Taiwan 5th-gen fighter studies

[KUMA]

Development of next generation fighter engine design technology

●Design of Swept-back fan stage

→Satisfy single stage compression ratio≥1.7, isentropic efficiency≥85%

●Design of Swept-back axial compressor

→Design three-dimensional shape of rotor blade which single stage compression ratio≥1.8, isentropic efficiency=88%

View attachment 687278

Are they from here http://www.acewings.com/cobrachen/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=6&TOPIC_ID=10476&#549439 ?

yes

 

[datafuser]

Development of next generation fighter engine design technology

●Design of Swept-back fan stage

→Satisfy single stage compression ratio≥1.7, isentropic efficiency≥85%

●Design of Swept-back axial compressor

→Design three-dimensional shape of rotor blade which single stage compression ratio≥1.8, isentropic efficiency=88%

View attachment 687278

Are they from here http://www.acewings.com/cobrachen/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=6&TOPIC_ID=10476&#549439 ?

yes

Any more info on this 'Taiwanese version of the F-35'?

When was it reported, by whom?

 

[helmutkohl]

I do think a Taiwanese "version of the F-35" could be a way to strengthen Taiwan, without upsetting the PRC
in a similar way how Israel kept making their Israelized Mirages (as Kfir and Nesher) via discreet help from Dassault.

 

[KUMA]

Development of next generation fighter engine design technology

●Design of Swept-back fan stage

→Satisfy single stage compression ratio≥1.7, isentropic efficiency≥85%

●Design of Swept-back axial compressor

→Design three-dimensional shape of rotor blade which single stage compression ratio≥1.8, isentropic efficiency=88%

View attachment 687278

Are they from here http://www.acewings.com/cobrachen/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=6&TOPIC_ID=10476&#549439 ?

yes

Any more info on this 'Taiwanese version of the F-35'?

When was it reported, by whom?

View attachment 687298

Regarding this report, first of all, the image should be inaccurate, but just found one at random.

Secondly, I have read all the materials of several technologies under development pointed out in the figure, and I think their technical level and progress are limited:

The F-35 like Nozzle according to the published research documents, they are still in the computer simulation stage of simple fixed curved nozzle.

American technical support may refer to RAM coating(like blackwolf project黑狼计划) and engine technical support(VEGA?).

"Imitation f-35 air inlet"I think it refers to their ongoing DSI inlet design research.

P.S.

I think you will be interested in this:

Stealth coatings they have had at least two research projects(庐山专案/黑狼计划).The coating that Black Wolf(黑狼) project to develop is said to have been covered on AT-3 trainer with the number of 0825. Now it has been restored to the original coating.

The following are the only photos of that special AT-3 during the Black Wolf Project, It is easy to find that this aircraft is obviously different from other aircraft of the same model in dark green coating:







KUMA

 

[KUMA]

Development of next generation fighter engine design technology

●Design of Swept-back fan stage

→Satisfy single stage compression ratio≥1.7, isentropic efficiency≥85%

●Design of Swept-back axial compressor

→Design three-dimensional shape of rotor blade which single stage compression ratio≥1.8, isentropic efficiency=88%

View attachment 687278

Are they from here http://www.acewings.com/cobrachen/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=6&TOPIC_ID=10476&#549439 ?

yes

Any more info on this 'Taiwanese version of the F-35'?

When was it reported, by whom?

View attachment 687298

Forgot to answer: I only know that the news is Reported by "Sanli News(三立新聞)"

I haven't found any information such as news videos and reporting time.

 

[datafuser]

Development of next generation fighter engine design technology

●Design of Swept-back fan stage

→Satisfy single stage compression ratio≥1.7, isentropic efficiency≥85%

●Design of Swept-back axial compressor

→Design three-dimensional shape of rotor blade which single stage compression ratio≥1.8, isentropic efficiency=88%

View attachment 687278

Are they from here http://www.acewings.com/cobrachen/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=6&TOPIC_ID=10476&#549439 ?

yes

Any more info on this 'Taiwanese version of the F-35'?

When was it reported, by whom?

View attachment 687298

Forgot to answer: I only know that the news is Reported by "Sanli News(三立新聞)"

I haven't found any information such as news videos and reporting time.

Thanks, I also tried to find that news article at https://www.setn.com/, but have not found it yet.

 

[KUMA]

Research on canopy stealth:

They made a Scale cockpit canopy model of F-22 by 3D printing, and after grinding and polishing, they put tinfoil paper on the inside, as a metal canopy model.Then they spread the FSS pattern with software, and made and pasted on the cockpit canopy for testing.

The test results are as follows:

RCS peak value of metal hatch model is -18.1dBsm.

The OT-RAS Stealth canopy with FSS is -25.6dBsm.

Overall decrease of 7.5dBsm.

