Patriot SAM replacement

jsport said:
breakingdefense.com

Neutral nations Austria and Switzerland agree to join European Sky Shield Initiative - Breaking Defense

Switzerland made clear that it will “examine” areas where co-operation can be strengthened, with a plan to specifically address information exchange and training for the US-made Patriot air defense system, of which it ordered five units in June 2021.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
Click to expand...
There were quite a few criticism about ESSI for the lack of actual goal or framework given how grandiose the scheme was supposed to be, but nevertheless it seems like it's going somewhere, at least. Hopefully they can get Italy and France on board as well but that might be too hard with SAMP/T.
 
Breaking Defense News report on this week’s Space and Missile Defense Symposium in Huntsville, Ala., Army Col. Chris Hill, project manager of the Integrated Fires Mission Command Project Office briefing

Anticipates fielding its first C2, Integrated Battle Command System (IBCS) in 2024. The Army then plans to begin rolling out IBCS to other Patriot units at a rate of two battalions per year. Then in the 2027 timeframe is when LTMADS [radar] should come on board.

Also mentioned was the Army passive Long Range Persistent Surveillance (ALPS), Lockheed Martin’s Remote Interceptor Guidance-360 (RIG–360) for Patriot PAC-3 integrated with IBCS, Sentinel A3 and A4 radars and the Dynetics' delayed IFPC Inc 2 prototypes.

breakingdefense.com

Tying it together: Army eyes evolving test plan new capabilities bound for Guam - Breaking Defense

The service anticipates fielding its first Integrated Battle Command System (IBCS) in 2024, a C2 system that will be a centerpiece for the air defense effort.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
 
Does the mpq65A array, compared to regular mpq65, have any noticeable external differences? I've tried looking for photos of the A variant but I am not sure there are any online.
 
jsport said:
A visualization of OTH which could be expanded to CEC based detection for ground TCT/TELs supporting 'pre-launch/boost' tgting.
Click to expand...
breakingdefense.com

Beyond 'bullet on bullet': NORTHCOM's new defense plan looks to kill missiles before they launch - Breaking Defense

"The best missile strategy is to destroy the missiles prior to launch. A focus on missile defeat could enable distributed non-kinetic systems with larger magazines and the ability to engage missiles before they can deploy complex decoys, countermeasures, maneuvers or multiple reentry vehicles,"...
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com

will pre-boost be returning to the argument..controversial
 
jsport said:
breakingdefense.com

Beyond 'bullet on bullet': NORTHCOM's new defense plan looks to kill missiles before they launch - Breaking Defense

"The best missile strategy is to destroy the missiles prior to launch. A focus on missile defeat could enable distributed non-kinetic systems with larger magazines and the ability to engage missiles before they can deploy complex decoys, countermeasures, maneuvers or multiple reentry vehicles,"...
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com

will pre-boost be returning to the argument..controversial
Click to expand...
Absolutely essential. If it's possible they should do it. You can be damn sure China and Russia will if they can.

The commands’ focus “going forward relies less on kinetic engagement, instead emphasizing non-kinetic means … such as directed energy, electronic attack, high power microwaves, to complement our direct kinetic active defenses.”
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Cordy said:
Breaking Defense News report on this week’s Space and Missile Defense Symposium in Huntsville, Ala., Army Col. Chris Hill, project manager of the Integrated Fires Mission Command Project Office briefing

Anticipates fielding its first C2, Integrated Battle Command System (IBCS) in 2024. The Army then plans to begin rolling out IBCS to other Patriot units at a rate of two battalions per year. Then in the 2027 timeframe is when LTMADS [radar] should come on board.

Also mentioned was the Army passive Long Range Persistent Surveillance (ALPS), Lockheed Martin’s Remote Interceptor Guidance-360 (RIG–360) for Patriot PAC-3 integrated with IBCS, Sentinel A3 and A4 radars and the Dynetics' delayed IFPC Inc 2 prototypes.

breakingdefense.com

Tying it together: Army eyes evolving test plan new capabilities bound for Guam - Breaking Defense

The service anticipates fielding its first Integrated Battle Command System (IBCS) in 2024, a C2 system that will be a centerpiece for the air defense effort.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
Click to expand...
Brig. Gen. Frank Lozano reporting on development testing of the LTAMDS in a new two phased/wave approach :-

“Last year, when I first came on board, through some system engineering reviews, we realized that trying to do all 360 degrees of tracking was too much to take on at once // the first year of testing will focus on the main array and the second year, in 2024, will be dedicated to full-sector capability testing, incorporating the back two arrays" // Once the second phase of developmental testing is complete, the Army will conduct an operational assessment in the first quarter of FY25 that will lead to an Engineering and Manufacturing Development decision in FY25, a preliminary step toward eventual serial production."

