TAI HURJET

Comparative image of current Trainer/light fighter aircraft. Thx to Boz
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Notice that the best forward visibility for the instructor seems to be with the MesserchmHawk. Albeit debatable with that of the MessHurJet

(a play of words to distinguish those with a right opening canopy. (Bf 109 canopy was hinged that way)).
 
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at first glance the Hurjet looks similar to the T-7
but one thing quite different are the landing gear configuration
the Hurjet goes straight down while the other two have an angle
 
helmutkohl said:
at first glance the Hurjet looks similar to the T-7
but one thing quite different are the landing gear configuration
the Hurjet goes straight down while the other two have an angle
Click to expand...
I know that this is gonna drift it a bit off-topic but there are no definite articles in Turkish so when someone puts "the" and "Hürjet" together it honestly feels weird :d When there are multiple objects or subjects in a sentence, we just refer to what/who we mean by its name such as "Hurjet" in this case or "it" and the person opposite to you just understands it normally.

I had no problem with it when I learned English as there's only "the" but It was honestly super confusing with Dativ and Genetiv when I first started learning German :))
 
helmutkohl said:
at first glance the Hurjet looks similar to the T-7
but one thing quite different are the landing gear configuration
the Hurjet goes straight down while the other two have an angle
Click to expand...
Also, another noticeable thing is that the T-7 has canted twin vertical tails while the Hurjet has a single vertical tail. And my impression is that the lower lip of the T-7's engine air intake has a downward angle. Are both features designed with high AOA performance in mind?
 
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If T-7 has all the aerodynamic attributes of a mini SHornet, USAF requirements didn't includes high AoA manoeuvring. As such, T-7 publicized max AoA is 26 degree (something significantly higher than the competition), what also ranges b/w a Mirage 2000 and a Su-27.
Testing for high AoA takes time and comes at a cost. Unless a customer is ready to pay for opening the flight domain, it's probable that those characteristics would remain so.

But then, I would point you toward the famous program history of the F-20....
 
Maro.Kyo said:
TomcatViP said:
As such, T-7 publicized max AoA is 26 degree (something significantly higher than the competition)
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Where do you get the "significantly higher than the competition" part? That's not true at least when it comes to T-50.
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Yea for instance Hurjet has really good high AoA characteristics and performs well at slow speeds.
 
Really? M-346?! I would like very much to see some sources.

I posted an aermacchi sponsored article from AFM (or AI) back in the days when T-X competition was running. It is still on the web and it doesn't say such.
 
You can find earlier claims of up to 40 degrees for both siblings, but here's a fairly recent one (2016) that quotes the horse's mouth on the M-346:

Alenia Aermacchi test pilot Giacomo Ianelli said:
We’ve just cleared 30-degrees AoA [Angle-of-Attack] carefree handling, and look at our turn rates!
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www.ainonline.com

Italian Jet Trainer Finds New Cost-Saving Roles | AIN

Singapore was the first export customer for the M346, and has since been joined by Israel, Poland and the UAE.
www.ainonline.com www.ainonline.com

The Yak-130 limit is the Rosoboronexport catalogue figure, IIRC
 
Canardzz said:
Maro.Kyo said:
TomcatViP said:
As such, T-7 publicized max AoA is 26 degree (something significantly higher than the competition)
Click to expand...
Where do you get the "significantly higher than the competition" part? That's not true at least when it comes to T-50.
Click to expand...
Yea for instance Hurjet has really good high AoA characteristics and performs well at slow speeds.
Click to expand...

It hasn't flown.

The specs do not indicate a particularly impressive high AoA capability.
 
Jackonicko said:
Canardzz said:
Maro.Kyo said:
TomcatViP said:
As such, T-7 publicized max AoA is 26 degree (something significantly higher than the competition)
Click to expand...
Where do you get the "significantly higher than the competition" part? That's not true at least when it comes to T-50.
Click to expand...
Yea for instance Hurjet has really good high AoA characteristics and performs well at slow speeds.
Click to expand...

It hasn't flown.

The specs do not indicate a particularly impressive high AoA capability.
Click to expand...
"It has on the engineering simulator. Most of her handling characteristics are well known."

Her specs get updated all the time. Which specs are you referring to? The ones on Wikipedia?

TAI usually releases minimum specs. The real thing usually ends up performing a lot better.
 
