Summary of Ansari X-prize entrants

FutureSpaceTourist

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For ease of reference and comparison a table of all the Ansari X-prize entrants is below. For teams that had multiple designs only the first is listed. (Subsequent designs are usually described in posts immediately following the initial design posts referenced below.)

Virtually all the designs also appear in either the spaceplanes or rockets space tourism lists.

TeamVehiclePicture (with link)
Acceleration EngineeringLucky Seven
Advent Launch ServicesAdvent
ARCAOrizont
American AstronauticsSpirit of Liberty
Armadillo AerospaceBlack Armadillo
Bristol SpaceplanesAscender
Canadian ArrowCanadian Arrow
The da Vinci ProjectWildfire
DiscraftThe Space Tourist
Flight ExplorationGreen Arrow
Fundamental Technology SystemsAurora
HARCLiberator
IL Aerospace TechnologiesNegev-5
Interorbital SystemsSolaris X
Kelly Space and TechnologyAstroliner
Lone Star Space AccessCosmos Mariner
Micro-SpaceCrusader X
Pablo de Leon & AssociatesVESA
PanAeroCondor-X
Pioneer RocketplaneRocketplane XP
Scaled CompositesProteus
Space TransportRubicon
Starchaser IndustriesThunderbird
SuborbitalCosmopolis XXI
TGV RocketsMichelle-V
Vanguard SpacecraftEagle
 
What a glorious future it will be when all of these are built!
 
For completeness here's some basic information on the Discraft Coporation:

[quote author=http://space.xprize.org/ansari-x-prize/discraft-corporation]
Propulsion: Blastwave-Pulsejets
Ship Name: The Space Tourist
Location: Portland, Oregan, USA
Launch: Horizontal on conventional runway
Landing: Horizontal, powered on conventional runway

Flight Sequence

Fixed, 7850-ft2-area, laminar-flow wing take-off at about 60 mph within about 150 ft, featuring climb with gradual air-breathing acceleration (according to a fixed program) at fixed angles, to exit the atmosphere at Mach 10 on an unpowered ballistic arc to reach 75-mi. altitude: return on down-leg of same unpowered arc to gradual power-on flare-out re-entry of the atmosphere in simple reverse sequence of the take-off velocity profile. Range above 100,000 ft is about 480 mi. which is covered in about 5 minutes.
[/quote]

Unusally there's no detailed team information on the X-prize website and the team never seemed to have a website. So doesn't sound like a serious contender and no evidence any real work was ever done. However, according to Astronautix the team lead:

[quote author=http://www.astronautix.com/craft/theurist.htm]
John Bloomer was an aerospace engineer with more than 60 patents on disc-platform aircraft.
[/quote]
 

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blackstar said:
What a glorious future it will be when all of these are built!

also, it is after the fact. Who cares if somebody had an idea and signed up for a contest. If they don't exist now, then they never were in the race in the first place
 
Yeah, well, that was kinda my point. There was a lot of Powerpoint engineering going on, with people making artwork when they had no chance of building a vehicle. One of the things that bothers me about the NewSpace community is how little they learn from experience. They all go running after the next neat idea, oblivious to the fact that they have been promised great things numerous times in the past.
 
blackstar said:
Yeah, well, that was kinda my point. There was a lot of Powerpoint engineering going on, with people making artwork when they had no chance of building a vehicle. One of the things that bothers me about the NewSpace community is how little they learn from experience. They all go running after the next neat idea, oblivious to the fact that they have been promised great things numerous times in the past.

We get it already. You make a lot of broad brush generalizations about "the Newspace Community". I for one think there's lots of powerpoint engineering there, as there is everywhere. There are few real results so it's mostly powerpoint engineering, true. I also consider myself part of the community.

Not everyone is taking some random guy's drawings seriously as the next big thing.

And yet sometimes some companies and individuals do new things and they actually succeed, despite many (including me) being skeptical of them.