BUT
"In order to meet congressional requirements, the Army is providing the first four LTAMDS prototypes to the formation designated as the “first unit equipped” with primary sector capability by December 2023, Lozano said. That step will provide “residual combat capability” that already “exceeds legacy radar capability,”he said.
The Army is also required to field three additional LTAMDS for the defense of Guam. The service plans to procure five total systems in FY24 to cover the Guam requirement; the other two will be test assets, Doug Bush, the Army’s acquisition chief said earlier this year."

www.defensenews.com

US Army splits testing phase of future missile defense radar

The service plans to divide the testing program for the sensor's 360-degree tracking capability into two stages to keep things manageable.
www.defensenews.com www.defensenews.com
 
Raytheon was contracted in 2019 to build an initial six radars, all of which have been produced and are now undergoing tests. The declaration of an OC level by the end of 2023 will culminate with ongoing training and soldier-conducted operational assessments.

Achieving an Operational Capability does not mean that work on the radar ceases. The testing regime continues with demanding environmental and mobility qualifications along with further integration and ‘system of systems’ evaluations. Upon completion, the radar will achieve Operational Capability in support of an Urgent Material Release.

LTAMDS will replace the existing AN/MPQ-53/65 radars used by the Army’s Patriot SAM systems. The new radar works with existing PAC-2 GEM-T and PAC-3 MSE interceptors while having the growth potential to work with new effectors as they become available.

The international community is also taking notice. Twelve countries have shown significant interest in LTAMDS. Poland has become the first international customer for the radar, approving a letter of acceptance on 5 September to expand its Wisla air defence programme with 12 LTAMDS systems.
Click to expand...

Nothing Goes Unseen: Raytheon’s LTAMDS Radar Enhances Situational Awareness Amidst Increasing Aerial Threats (Studio) | Shephard

Never before have air defenders contended with such complex, rapid and varied threats in the air environment. Raytheon’s LTAMDS radar is the system th
www.shephardmedia.com
 
bobbymike said:
www.c4isrnet.com

Patriot replacement radar defeats cruise missile in Raytheon test

The Army's Lower Tier Air and Missile Defense Sensor enabled the intercept of a cruise missile target in a developmental test ahead of first unit fielding.
www.c4isrnet.com www.c4isrnet.com
Click to expand...

A very critical test given the that winter is coming in Ukraine and we all know the Russians have been hoarding cruise-missiles for winter attack on critical Ukrainian infrastructure such as power stations and sub-stations.
 
Cordy said:
Mobility think the opposite TPY-4 is more mobile than the LTAMDS, brochure says it can be transported by a C-130 whereas as far as know no similar claim is made for the LTAMDS and from pic it looks too large to fit inside a C-130?

Problems with the LTAMDS, the only report have seen by Jen Judson Mar 17 Defense News


As far as know Ghost Eye/LTAMDS is not a multiband radar, purely S-band using the same 2 foot cubic S-band RMA building blocks as used in the various SPY-6 radars.
Click to expand...
LTAMDS is an C-Band Radar, SPY-6 is S-band. However, AMDR (SPY-6) is "Dual-band". The first 12 radar sets will be AMDR-S band only, and continue to use SPQ-9B for X-band use. Set 13 and beyond will feature AMDR-S and X-band in one...
 
TeourdBeourglaer said:
LTAMDS is an C-Band Radar, SPY-6 is S-band. However, AMDR (SPY-6) is "Dual-band". The first 12 radar sets will be AMDR-S band only, and continue to use SPQ-9B for X-band use. Set 13 and beyond will feature AMDR-S and X-band in one...
Click to expand...
Thanks for your correction and as you say the LTAMDS/Ghost Eye is C- band not S-band.

The AMDR SPY-6 is only S-band, the contract for the AMDR X-band radar was never placed, there is no combined S and X-band AMDR SPY-6 radar, but the Navy talking of the Future X-Band Radar program, FXR, to replace the SPQ-9B and the last news seen was Jan 2022 NAVSEA RFI requesting seeking industry inputs and interest for future development and production phases for FXR, but doubt it will replace SPQ-9B on set 13 as Navy has yet to request competitive bids from industry for the FXR.


FXR Requirements specified in RFI
  1. FXR is required to meet mission performance and size, weight, and power – cooling (SWAP-C) requirements of the following ship classes:
    1. DDG-51 FLT III ships with AEGIS Baseline 10 (BL 10) combat system.
    2. DDG-51 FLT II and DDG-51 FLT IIA ships with AEGIS Baseline 9 (BL 9) combat system
    3. Ford class carriers with SSDS (BL 12) combat system
    4. Nimitz class carriers with SSDS (BL 12) combat system
    5. Ticonderoga class cruisers with AEGIS Baseline 9 (BL 9) combat system
    6. Landing Platform/Dock (LPD 29+) hulls with SSDS (BL 12) combat system
  2. To the greatest extent possible, a common system architecture will be applied to FXR solutions across all the platforms identified in item 1 above.
  3. FXR will provide horizon search and track, surface search and track, periscope detection and discrimination, and missile communications in a wide diversity of maritime environments and conditions.

SAM.gov

sam.gov sam.gov
 
Dahlgren has been testing a prototype for FXR since last year, a proof-of-concept prototype, which uses what they describe as an "off the shelf antenna designed for military aircraft" modified into an X-band radar prototype. L3 Harris is involved, so I'm wondering if they're using a panel derived from the new Compass Call. It would certainly be light in weight.