 

[Maro.Kyo]

台版F-35四大進度　採大黃蜂雙引擎

空軍持續推動下一代戰機(ADF，先進防禦戰機)設計分析，據了解，軍方依據美國F-35外型，做出小型模型，已經完成風洞實驗等四大進展，前空軍副司令張延廷分析，在我方已經完成重型起落架情形下，應是採取奇異F414引擎雙發動機設計。

www.primenews.com.tw

Seems like Vega project to develop beeced up F125 is either on hold or scrapped, due to technical difficulties and subsequent cost increase. They plan to use twin F414 now. Airframe itself allegedly resembles F-35 (what do you expect, really)

 

[snne]

台版F-35四大進度　採大黃蜂雙引擎

空軍持續推動下一代戰機(ADF，先進防禦戰機)設計分析，據了解，軍方依據美國F-35外型，做出小型模型，已經完成風洞實驗等四大進展，前空軍副司令張延廷分析，在我方已經完成重型起落架情形下，應是採取奇異F414引擎雙發動機設計。

www.primenews.com.tw

Seems like Vega project to develop beeced up F125 is either on hold or scrapped, due to technical difficulties and subsequent cost increase. They plan to use twin F414 now. Airframe itself allegedly resembles F-35 (what do you expect, really)

Using F125s on a manned stealth jet...what were they thinking?!

 

[Maro.Kyo]

Using F125s on a manned stealth jet...what were they thinking?!

That's F125 upgraded under project Vega, not the baseline F125. That thing nears M88 levels of thrust and TWR

 

[snne]

That's F125 upgraded under project Vega, not the baseline F125. That thing nears M88 levels of thrust and TWR

M88s are still a tad bit underpowered though...and when the usual requirements for stealth aircraft are considered; I don't think this aircraft could've performed that well...

 

[kaiserbill]

M88s are still a tad bit underpowered though...and when the usual requirements for stealth aircraft are considered; I don't think this aircraft could've performed that well...

It depends on weight and size.
The Rafale (M88) is roughly twice the weight of the Ching Kuo, and has roughly twice the power.
Thus, both jets have a similar twr.

If they were going for F125 engines upgraded under Project Vega, the resultant aircraft planned would likely have been somewhere between the weight class of the Ching Kuo and Rafale.

I do understand that internal weapons carriage results in a more voluminous fuselage, and perhaps this is why changes to the engine were put in place.
The F125 is actually a good engine, considering.
The fact that the Taiwanese had so much experience with it made it a logical development leap-off point.

There were previous proposed developments of the F125, pushing thrust out to about 5000 kg dry, 7500 wet, placing it in the M88 or F404 bracket.
I can only assume Vega built on those foundations.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Funny enough, the ideal fighter for the Taiwanese is a stealth Viggen.

@VTOLicious Yes, the FAR-21 is fairly reasonable for Taiwan's use case, assuming that it's got a decently short takeoff and landing. Only problem is what engine to power it with. F414 is likely to get blocked by the US. So, EJ2X0 or M88 (my preference between those two is EJ).

Yes, or something even more compact which should be possible with today's miniaturisation of the components. Most important would be a real STOL capability (the whole system is no good if you can't get it in the air; VTOL may be too complex and expensive) and a fast deployability overv the whole country.

The limiting factor for a small 5thgen fighter/interceptor/air police is the weapons bay(s), not the internal avionics bulk. Even Sidewinders are 10ft long, AMRAAMs/Meteors are 12ft. Nobody is making "halfRAAMs" like the Cuda or whatever, ~6ft long missiles.

In the event of a shooting war between Taiwan and PRC, Taiwan is going to need aircraft designed around carrying AMRAAMs internally, because they'd be getting resupply from the US of whatever US missiles are in play.

In all seriousness, something the size of the F35 is the smallest "light fighter" most places are going to buy for a 5th gen aircraft.

 

[Trident]

Were they going to keep the F125 centrifugal compressor? I could see that seriously limiting the engine's growth potential.

 

[Basil]

Funny enough, the ideal fighter for the Taiwanese is a stealth Viggen.

@VTOLicious Yes, the FAR-21 is fairly reasonable for Taiwan's use case, assuming that it's got a decently short takeoff and landing. Only problem is what engine to power it with. F414 is likely to get blocked by the US. So, EJ2X0 or M88 (my preference between those two is EJ).


The limiting factor for a small 5thgen fighter/interceptor/air police is the weapons bay(s), not the internal avionics bulk. Even Sidewinders are 10ft long, AMRAAMs/Meteors are 12ft. Nobody is making "halfRAAMs" like the Cuda or whatever, ~6ft long missiles.

In the event of a shooting war between Taiwan and PRC, Taiwan is going to need aircraft designed around carrying AMRAAMs internally, because they'd be getting resupply from the US of whatever US missiles are in play.

In all seriousness, something the size of the F35 is the smallest "light fighter" most places are going to buy for a 5th gen aircraft.

If you want to go full stealth with an internal weapon bay, it will of course grow in size, weight and cost. If can you accept an external semi-integrated carriage of missiles, something like this could be very cost-effective and purchased in large numbers:

http://www.alr-aerospace.ch/publications/Bridel,%20G%20Janus%20Concept,%20SMi%20Conference,%20London%20September%202016.pdf

 

[Scott Kenny]

If you want to go full stealth with an internal weapon bay, it will of course grow in size, weight and cost. If can you accept an external semi-integrated carriage of missiles, something like this could be very cost-effective and purchased in large numbers:

http://www.alr-aerospace.ch/publications/Bridel,%20G%20Janus%20Concept,%20SMi%20Conference,%20London%20September%202016.pdf

I don't think that conformal carried missiles are compatible with stealth requirements. While conformal carriage doesn't really impact drag, I'm pretty sure it greatly increases RCS.