Mostly it's about money, intelligence and general business sensibility (ie don't hire thousands if you don't have even any idea of a contract or profit mechanism yet). I don't think having affordable space access is going to require magic. Just multiple technological and organizational iterations and explored dead ends, done at an affordable scale where they can actually be done and setbacks don't depress everyone for a decade or a generation.
 
mz said:
We get it already. You make a lot of broad brush generalizations about "the Newspace Community". I for one think there's lots of powerpoint engineering there, as there is everywhere. There are few real results so it's mostly powerpoint engineering, true. I also consider myself part of the community.

Yeah, you get it. Please feel free to ignore all my carping in the future.

mz said:
Not everyone is taking some random guy's drawings seriously as the next big thing.

And while "Not everyone is taking some random guy's drawings seriously as the next big thing," silence is not the same as public analysis, or skepticism.

You'd be pretty hard-pressed to go back and find much skeptical analysis of any of this stuff at the time. Instead, most of the public commentary on NewSpace proposals and ideas consists of highly negative comments about NASA on the one hand, and on the other either total cheerleading boosterism about _some_ entrepreneurial ideas, or silence. It's a double standard where the community does not apply the same rules and analysis to both NASA and to the entrepreneurs. Instead, they are heavy critics of government, and heavily enthusiastic about industry. They're not objective, nor fair. And the end result is actually bad for the community in my view, because what happens is that project after project silently implodes without ever having been subjected to public scrutiny. I cannot understand, for instance, why anybody would pay for a subscription to the Lurio Report when all it consists of is positive cheerleading rather than the kind of objective assessment that occurs in subscription newsletters in other industries.

But that's because all of this is caught up in belief systems, in ideology, and politics. People "want to believe" in this stuff so they keep quiet even if they have reservations, because they don't want to be seen as questioning the message. And very few ever really learn from the process.

But maybe that's not necessary. Maybe just the "free hand of the market" squashing dozens of these companies over the past 15 years is sufficient, because the weak die and the strong survive and it matters not what those on the outside--skeptics or cheerleaders--thinks.
 
Clearly it's only results that matter in the end and there have been few of those so far. Certainly no New Space company has yet proven it has a sustainable business.

However, to me there is a difference now from previous space 'booms' in the 80s and 90s. Namely the level of investment across a relatively broad group of companies, hoping to serve a wider range of markets (not just Iridium or, er, nothing!). So I think the chances of success are better now than they've ever been, but I still vary quite widely in my estimations of the absolute probability of success!
 
FutureSpaceTourist said:
However, to me there is a difference now from previous space 'booms' in the 80s and 90s. Namely the level of investment across a relatively broad group of companies, hoping to serve a wider range of markets (not just Iridium or, er, nothing!). So I think the chances of success are better now than they've ever been, but I still vary quite widely in my estimations of the absolute probability of success!

Actually, it might be the opposite. There was a LOT of money invested in Iridium, Teledesic, Globalstar (I think), and Kistler, and most of it was lost. I think that Kistler lost close to $1 billion.

Compare those projects to current ones and there is probably a lot LESS investment today. Armadillo and Masten really have only pennies involved (a few million each). XCor does not have much more. There are only a few companies--SpaceX, Bigelow, and Virgin Galactic--that have invested hundreds of millions. So there might be a lot less money invested now than there was just a decade ago.

Of course, we can quibble about that. I imagine a lot of people would argue that Iridium, Teledesic and Globalstar were not NewSpace companies. So they don't belong. Kistler was clearly trying to be, and spent a lot of money and failed. But even taking this different tack, I'm not sure that you can successfully argue that there is significantly more money invested now than there was in the later 1990s.
 
blackstar said:
mz said:
We get it already. You make a lot of broad brush generalizations about "the Newspace Community". I for one think there's lots of powerpoint engineering there, as there is everywhere. There are few real results so it's mostly powerpoint engineering, true. I also consider myself part of the community.

Yeah, you get it. Please feel free to ignore all my carping in the future.

mz said:
Not everyone is taking some random guy's drawings seriously as the next big thing.

And while "Not everyone is taking some random guy's drawings seriously as the next big thing," silence is not the same as public analysis, or skepticism.