Q1 2025 is the most recent target for the solicitation phase, and award in FY2026. If there's a functioning Congress to approve the money by then.
 
Defence Updates has put out a video about how the Patriot has performed in Ukraine so far:


The Ukrainian Air Force has officially stated that several Russian aircraft, downed in May inside Russian territory were destroyed by the American-made Patriot air defense system. The events that transpired on May 13 involved significant losses for Russian Aerospace forces.All 5 aircraft crashed in Bryansk Oblast, which is deep within Russian territory and located across from Ukraine's Chernihiv Oblast in the northeast. On that day, three Russian Mi-8 helicopters, one Su-34 fighter bomber, and one Su-35S fighter were reportedly lost, with no survivors. Also, there were reports that the Patriot was used to down several Kinzhal (Dagger) hypersonic & Iskander missiles a few days later.
Click to expand...
Ukrainian Air Force spokesman Col. Yuri Ihnat at that time hinted at the use of Patriot but he has now confirmed this.
Click to expand...
In this video, Defense Updates analyzes how the American Patriot downed Russia’s most advanced aerial assets in Ukraine?
Click to expand...
 
Moose said:
Dahlgren has been testing a prototype for FXR since last year, a proof-of-concept prototype, which uses what they describe as an "off the shelf antenna designed for military aircraft" modified into an X-band radar prototype. L3 Harris is involved, so I'm wondering if they're using a panel derived from the new Compass Call. It would certainly be light in weight.
Click to expand...
Wasn't it the SAAB fighter radar they they were testing? Actually, I think it was just the antenna with the other HW sourced from elsewhere or internally developed. Lockheed also has its eye on other applications for the Sentinel A4 product line.
 
bring_it_on said:
Wasn't it the SAAB fighter radar they they were testing? Actually, I think it was just the antenna with the other HW sourced from elsewhere or internally developed. Lockheed also has its eye on other applications for the Sentinel A4 product line.
Click to expand...
I may have missed an update, but I thought SAAB's Navy radar work concerns LCS not FXR. Sentinel isn't an aircraft radar, so I don't believe it or a derivative would be what the article is referring to.
 
Moose said:
I may have missed an update, but I thought SAAB's Navy radar work concerns LCS not FXR. Sentinel isn't an aircraft radar, so I don't believe it or a derivative would be what the article is referring to.
Click to expand...
Yes SAAB supports the LCS program. But in this case, I seem to recall that the Navy specifically chose the front end (antenna) of the new SAAB AESA radar to further its FXR R&D and demonstrate something. Might have to do a bit of digging. Sentinel A4 likewise is a program that LM hopes to be used for broader applications than the current one.

 
bring_it_on said:
Yes SAAB supports the LCS program. But in this case, I seem to recall that the Navy specifically chose the front end (antenna) of the new SAAB AESA radar to further its FXR R&D and demonstrate something. Might have to do a bit of digging. Sentinel A4 likewise is a program that LM hopes to be used for broader applications than the current one.

Click to expand...

Saab did develop a prototype Gripen AESA GaN X-band radar array with1,000 T/R modules, said to give the radar a detection range of 270 km to 350 km, depending on its size, against a SU35 and was able to use the Meteor at its maximum range (250 km?). This essentially used the same GaN antenna which was developed in the 2018 contract from NAWCAD, Lakehurst, with the array being intended for the Office of Naval Research and Office of the Secretary of Defense Foreign Comparative Testing.
 

Attachments

  • Saab_AESA_GaN_Gripen_prototype_radar_2020.jpeg
    Saab_AESA_GaN_Gripen_prototype_radar_2020.jpeg
    293.1 KB · Views: 17
Germany plans to buy pac-3 MSE in the 3 digit region. This will be a big upgrade over the only 80 CRI and 50 MSE ordered until. I guess we can expect to see +200 missiles ordered tought maybe some for ukraine / sending more of the less than 130 PAC-3 in stock.
Cordy said:
Was surprised as write up says its the PAC-2 GEM-T not the PAC-3
www.defense-aerospace.com

European Nations in Joint €5.1 Billion Purchase of 1,000 Patriot GEM-T Missiles

LUXEMBOURG ---- The NATO Support and Procurement Agency (NSPA) will support a coalition of nations, including Germany, the Netherlands, Romania and...
www.defense-aerospace.com www.defense-aerospace.com
Click to expand...
https://www.hartpunkt.de/bmvg-will-neue-pac-3-lenkflugkoerper-fuer-patriot-beschaffen/
 
Cordy said:
Was surprised as write up says its the PAC-2 GEM-T not the PAC-3
www.defense-aerospace.com

European Nations in Joint €5.1 Billion Purchase of 1,000 Patriot GEM-T Missiles

LUXEMBOURG ---- The NATO Support and Procurement Agency (NSPA) will support a coalition of nations, including Germany, the Netherlands, Romania and...
www.defense-aerospace.com www.defense-aerospace.com
Click to expand...
PAC3 is highly specialized in ABM work, GEMT is better for cruise missiles or aircraft.



NMaude said:
Wouldn't the purchase of 1,000 GEM-T interceptors dramatically lower the unit-price?
Click to expand...
One would think so.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom