.

And drives folk like us to continually search as to, "Just what the bleeping hell have they made NOW"? Fascinating stuff.

 

[World B4]

MAP Heavy Armored Personnel Carrier | Military-Today.com

The MAP or Multi-purpose Armored Platform heavy armored personnel carrier was developed by KADDB. It is a conversion of Jordanian Tariq (Centurion) tank. Vehicle can carry 11 fully-equipped troops.

www.military-today.com

 

[SleeperService2]

Around 200 Churchills were converted post war, I'll dig out my research on this if anyone wants to see it.

SRJ.

I would be very interested in any information on this vehicle. I started a model in 1/48 but I'm struggling for details. 200? WOW!

 

[uk 75]

The Canadian Kangaroo Armoured Personnel Carrier

The Canadian Kangaroo Armoured Personnel Carrierwas a hastily converted APC from surplus tanks during World War 2, such as RAM, Priest and Churchill tanks.

tanknutdave.com

picture of the Churchill apc here

 

[Cordy]

Another the 2008 Israeli Namer armoured personnel carrier based on a Merkava Mk IV chassis tank chassis, if memory correct the Merkava used a front engine making conversion to APC much easier

 

[dan_inbox]

Another the 2008 Israeli Namer armoured personnel carrier based on a Merkava Mk IV chassis tank chassis

However the namer is a new-production vehicle, not a converted tank.
Conversely, the Ofek is a conversion of old merkava 2 tanks.

 

[JohnR]

I prefer the Namer and Temsah concepts to MAP simply for the front mounted door. It seems to be totally insane to have an exit which is in the direct line of fire to opposing force, which only allow one man at a time to disembark.

 

[Newtonk]

Seaslug, I’m keen on seeing that research on the Churchill APC too, please.

And, for those who like the Ofek, here’s a top view...

 

[SeaslugMk2]

I did write a paragraph about it on my website back in November 2018; there was an intention to convert up to 300 into APCs over a 30 month period starting in 1952, at a cost of just over £1300 each. 200 were converted, and they were retained until there were sufficient Saracens to replace them in the late 1950s.
Here's a page from the file in The National Archives file (WO 32/13573 -it hasn't been digitised) which contains hand written comments from a senior officer...who, from his note against paragraph 3, obviously has never had to ride in anything like an APC!



I'm happy to post all the pages I photographed if anyone wants them.

SRJ.

 

[SeaslugMk2]

Around 200 Churchills were converted post war, I'll dig out my research on this if anyone wants to see it.

SRJ.

I would be very interested in any information on this vehicle. I started a model in 1/48 but I'm struggling for details. 200? WOW!

I can't help you very much as there weren't any photographs in the file but if you just make a square cut-out between the drivers position and the engine bulkhead you won't go far wrong. The picture in Wikipedia is rather poor and doesn't show the rails fitted to allow the troops to mount the beast. You could always model it with the tilt cover fitted!

SRJ.

 

[Foo Fighter]

" I'm happy to post all the pages I photographed if anyone wants them".

Pretty please?

 

[Newtonk]

I’m curious about the rails, and where these were located on the hull. The image above, and your description of a square cut out at the turret ring, is clear. And, I expect that all internal fittings that were extraneous were removed, too. I’m hoping that in the written description, the height and length of the wooden screens is given. Thank you

 

[SeaslugMk2]

I have attached the [first 15*] pictures of the relevant papers from the file, they start at number 7 because I renamed the first 6. I hope these are of use/interest.

*Discovered the limit of 15 attachments; the rest will come later.



SRJ.

 

[JohnR]

In terms of Heavy APC's, I have always intrigued by the FV-212 Assault Personnel Carrier (I have asked about them before). I had wondered if it would be a 'Kangaroo' configuration or a more modern engine forward like the Namer. Since seeing the F215b with the centre mounted engine, I've wondered if this would have been the configuration used.

 

[SleeperService2]

Very interesting stuff in those files. Interesting that somebody had thought about the PBI both for padded seats and keeping the armour strip each side for head cover, steadying while firing to the side.
Sad that so soon after a major conflict the beauracrats were already taking firm control from a distance.
Thanks for the stuff so far and I look forward to more. I had hoped to get to Kew soon but looks like that isn't going to happen.

 

[SleeperService2]

I did write a paragraph about it on my website back in November 2018; there was an intention to convert up to 300 into APCs over a 30 month period starting in 1952, at a cost of just over £1300 each. 200 were converted, and they were retained until there were sufficient Saracens to replace them in the late 1950s.
SRJ.

I assume that "Western Union" was a Project Code for the FV3901: Churchill Linked ARK. I thought your page looked familiar and found a copy on Tapatalk. It took me a few seconds to join the dots

 

[Fluff]

Love the language, bodies (live).....

 

[A Tentative Fleet Plan]

I did write a paragraph about it on my website back in November 2018; there was an intention to convert up to 300 into APCs over a 30 month period starting in 1952, at a cost of just over £1300 each. 200 were converted, and they were retained until there were sufficient Saracens to replace them in the late 1950s.
SRJ.