You'd be pretty hard-pressed to go back and find much skeptical analysis of any of this stuff at the time. Instead, most of the public commentary on NewSpace proposals and ideas consists of highly negative comments about NASA on the one hand, and on the other either total cheerleading boosterism about _some_ entrepreneurial ideas, or silence. It's a double standard where the community does not apply the same rules and analysis to both NASA and to the entrepreneurs. Instead, they are heavy critics of government, and heavily enthusiastic about industry. They're not objective, nor fair. And the end result is actually bad for the community in my view, because what happens is that project after project silently implodes without ever having been subjected to public scrutiny. I cannot understand, for instance, why anybody would pay for a subscription to the Lurio Report when all it consists of is positive cheerleading rather than the kind of objective assessment that occurs in subscription newsletters in other industries.

But that's because all of this is caught up in belief systems, in ideology, and politics. People "want to believe" in this stuff so they keep quiet even if they have reservations, because they don't want to be seen as questioning the message. And very few ever really learn from the process.

But maybe that's not necessary. Maybe just the "free hand of the market" squashing dozens of these companies over the past 15 years is sufficient, because the weak die and the strong survive and it matters not what those on the outside--skeptics or cheerleaders--thinks.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find critical analysis of anything aerospace in the press, or even somewhat technical analysis... How many relevant engineers or people with real business experience in the sector write much popular stuff?

Maybe the Augustine panel picked people's brains a little and produced some real discussion but of course it by its nature had to be somewhat superficial. It'd be nice to hear some analysis of how the Columbia board affected NASA's future in intended and unintended ways too...

I don't think there's a pretty way out of the mess as long as politicians design rockets. It might be that at the moment, the system is in a state where they must be done like that, but the future could be different.

I'm tired of the "get rid of government, free enterprise will give everyone ponies" schtick as I'm of the "they believe everyone will get ponies..." one. So I think you have some point but at the same time, you miss some very important nuances.


On "Newspace": well, the way I see it, Orbital was and is newspace in the broad sense that SpaceX is. Upon closer examination SpaceX is doing things mostly like oldspace did. The "kosher" newspace does small prototypes and constant improvement, explores many paths and aims for realistically low operations cost because of the "refuel and go again" philosophy which is basically the chief aim above everything else (there are other requirements like "fail operational" that follow from it).

Also, most of the Newspace companies do government contracts or work as project subcontractors. I think it's just the american culture to bash the government constantly. The sums are not huge at the moment though.
 
blackstar said:
FutureSpaceTourist said:
However, to me there is a difference now from previous space 'booms' in the 80s and 90s. Namely the level of investment across a relatively broad group of companies, hoping to serve a wider range of markets (not just Iridium or, er, nothing!). So I think the chances of success are better now than they've ever been, but I still vary quite widely in my estimations of the absolute probability of success!

Actually, it might be the opposite. There was a LOT of money invested in Iridium, Teledesic, Globalstar (I think), and Kistler, and most of it was lost. I think that Kistler lost close to $1 billion.

Compare those projects to current ones and there is probably a lot LESS investment today. Armadillo and Masten really have only pennies involved (a few million each). XCor does not have much more. There are only a few companies--SpaceX, Bigelow, and Virgin Galactic--that have invested hundreds of millions. So there might be a lot less money invested now than there was just a decade ago.

Of course, we can quibble about that. I imagine a lot of people would argue that Iridium, Teledesic and Globalstar were not NewSpace companies. So they don't belong. Kistler was clearly trying to be, and spent a lot of money and failed. But even taking this different tack, I'm not sure that you can successfully argue that there is significantly more money invested now than there was in the later 1990s.

Yeah, it's not really "New space" if you get a billion in loans, hire old defense contractors and try to build a straight operational design from scratch. Or let me say that it's unlikely to reach operational status or at least make progress in reducing cost, though many things depend on many things.

Monte Davis is probably the guy who can put the "New space" philosophy into words the best.

We don't know how to operate a reusable ISS taxi or LEO propellant tanker reliably and cheaply with a decent flight rate. Trying to build one from scratch in one try is probably gonna result, at best, in "it kinda works, but not really. We should have done something differently, but now that so much money and political capital has been spent, we're stuck with this for 30 years"...
 
mz said:
I think you'd be hard pressed to find critical analysis of anything aerospace in the press, or even somewhat technical analysis... How many relevant engineers or people with real business experience in the sector write much popular stuff?

