Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor

The presumption might be that ABMS isn't going to see prime time while the F-22 is still a front line asset. Or it may be that integrating the F-22s legacy electronics was a heavy lift that was going to slow the program down and will be something done at a later time.
 
View: https://youtu.be/Z_cx-_DeY7E


Test pilot Steve Rainey’s talk on the F-22, Stratolaunch, and Talon. Much of the information on the F-22 isn’t really new, but still interesting to see nonetheless. The parts about Stratolaunch and Talon are quite interesting.

Rainey briefly mentioned this, but Lockheed’s F-22 program office was moved from Burbank, California during Dem/Val to Marietta, Georgia for EMD and production. Some have attributed to Georgia senator Sam Nunn, the ranking member of SASC at the time, although I think program manager Sherm Mullin was a proponent of that as well on cost grounds. That said, I do wonder if the move really saved anything vice the program staying in Burbank or moving to nearby Palmdale instead. I do feel like the move contributed to some of the delays and program issues during EMD, as it seems like many of the people who worked on Dem/Val didn’t move with the program from Burbank to Marietta, and no doubt some of the institutional and program knowledge didn’t transfer smoothly. Boeing suffered the same issue when they moved their ASC2 (AWACS, AEW&C) portfolio from Seattle to Oklahoma City. In the end, I do wonder if the F-22 would have come in cheaper and sooner if it had stayed in California. In any case, Lockheed’s Palmdale facility still does development work for the F-22, and its proximity to EAFB certainly helps.
 
The failed balloon interception over Montana, unexpectedly give us the confirmation that F-22 ceiling is at least 65kft!

the balloon was traveling above 65,000 feet [...]
Officials at U.S. Northern Command on Thursday contested some of the information from military sources about the Beartooth mission. Officials insisted the F-22 service ceiling “was not a limitation to the mission.” They said they were also reluctant to get too close to the balloon, “which contained unknown and possibly explosive gas. “ U.S. aircraft did not fire any munitions – guns or missiles – over Montana on Feb. 1.,” the command said in a statement.
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billingsgazette.com

Pentagon intended to shoot down Chinese balloon over Montana's Beartooth Mountains

Several Montana and U.S. military officials told the Billings Gazette the balloon was traveling above 65,000 feet, which is too high for the jets to reach.
billingsgazette.com billingsgazette.com

Please, all, this is not a balloon news. Just an information glanned on the Raptor.
 
FWIW - the Western Museum of Flight has a docent that spoke about the advanced fighter crew protection system that Northrop developed for the YF-23 on their YouTube channel. He speaks about a specific requirement of being able to sustain the pilot from 70kft down to 55kft. I believe Lockheed had a similar suit in development but it was paired down. Longstory short I believe that the ATF entries are both able operate comfortably higher than the limit of 60Kft that the Air Force imposes on Raptor crews now.
 
TomcatViP said:
The failed balloon interception over Montana, unexpectedly give us the confirmation that F-22 ceiling is at least 65kft!

the balloon was traveling above 65,000 feet [...]
Officials at U.S. Northern Command on Thursday contested some of the information from military sources about the Beartooth mission. Officials insisted the F-22 service ceiling “was not a limitation to the mission.” They said they were also reluctant to get too close to the balloon, “which contained unknown and possibly explosive gas. “ U.S. aircraft did not fire any munitions – guns or missiles – over Montana on Feb. 1.,” the command said in a statement.
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billingsgazette.com

Pentagon intended to shoot down Chinese balloon over Montana's Beartooth Mountains

Several Montana and U.S. military officials told the Billings Gazette the balloon was traveling above 65,000 feet, which is too high for the jets to reach.
billingsgazette.com billingsgazette.com

Please, all, this is not a balloon news. Just an information glanned on the Raptor.
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Paywall. Surely an AMRAAM could reach that high though? The old Phoenix definitely could.

As regards the story, the only sources I can find on a Google search are crappy sources I've never heard of with paywalls.
 
Forest Green said:
Paywall. Surely an AMRAAM could reach that high though? The old Phoenix definitely could.
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The article states that the intent was to perforate the balloon envelope with cannon fire to force it to descend slowly so the payload could be recovered.

That means they'd have to actually stabilize enough for a guns pass at 65k feet, which is different from just flinging a missile downrange.

Forest Green said:
As regards the story, the only sources I can find on a Google search are crappy sources I've never heard of with paywalls.
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The Billings Gazette is a real newspaper with a decent reputation.
 
TomS said:
Forest Green said:
Paywall. Surely an AMRAAM could reach that high though? The old Phoenix definitely could.
Click to expand...

The article states that the intent was to perforate the balloon envelope with cannon fire to force it to descend slowly so the payload could be recovered.

That means they'd have to actually stabilize enough for a guns pass at 65k feet, which is different from just flinging a missile downrange.

Forest Green said:
As regards the story, the only sources I can find on a Google search are crappy sources I've never heard of with paywalls.
Click to expand...

The Billings Gazette is a real newspaper with a decent reputation.
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But has it simply copied the story from lesser sources? How come no major sources?
 