I assume that "Western Union" was a Project Code for the FV3901: Churchill Linked ARK. I thought your page looked familiar and found a copy on Tapatalk. It took me a few seconds to join the dots

I am assuming in this case "Western Union" refers to the predecessor to NATO. I imagine that a number of Churchills were part of the forces assigned to the Western Union Defence Organisation.

 

[JohnR]

Another query from me, what's the meaning of PBI?

 

[Fluff]

I think its poor bloody infantry....

 

[Fluff]

If youve ever had a tank drive, you will know why most infantry just walk.....

 

[SleeperService2]

And we can hide more easily...

 

[JohnR]

If youve ever had a tank drive, you will know why most infantry just walk.....

Never had a drive in a tank but went on a cross country jeep safari in Malta. When it was over I felt like my kidney's were in the back of my neck, so I dread to think.

 

[Jason Dykstra (Wyvern)]

I'm from Malta, and I can say that JohnR is correct. The roads here are about as good as our government.............absolute crap.

 

[Foo Fighter]

If youve ever had a tank drive, you will know why most infantry just walk.....

A quote from an old Yorkshireman, "Third class driving is better than first class walking every day". Spent quite a lot of time in tanks across county, some of it even while being shot at and never noticed what you would call a bad ride even as loader/radio op with no actual seat.

 

[SeaslugMk2]

And (at last) here are some more of the pictures.


To be continued....
SRJ

 

[SeaslugMk2]

And here are the rest of the pictures.




I hope they're of interest/use!

SRJ.

 

[CJGibson]

Takes Hill Billy armour to the extreme. You'll be telling me the steering is in the BTR a la Top Gear.

Bet it confused Hellfire and Brimstone!

Chris

 

[SleeperService2]

Thank you once again SeaslugMk2

Interesting to see the Comet mentioned as an alternative and Churchill VI too. I need to digest this feast of information you have so kindly shared. Thank You again

 

[JohnR]

The Comet would have been substantially faster that the Churchill, although how 'bouncy' the ride would have been?

 

[Newtonk]

An M 50 as an APC,

 

[JohnR]

I can't really tell from the photo, but has the hull top been cut back (looks like to the engine bulkhead) to enlarge the crew access?

 

[drejr]

I suspect it's an illusion caused by the raised shield around the turret ring.

 

[Apophenia]

I can't really tell from the photo, but has the hull top been cut back (looks like to the engine bulkhead) to enlarge the crew access?

From page 25 or 35 (of the pdf) Surviving Post-WWII Israeli Vehicles Based On Sherman Tanks.

http://the.shadock.free.fr%2FSurviving_Israeli_Shermans.pdf

 

[Newtonk]

Great link, thank you for that. Incredible shots of the 160mm mortar Makmat.

 

[JWilly]

How many countries converted turreted tanks to Armoured Personnel Carriers?

We know about the Canadian "Kangaroos" made from de-frocked M7 Priests and Ram tanks during the summer of 1944. Many Rams were also converted to "Wombat" ammo carriers.
Post WW2, Sweden converted a Czech 38T light tanks to Bv 301 APCs.
Brazil converted US Army surplus M3 Stuart light tanks to X1A with 90 mm guns and at least one M3 was converted to carry a 120 mm mortar. It looked like a smaller version of M113, but with only 4 road wheels per side. How many M3s did Brazil convert to APCs?
Post 1967, Israel converted a variety of Shermans, Centurions and T-54 to APCs.

Can anyone name any other turreted tank to APC conversions?

The presented list omits the Sherman Kangaroo conversions by the Brits in Italy and subsequently, or Stuarts in North Africa, Italy and subsequently.

I've heard it said that there were US field conversions of Shermans with defunct turrets for use as better-protected APCs in the van of attack-advances liable to be subject to flank fire, in two particular contexts...Market Garden, and the Bastogne relief fight. I've not seen photographic proof of either, though.

 

[Newtonk]

Huh? You want interior images of the Ofek, too? Ok, here ya go...

Found these on an Israeli website whilst looking for something else, always the way...

 

[riggerrob]

... The presented list omits the Sherman Kangaroo conversions by the Brits in Italy and subsequently, or Stuarts in North Africa, Italy and subsequently. ..."

Turretless Stuarts were primarily used for recce. Removing the turret substantially lowered their silhouette. Armament was reduced to two or three machine guns (.30 or .50 caliber) mounted on the old turret ring. They only carried two or three crew. Tracks gave them better mobility on bombed out roads.

The Canadian Army bought extra batches of turretless Stuarts and Shermans off the American Army post WW2 and used them well into the 1950s.
Considering the "defrocked" Stuarts' recce role, their replacement (early 1960s) by M113.5 Lynx were an obvious choice.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

There was the M39 utility carrier (eg., APC) built on the M 18 chassis...



It was used late in WW 2 and extensively in Korea.