That's inaccurate. When Bush unveiled the Vision for Space Exploration there was significant criticism, and also substantial critical analysis, at least of the political aspects, in the popular press (NY Times, Washington Post, etc.). There have been Government Accountability Office and Congressional Budget Office reports that have also addressed NASA's Constellation program to critical, and objective analysis. Even Aviation Week has addressed some of the technical aspects without being cheerleaders for NASA.

NewSpace gets ignored by the traditional actors like GAO, CBO and NRC because they are not government and are also too small to rise to scrutiny by the think tanks. It tends to get largely ignored by the media because the money amounts are too low. But even NewSpace activities that rise above the noise and get noticed by the media tend to be treated shallowly, with the media largely repeating the press releases. The non-mainstream media sources that address NewSpace are overwhelmingly supportive and not objective.
 
blackstar said:
mz said:
I think you'd be hard pressed to find critical analysis of anything aerospace in the press, or even somewhat technical analysis... How many relevant engineers or people with real business experience in the sector write much popular stuff?

That's inaccurate. When Bush unveiled the Vision for Space Exploration there was significant criticism, and also substantial critical analysis, at least of the political aspects, in the popular press (NY Times, Washington Post, etc.). There have been Government Accountability Office and Congressional Budget Office reports that have also addressed NASA's Constellation program to critical, and objective analysis. Even Aviation Week has addressed some of the technical aspects without being cheerleaders for NASA.

NewSpace gets ignored by the traditional actors like GAO, CBO and NRC because they are not government and are also too small to rise to scrutiny by the think tanks. It tends to get largely ignored by the media because the money amounts are too low. But even NewSpace activities that rise above the noise and get noticed by the media tend to be treated shallowly, with the media largely repeating the press releases. The non-mainstream media sources that address NewSpace are overwhelmingly supportive and not objective.

Maybe it's just my memory, but I recall most press stories just taking all NASA stuff at face value. Whatever time tables and constant changes in plans. The press does that with most things anyway, since they don't and can't really have technical expertise or enough time to do complex multi-faceted articles. Just report: "x claims y".

Florida Today perhaps was the exception at some time, as a traditional media with a web presence...

And then there's the blogs and nasaspaceflight.com. At the latter you had access to at least some technical spaceflight professionals, and some of them were quite critical of many fundamental things in Constellation.

It certainly felt (I don't have hard data to back this up so maybe I'm just wasting everybody's time here) that there was quite a big disconnect between what was being discussed "inside" and what was reported in the media. I have no way of knowing the reality of "inside" of course, just snapshots here and there. A single angry blogger or forum person with lots of claims rarely is a reliable source of information, though sometimes they are.

Considering the size of NASA and DoD programs, there's quite little investigative journalism there in my opinion.
There's even less of that tradition in Europe. Probably most people don't even know that Arianespace or ESA even exist and their tax dollars go there, or that if they go, it must be something that Government Top Men are surely taking care of in the optimal way. Different than "big government bad, cute garage thing good", but I don't know which one is worse.
:D :(

Do you remember the title or date of the Constellation-critical articles on AvWeek, NYT, WaPo etc?
Googled a little and indeed, they DO quote the aforementioned Charles Lurio here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/19/AR2005091901574_2.html
But space policy and engineering consultant Charles Lurio, an advocate of innovative private-sector approaches to space travel, criticized the new proposal for being too "massive" and "unaffordable now and unsustainable later."
The press did much better than I remembered!

The GAO report I also remember, though it seemed that they were quite resource constrained in making it.

One problem of US space policy is that everything has to be always decided so very quickly. ESAS and Griffin's era is a good example. In some important sections it was a very superficial analysis with large flaws, that should not serve as a basis for spending a hundred billion dollars and possibly more.
It's a constant cycle of ADHD boom-bust. Apollo was like that and it was unsustainable. Now the big programs take so long because there's no political possibility for a hypergigantic Apollo funding peak, and they rarely reach anything operational anymore. Except maybe international ones that can't be busted like ISS. It's quite an extraordinary achievement in many ways.