Well … can we stay realistic! It hasn‘t flown yet and only since TAI managed to build a prototype, there is nothing confirmed nor assured, that „The real thing usually ends up performing a lot better.“

So please let us wait and wish it luck, but there have been project developed by much more experienced design teams, which ended up not as promised even more since a technical specification or performance is not the only important parameter for a project to become successful.
 
Deino said:
Well … can we stay realistic! It hasn‘t flown yet and only since TAI managed to build a prototype, there is nothing confirmed nor assured, that „The real thing usually ends up performing a lot better.“

So please let us wait and wish it luck, but there have been project developed by much more experienced design teams, which ended up not as promised even more since a technical specification or performance is not the only important parameter for a project to become successful.
Click to expand...
Also, I am concerned about the impact of the recent natural disaster in Türkiye on the supply chain and the program schedule. I'm very sorry for the calamity.
 
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Canardzz said:
Jackonicko said:
Canardzz said:
Maro.Kyo said:
TomcatViP said:
As such, T-7 publicized max AoA is 26 degree (something significantly higher than the competition)
Click to expand...
Where do you get the "significantly higher than the competition" part? That's not true at least when it comes to T-50.
Click to expand...
Yea for instance Hurjet has really good high AoA characteristics and performs well at slow speeds.
Click to expand...

It hasn't flown.

The specs do not indicate a particularly impressive high AoA capability.
Click to expand...
"It has on the engineering simulator. Most of her handling characteristics are well known."

Her specs get updated all the time. Which specs are you referring to? The ones on Wikipedia?

TAI usually releases minimum specs. The real thing usually ends up performing a lot better.
Click to expand...
1) It hasn't flown. Simulators are of limited value when it comes to predicting handling qualities and granular performance characteristics.
2) Not Wikipedia. TAI specs. Late last year I did some work on Hürjet for TAI and was in weekly contact with senior programme managers and engineers. I had pretty privileged access. You don't need that to know that an aircraft whose design and FCS is F-16 based and T-X optimised will not be a high Alpha hero!
3) I would judge that there are good reasons to expect Hürjet to under-perform slightly, rather than to over-perform
 
Jackonicko said:
Canardzz said:
Jackonicko said:
Canardzz said:
Maro.Kyo said:
TomcatViP said:
As such, T-7 publicized max AoA is 26 degree (something significantly higher than the competition)
Click to expand...
Where do you get the "significantly higher than the competition" part? That's not true at least when it comes to T-50.
Click to expand...
Yea for instance Hurjet has really good high AoA characteristics and performs well at slow speeds.
Click to expand...

It hasn't flown.

The specs do not indicate a particularly impressive high AoA capability.
Click to expand...
"It has on the engineering simulator. Most of her handling characteristics are well known."

Her specs get updated all the time. Which specs are you referring to? The ones on Wikipedia?

TAI usually releases minimum specs. The real thing usually ends up performing a lot better.
Click to expand...
1) It hasn't flown. Simulators are of limited value when it comes to predicting handling qualities and granular performance characteristics.
2) Not Wikipedia. TAI specs. Late last year I did some work on Hürjet for TAI and was in weekly contact with senior programme managers and engineers. I had pretty privileged access. You don't need that to know that an aircraft whose design and FCS is F-16 based and T-X optimised will not be a high Alpha hero!
3) I would judge that there are good reasons to expect Hürjet to under-perform slightly, rather than to over-perform
Click to expand...
So... I'm going to keep this short as I've got more pressing matters in hand. I'm pretty sure most of you know about the earthquake at this point.

Simulators are valuable. HÜRJET's 270 engineering simulator will try to mimic the real thing as much as possible. You're right in the sense that it won't be fully accurate. But TAI actively receives feedback from the pilots on the simulator. It's valuable to an extent.

I've experienced the sim a couple of times. It's situated next to the avionics lab and the iron bird of Hürjet. Of course, I'm not comparing aircraft here. It's evident that HÜRJET is based on the F-16. So to suggest this aircraft is a "high alpha hero" would be unwise. And with all due respect, that wasn't my suggestion. I should perhaps rephrase my original comment, as I may have made it sound like HÜRJET was some sort of an F/A-18 clone.

I suggest none of you to reply to this comment. I won't reply back. Thank you.
 
Turkish Aerospace Industries is present at the IDEX 2023 fair. T-129, Anka, Aksungur, Hürkuş and Hürjet platforms are being displayed at the static area. TAI did not bring the mock-up of the TF-X.


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Fpa_GOLXsAI4RtL.jpeg
 
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