Korea to Build Light Aircraft Carrier

[sferrin]

Korea will build a 30,000-ton light aircraft carrier capable of housing more than a dozen F-35B vertical takeoff-and-landing stealth fighter jets.

A government source on Monday said Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Park Han-ki and the chiefs of the Army, Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps in a meeting on July 12 decided to push for the project.

The carrier will be the Navy's biggest ship, nearly 1.5 times as large as the Dokdo or Marado landing platform helicopter ships.

It will be designed to accommodate 16 F-35B VTOL stealth jets, 3,000 marines, and 20 armored landing craft.

It will be about 250 m long, a little longer than Japan's Izumo-class helicopter carriers. Japan plans to turn two Izumo-class helicopter carriers into light aircraft carriers capable of accommodating about a dozen F-35B stealth jets by 2023.

Korea to Build Light Aircraft Carrier

 

[Michel Van]

In mean time North Korea builds new type large Submarine...

North Korea Shows Off Advanced New Submarine

North Korean leader Kim Jong Un examined a new submarine that experts believe could carry multiple missiles, including those with nuclear capabilities, in Pyongyang’s latest display of military strength as denuclearization talks with Washington remain gridlocked.

www.wsj.com

 

[Hood]

Hmm, advanced in the sense they took a cutter to an old Romeo and inserted a couple of missile tubes. An SSB of late 1950s style...

The South Korean 'carrier' sounds more like an LHA/LHD platform than a full-blown dedicated carrier.

 

[sferrin]

I've been saying for years now that, between China's behavior and the F-35B, we'd see both Japan and South Korea buying the F-35B for new flat tops. Japan's effort is well underway and now South Korea:

Hyundai Heavy Industries Wins Order for Next-Generation Large Transport Concept

"The Korean Navy currently operates two large helicopter carriers, and has now awarded Hyundai Heavy Industries a contract for the conceptual design of a larger ship, dubbed LPH II, capable of operating short take-off and landing fighters."

 

[TomcatViP]

서비스 종료 안내

 

[Archibald]

Makes tons of sense.

F-35B (VSTOL + stealth + supersonic + AMRAAM) allows the ROK and Japanese navies to "tackle" the chinese Liaoning and its improved clones with enlarged LPHs. Without ruining their much smaller economies / GDP building fleets of supercarriers...

 

[GTX]

South Korea showcases its revised light aircraft carrier conceptual design

The latest CGI of the ROKN's planned light aircraft carrier under the LPX-II program. Photo c/o ROKN. A revised concept design was released ...

www.asiapacificdefensejournal.com

 

[Rickshaw]

Looks rather like the QE11 has had rather an interesting influence on this ship...

 

[FighterJock]

South Korea showcases its revised light aircraft carrier conceptual design

The latest CGI of the ROKN's planned light aircraft carrier under the LPX-II program. Photo c/o ROKN. A revised concept design was released ...

www.asiapacificdefensejournal.com

I like the new South Korean aircraft carrier design, especially with the twin islands.

 

[AntPhillips]

Babcock have been involved in the design, hence some similarities to the QE and PoW design.

 

[JohnR]

Any information on the powerplant, is it an combination of diesel and gas turbine (MT30) the same as the QE's?

 

[GTX]

Any information on the powerplant, is it an combination of diesel and gas turbine (MT30) the same as the QE's?

Given it is most likely to be based on the Dokdo-class amphibious assault ship, I would expect the propulsion to be more in line with that. Thus something like four SEMT Pielstick 16 PC2.5 STC marine diesel engines

 

[kaiserbill]

I am not sure of the size though.

I agree it would be a logical choice, given the design origin, though it would be interesting to see which diesels they go for, if indeed that is the way they go.
The articles state this will be bigger than the Dokdo, and I have seen it said in some places this could be over 30 000t.

The Dokdo has about 32 000 hp for a displacement of about 19 000t. Speed is about 23 knots.
The San Antonio class LPD of the USN also uses SEMT Pielstick diesels, but pushing out around 40 000hp for a displacement of around 25 000t. Speed is about the same...23 knots.
I'm not completely up to date on SEMT Pielsticks range, but I can't really think of a more powerful 4- engine installation much above 40 000hp?

I reckon if it gets to much over the 30 000t mark, it will get LM2500 gas turbines, which are also used by the Korean navy.

 

[TomS]

Any information on the powerplant, is it an combination of diesel and gas turbine (MT30) the same as the QE's?

Given it is most likely to be based on the Dokdo-class amphibious assault ship, I would expect the propulsion to be more in line with that. Thus something like four SEMT Pielstick 16 PC2.5 STC marine diesel engines

There's some reporting that the LPX-II propulsion plant might be related to KDDX, which is likely to have some gas turbines.

DSME Completes Electric Propulsion System Development for ROK Navy's KDDX Destroyer - Naval News

South Korean shipbuilder Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering (DSME) completed the development of an new generation of electric propulsion system that could be fitted aboard the future KDDX destroyer and LPX-II LHD projects of the Republic of Korea Navy (ROK Navy).

www.navalnews.com

And as of 2019, GE was offering LM2500 for both KDDX and LPX-II, as part of some sort of either hybrid of integrated full electrical propulsion plant.

MADEX 2019: GE offers LM2500 engine for ROK Navy KDDX and LPX-II programs - Naval News

GE's gas turbine and electric drive power and propulsion systems are proven to meet the most demanding needs of world navies. Today at the MADEX International Marine Industrial Defense Exhibition, GE is highlighting its power and propulsion capabilities as they apply to two new proposed Republic...

www.navalnews.com

That said, the images posted most recently show exhaust stacks that are very similar to the Dokdos, which certainly supports the idea that the plant will be all-diesel. They haven't added the large air intakes/exhausts you'd expect for a turbine plant.

 

[H_K]

That said, the images posted most recently show exhaust stacks that are very similar to the Dokdos, which certainly supports the idea that the plant will be all-diesel. They haven't added the large air intakes/exhausts you'd expect for a turbine plant.

Not so sure. Those 4 round exhausts seem pretty big to me, bigger than Dokdo’s diesel exhausts and similar to Cavour’s (4x LM2500).

 

[helmutkohl]

some reports that the UK was going to help South Korea with their carrier but now SK is denying it.

on a related note, since its an actual carrier, not an LHD.. shouldnt they add a ski jump

S. Korea denies report on government-level talks with Britain on aircraft carrier tech | Yonhap News Agency

SEOUL, March 22 (Yonhap) -- The arms procurement agency on Monday denied a media report th...

en.yna.co.kr

 

[archipeppe]

some reports that the UK was going to help South Korea with their carrier but now SK is denying it.

on a related note, since its an actual carrier, not an LHD.. shouldnt they add a ski jump

S. Korea denies report on government-level talks with Britain on aircraft carrier tech | Yonhap News Agency

SEOUL, March 22 (Yonhap) -- The arms procurement agency on Monday denied a media report th...

en.yna.co.kr

The Trieste is actually a LPD/LHD and already has a ski jump....

 

[SSgtC]

some reports that the UK was going to help South Korea with their carrier but now SK is denying it.

on a related note, since its an actual carrier, not an LHD.. shouldnt they add a ski jump

S. Korea denies report on government-level talks with Britain on aircraft carrier tech | Yonhap News Agency

SEOUL, March 22 (Yonhap) -- The arms procurement agency on Monday denied a media report th...

en.yna.co.kr

Unless they're planning to go cats and traps and are trying to keep it quiet?

 

[Jason Dykstra (Wyvern)]

some reports that the UK was going to help South Korea with their carrier but now SK is denying it.

on a related note, since its an actual carrier, not an LHD.. shouldnt they add a ski jump

S. Korea denies report on government-level talks with Britain on aircraft carrier tech | Yonhap News Agency

SEOUL, March 22 (Yonhap) -- The arms procurement agency on Monday denied a media report th...

en.yna.co.kr

The Trieste is actually a LPD/LHD and already has a ski jump....

Not wanting to go off topic, but isn't the Trieste supposed to act as both an LPD/LHD and an aircraft carrier? I've read reports that it's supposed to replace the Giuseppe Garibaldi.

Getting back on topic, does anybody know the dimensions of the South Korean design, or have they not been released yet? My guess is that it's around the same size as the Trieste.

 

[archipeppe]

isn't the Trieste supposed to act as both an LPD/LHD and an aircraft carrier?