Some day there won't be programs, just vehicles and capabilities.

end rant
 
mz said:
Maybe it's just my memory, but I recall most press stories just taking all NASA stuff at face value. Whatever time tables and constant changes in plans. The press does that with most things anyway, since they don't and can't really have technical expertise or enough time to do complex multi-faceted articles. Just report: "x claims y".

You answered your own question with the Washington Post article. But there was substantial criticism when Bush unveiled the Vision. I'll point to this commentary which mentioned the criticism, which started even BEFORE Bush made the announcement:

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/119/1

"We saw the modern media version of this game recently when rumors emerged that President Bush was about to unveil a new space policy that called for a return to the Moon and an eventual human mission to Mars. Media reports quickly declared that this plan would cost a trillion dollars or even more. That number was widely repeated within the modern media echo chamber, often by supposedly reputable sources. It may have already done substantial damage to the Bush space policy, creating public opposition to what is perceived as a massively expensive program and scaring away any possible supporters."

The article refers to a number of mass media articles about the Vision that were highly critical. I actually think that they were unfairly critical, but NASA didn't get it easy, if only because their credibility had been badly damaged after Columbia and the hard-hitting Columbia Accident Investigation Board report.

When Griffin unveiled ESAS, there was also substantial mass media criticism of the plan. It's not hard to find examples in major newspapers.

And I mentioned Congressional Budget Office and Government Accountability Office reports critical of Constellation. Go to their respective websites and do a simple search and you will find them.

In contrast, a decade ago I was appalled by the superficial treatment that MirCorp received from the media. Most media reports simply repeated MirCorp's press releases, and usually failed to note that the previous press release had said something different. There was a fawning Wall Street Journal article on MirCorp, which cited a KPMG assessment that Mir was worth something like $2 billion. Nobody did an overall assessment piece about the company's stated business strategy, and how unrealistic it was. (Well, there was this one guy...)
 
blackstar said:
Of course, we can quibble about that. I imagine a lot of people would argue that Iridium, Teledesic and Globalstar were not NewSpace companies. So they don't belong. Kistler was clearly trying to be, and spent a lot of money and failed. But even taking this different tack, I'm not sure that you can successfully argue that there is significantly more money invested now than there was in the later 1990s.

You're right, I'd completely forgotten about the amount invested in Kistler! (and yes I'd certainly quibble about the others being NewSpace :)) As for Kistler, it all depends on the definition we use (at least it doesn't match mz's definition ...)
 
FutureSpaceTourist said:
You're right, I'd completely forgotten about the amount invested in Kistler! (and yes I'd certainly quibble about the others being NewSpace :)) As for Kistler, it all depends on the definition we use (at least it doesn't match mz's definition ...)

They spent nearly $1 billion on a reusable rocket. I think they qualify as NewSpace, but I imagine that NewSpace advocates prefer to label the failures as not NewSpace.

Leonard David is working on a history of Kistler, with Kistler's support.
 
blackstar said:
Leonard David is working on a history of Kistler, with Kistler's support.

Thanks for the heads-up, something to look out for in the future. I expect it'll be interesting reading ...
 
FutureSpaceTourist said:
blackstar said:
Leonard David is working on a history of Kistler, with Kistler's support.

Thanks for the heads-up, something to look out for in the future. I expect it'll be interesting reading ...

I don't know when he plans to have it published. Last I talked to him he had obtained access to a lot of material. He is interviewed here, but I don't know if he discusses the book:

http://www.thespaceshow.com/detail.asp?q=1454
 
blackstar said:
They spent nearly $1 billion on a reusable rocket. I think they qualify as NewSpace, but I imagine that NewSpace advocates prefer to label the failures as not NewSpace.
[\quote]

Certainly there's some of that! :D
But it also shows some lack of understanding of what the newspace philosophy is. Though strictly, SpaceX isn't really newspace then, and Scaled/Virgin after SS1 isn't either. Maybe I'm new to the game and we are talking about different things. Post-program space perhaps?

Leonard David is working on a history of Kistler, with Kistler's support.

That's good to hear. Too little inside stuff is written on failures.
 
mz said:
That's good to hear. Too little inside stuff is written on failures.

Rotary has been done, although I have not read the book.