I read in the Merge newsletter as I recall that the F-22 has a operational limit on the gun of 50kft. Not sure what the issue exactly is however.
 
www.acc.af.mil

F-22 Raptor FTU begins move to JBLE

Gen. Mark Kelly, commander, Air Combat Command, signed a memorandum, Jan. 20, directing the stand-up of the F-22 Raptor Formal Training Unit at Joint Base Langley-Eustis, Virginia.
www.acc.af.mil

Looks like the training squadron is finally moving to Langley. The 71st FS is replacing the 43rd FS as the FTU. I believe some news reports earlier said that training would be conducted using Block 30/35 F-22s, but the article here states that the jets from Elgin, which are Block 20 jets, are transferring over to Langley for the 71st FS. Hopefully means that some of the issues associated with the 325th FW will be gone.

In other news, F-22s are now deployed to Tinian to test the Agile Combat Employment concept. Although it’s in fairly close proximity to Guam, Tinian itself is fairly austere, so it’s interesting to see the Air Force embracing more distributed airfield operations.

www.airandspaceforces.com

Photos: F-22s Deploy to Tinian for First Time as Part of ACE Exercise | Air & Space Forces Magazine

For the first time, F-22s deployed to the U.S. territory of Tinian, a small island around 100 miles north of Guam, as part of an ACE exercise.
www.airandspaceforces.com www.airandspaceforces.com
 
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rooster said:
jsport said:
www.defenseone.com

F-22s Marked for Retirement Will Never Be Combat Worthy, General Says

The Air Force hopes Congress will let them get rid of 32 Block 20 F-22s in the 2024 budget.
www.defenseone.com www.defenseone.com
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Do they have f22 stealth? Do they have a radar? Can they fire missiles? Yeah they're useless.
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If they don't fit into your battlefield management networks - it becomes surprisingly close to the truth. At least, in the US context.
Esp. when you can keep them only at the expense of something that does fit.
 
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It goes doubly so if retireing the worse off means that the F22 goes from like 40 percent readiness to say the 80s.

Similarly to what happened with the B1s in the late 90s. Most of the fleet had low readiness rate, they retire the oldest of the lot and the rest got their readiness rate increase multiple times that lasted for nearly a decade of meduim level ops.

The F22 will be no different I expect cause out side of the computers, all the big wear parts are the same.
 
Block 20 retirement seems like a combination of funding and manpower, since the USAF doesn't want to divert resources away from NGAD, which is quite ambitious both in terms of technology and fielding timeline. This commitment to NGAD is reflected by the funding, which is quite robust at this point, with RDT&E rivaling the numbers for the ATF. That being said, if the force structure planning is only for 200 NGAD manned fighters as was stated from recent "planning assumptions", I would feel uneasy about retiring the F-22s, as that's a lot of combat mass that would be prematurely retired.

In other news, F-22s are testing the new helmet that will be replacing the current HGU-55.

www.acc.af.mil

Raptor pilots test AF's next-gen helmet

Developmental flight tests are underway for the Air Force’s new Next Generation Fixed Wing Helmet. The NGFWH program goal is to provide pilots a more comfortable, stable, and balanced platform to
www.acc.af.mil
 
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It seems they believe they will at some point. Remains to be seen though.
 
jsport said:
breakingdefense.com

Congress protects F-22s from retirement, oks sending some A-10s to the boneyard - Breaking Defense

For the first time ever, Congress gave the green light for the Air Force to divest part of its A-10 Warthog fleet, but it's still yet to be seen whether this is a one-time event.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
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This was last year for the FY23 budget. Discussions about the FY24 budget are ongoing, and frankly, keeping Block 20 F-22s without upgrading is rather wasteful. In the end it’s a matter of money and manpower, so we’ll see if Congress will appropriate those funds, and if Lockheed Martin has enough engineering staff.
 
www.dvidshub.net

Five ANG Wings Train at Operation Hoodoo Sea

Five Air National Guard wings are conducting agile combat training as part of an exercise called Operation Hoodoo Sea in the coastal southeast of the United States. Airmen from multiple job specialties will be tasked to operate as multi-capable Airmen, supporting the F-22, KC-135, C-17 and...
www.dvidshub.net www.dvidshub.net

A rather minor development, but it could have implications for the aircraft's operating concepts, with a greater focus on more austere basing.
 
This just struck me after reading about the sad fate of the Titan submarine, and the collapse of its hull owning to the failure characteristics of carbon fiber composites, where the material slowly but gradually gets weaker as the individual fibers snap, and then fails catastrophically all at once.

Do you think the unexpectedly quick retirement of the F-22 has something to do the similar issue of unanticipatedly rapid aging of its composite parts?
 
Elysium said:
This just struck me after reading about the sad fate of the Titan submarine, and the collapse of its hull owning to the failure characteristics of carbon fiber composites, where the material slowly but gradually gets weaker as the individual fibers snap, and then fails catastrophically all at once.

Do you think the unexpectedly quick retirement of the F-22 has something to do the similar issue of unanticipatedly rapid aging of its composite parts?
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Unlike all the many other aircraft with composite parts? Seems unlikely.
 
The “unexpectedly quick” retirement is due to maintenance and component obsolescence issues, though there is no hard date for retirement and all indications are that they will operate into the 2030s.
 

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