Yes, she wil cover both roles.
Primary LPD/LHD and Aircraft Carrier as spare unit when Cavour isn't available for maintenance reasons.

 

[helmutkohl]

isn't the Trieste supposed to act as both an LPD/LHD and an aircraft carrier?

Yes, she wil cover both roles.
Primary LPD/LHD and Aircraft Carrier as spare unit when Cavour isn't available for maintenance reasons.

so sorry for this off topic.
whats the aircraft capacity of cavour vs trieste? is hanger space the same?

okay back to the Korean carrier
it seems they ordered F-35Bs, so I guess cats are out?
if its primarily intended to fly Bs, a ski jump would make sense.

 

[archipeppe]

whats the aircraft capacity of cavour vs trieste? is hanger space the same?

The two ships has similiar dimension, somewhat longer the Cavour while somewhat larger the Trieste as also heavier (33.000 ton vs 27.900 ton).
Cavour has an hangar of 2.500 sqm while the Trieste has one of 2.300 sqm.

 

[helmutkohl]

^ thanks! sounds like Trieste is basically Cavour with one extra floor, for the landing dock stuff.

 

[archipeppe]

^ thanks! sounds like Trieste is basically Cavour with one extra floor, for the landing dock stuff.

Yes, exactly what the Italian Navy need as not only Garibaldi's replacement but also to "Santi Class" (San Marco, San Giorgio and San Giusto) small LPDs.

 

[Archibald]

thanks folks, I often wondered why and how these two were differents. The Italian navy surely has impressive ships.

 

[Hood]

some reports that the UK was going to help South Korea with their carrier but now SK is denying it.

on a related note, since its an actual carrier, not an LHD.. shouldnt they add a ski jump

S. Korea denies report on government-level talks with Britain on aircraft carrier tech | Yonhap News Agency

SEOUL, March 22 (Yonhap) -- The arms procurement agency on Monday denied a media report th...

en.yna.co.kr

Depends how to define 'carrier technologies'. Ammunition lifts and electrical power systems are not what you would necessarily think of as just applicable to carriers.
It could be a non-denial denial to keep the wraps on the carrier programme, or more likely Daewoo and Hyundai are putting on pressure to develop those items locally.

 

[EwenS]

^ thanks! sounds like Trieste is basically Cavour with one extra floor, for the landing dock stuff.

Yes, exactly what the Italian Navy need as not only Garibaldi's replacement but also to "Santi Class" (San Marco, San Giorgio and San Giusto) small LPDs.

The Italians are planning for 2 new ships (LHD) and an option on a third (LHA) to replace the Santi class. I’ve seen various report of 18,000 ton ships or 21,000/24,000 ton ships

 

[Thorvic]

I think you will find the South Korean and UK government's were probably discussing fact finding missions to the QNZL during her far east deployment to gauge F-35B operations from a dedicated STOVL carrier, they will be looking at the technology and the and how it is operated to see how they need to bring their carrier plans into fruition. They will also talk with the US, the Italians and maybe even France as Carrier operators before they finalise their own plans and place orders,

 

[archipeppe]

Here it is the LHD Trieste with the newly installed ski jump:

 

[Jason Dykstra (Wyvern)]

She's looking as good as ever!

 

[helmutkohl]

i really enjoy this chat about Trieste, but I started posting in this other thread about Trieste (and other Italian ships) here

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/the-first-trieste.32154/

also a question too

 

[FighterJock]

Here it is the LHD Trieste with the newly installed ski jump:

View attachment 653559

Looking very smart.

 

[helmutkohl]

back to Korea (but Italian carriers are indeeed nice)

Çرº °æÇ׸𠿣Áø, Àç·¡½Ä ÃßÁøü°è·Î °áÁ¤

Çرº, »ç¾÷ °ü·Ã ¾ð·Ð ¼³¸íȸ°¡½ºÅͺó¡¤ÇÏÀ̺긮µå È°¿ë °ËÅä°ÇÁ¶ºñ ´ëºÎºÐ ±¹³» »ê¾÷ ÀçÅõÀÚÁö³ 2¿ù 4ÀÏ ´ëÀü À¯¼º±¸ Ãæ³²´ëÇб³¿¡¼ ¿¸° ¡®Çرº-......

bemil.chosun.com

summary translation

• They decided against nuclear propulsion
• Not sure if to go for gas turbine or a hybrid one like the Aegis destroyer
• will be 30,000 tons displacement (roughly same as Cavour and Izumo at full load)
• 12-13 year period

 

[helmutkohl]

This appeared at MADEX today

not sure if this is the same light carrier Korea wants to build, or a dream project of Hyundais

 

[SSgtC]

In going with Hyundai pipedream. There is nothing "light" about that carrier. That thing has got to be at least 60,000 tons if not more. Not to mention, STOVL carriers that big have "buyers remorse" written all over them (look at how the UK tried to reorder the QE class as CATOBAR decks).