There is both a book and a documentary about MirCorp. I have not looked at either (although I'm quoted in one of them). The problem is that they are heavily influenced by the people who were involved, and therefore they are biased.

What would be useful is a book where the author went around and talked to a bunch of people and asked them a simple question: "what went wrong?" He probably wouldn't get a lot of honest answers, but there might be some good lessons for future entrepreneurs.
 
I read the Rotary book a few years ago and enjoyed it (can't remember much of it now ...). I do remember that one of the ex-Rotary people was publicly not at all happy with it, saying that as the author had no technical background of any sort there were various misunderstandings, mis-representations etc etc. I do think the author having a different perspective is useful, but it can still end-up with just as distorted a view as a strong advocate would write.

For the latter, there's G. Harry Stine's book on the DC-X! Unusually there's effectively a second book on the DC-X. I haven't read it yet but it'll be interesting to compare the two.

I agree a lessons learned book would be great. I suspect too many of us, in whatever field we work, spend a lot of time repeating mistakes someone else has already made :(
 
I have not actually read the ROTON book but I recall most reviewers were saying it was less a "technical" book than one dealing with the personal and financial aspects of ROTON. I recall Gary Hudson posting one time that they sat down with the author, explained in detail certain important aspects of the program only to have her "gloss-over" the tech stuff and focus on people dynamics that they felt weren't even present.

Randy
 
FutureSpaceTourist said:
For the latter, there's G. Harry Stine's book on the DC-X! Unusually there's effectively a second book on the DC-X. I haven't read it yet but it'll be interesting to compare the two.

There's a story behind that second book. The author was originally commissioned (by NASA) to write a history of the X-33 program as it happened, and got great access to that program. It's unusual to have a historian allowed to sit in the room when decisions are being made. However, by his own admission he alienated some key people in the program and found himself shut out. (He shot himself in the foot.) He was later able to turn some of what he had researched into the DC-X book.
 
RanulfC said:
I have not actually read the ROTON book but I recall most reviewers were saying it was less a "technical" book than one dealing with the personal and financial aspects of ROTON. I recall Gary Hudson posting one time that they sat down with the author, explained in detail certain important aspects of the program only to have her "gloss-over" the tech stuff and focus on people dynamics that they felt weren't even present.

I haven't read it either, but I'm not sure that it not being a technical book is automatically a flaw. It is not good if the author doesn't understand the technology and gets it wrong. But a key aspect about a lot of these programs is business, marketing, and management. I think that one of the things that brings a lot of these companies down is that the people who start them think they have a technically superior idea that will sell itself. They assume that their great ideas will result in people flocking to buy their product.

I've seen a number of examples where the companies come up with really clever ideas and approaches, and yet have no idea what the actual market looks like. For example, TGV was supposedly focused on the idea of using what is essentially a ballistic missile to conduct reconnaissance, ignoring what the military customers actually want (persistent surveillance). And I remain unconvinced that several of the companies building small reusable suborbital rockets have any idea what the actual market is for their services, or realize where suborbital researchers obtain their funding (for example, they think that flying 10 times to 100 km is essentially akin to flying one time to 1000 km--which is like assuming that you can get nine women to produce a baby in one month).

So with Roton, there are probably a lot of important aspects about who was involved, who they got to fund them, and what their business case was.
 
blackstar said:
mz said:
That's good to hear. Too little inside stuff is written on failures.

Rotary has been done, although I have not read the book.

There is both a book and a documentary about MirCorp. I have not looked at either (although I'm quoted in one of them). The problem is that they are heavily influenced by the people who were involved, and therefore they are biased.

Oh, didn't know about these books!

What would be useful is a book where the author went around and talked to a bunch of people and asked them a simple question: "what went wrong?" He probably wouldn't get a lot of honest answers, but there might be some good lessons for future entrepreneurs.

It's darn near impossible with successes too? In one former company I worked at, a boss told that his first job when he had come in many years earlier had been to make a short history of a then recently launched successful product. He went around asking people and everybody thought very differently about what the problems had been and why different solutions were chosen.

Some, even most systems just are quite complex and usually there is no single person who has enough knowledge of all the reasons why it is like it is.
 

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