 

[helmutkohl]

In going with Hyundai pipedream. There is nothing "light" about that carrier. That thing has got to be at least 60,000 tons if not more. Not to mention, STOVL carriers that big have "buyers remorse" written all over them (look at how the UK tried to reorder the QE class as CATOBAR decks).

yeah I agree. it looks way too large for South Korea's needs, as most of their security threats come from its immediate neighbors.
(unless South Korea is thinking of exporting this design.. perhaps India? they are already actively pushing some armored systems there).

as for large ski jump carriers and buyers remorse..
I personally am on the fence about this.
in the 2000s when the UK was thinking of switching to CATOBAR, I was in the pro F-35C camp and disappointed they didn't go through with the change.

But in retrospect, I now appreciate the benefits of STOVL operations. namely less stress on carrier landings, easier to train pilots, and a rapid launch. It also seems that the 35B can take off at a full load if its launched further back, and has significant bring back capabilities if it does a rolling landing. The remaining issue is an E-2 like early warning capability.. but here's hoping the Osprey gets somewhere with that one day. Should they somehow achieve that (or something similar), does one still want CATOBAR?

 

[SSgtC]

In going with Hyundai pipedream. There is nothing "light" about that carrier. That thing has got to be at least 60,000 tons if not more. Not to mention, STOVL carriers that big have "buyers remorse" written all over them (look at how the UK tried to reorder the QE class as CATOBAR decks).

yeah I agree. it looks way too large for South Korea's needs, as most of their security threats come from its immediate neighbors.
(unless South Korea is thinking of exporting this design.. perhaps India? they are already actively pushing some armored systems there).

as for large ski jump carriers and buyers remorse..
I personally am on the fence about this.
in the 2000s when the UK was thinking of switching to CATOBAR, I was in the pro F-35C camp and disappointed they didn't go through with the change.

But in retrospect, I now appreciate the benefits of STOVL operations. namely less stress on carrier landings, easier to train pilots, and a rapid launch. It also seems that the 35B can take off at a full load if its launched further back, and has significant bring back capabilities if it does a rolling landing. The remaining issue is an E-2 like early warning capability.. but here's hoping the Osprey gets somewhere with that one day. Should they somehow achieve that (or something similar), does one still want CATOBAR?

Once the ships were laid down, it didn't make sense to switch to a full angled deck with cats and traps. It was just far too costly and would take too much time. IMO, it should have been CATOBAR from the start.

I'm not so sure it's easier to train a STOVL pilot than a CATOBAR one. I've always read that one of the most difficult things to do is transition a fast jet from straight ahead flight to vertical flight. Though perhaps the automation in the F-35 has eased that task.

Bring back is only good on the QEs because of the shipboard rolling landing the RN uses (which is some kind of strange love child between a traditional trap and a vertical landing). That bumped bring back capability considerably, but it still requires a decently sized roll out area. And without the angled deck, that means you just knocked down your sortie rate because you can't launch and recover simultaneously.

And yeah, you can launch from further back to increase payload. But now you're having to commit a massive amount of deck space to takeoff rolls instead of using it to prep your aircraft (which now has to be done in the hanger). Not a major issue, but it still decreases your sortie rate.

And as you point out, you have very limited options for AEW&C. The USN has no incentive to develop the Osprey as one (and really, quite a few incentives not too) since they have the Hawkeye. And while you could launch one from a ski jump, you still need wires to recover it.

 

[helmutkohl]

^ yes i do recall somewhere that while Harrier landings can be hard, the F-35B automated much of it, making it a lot easier.

I also agree with the conflicting deck space issues with STOVL, but during peace time which makes up a majority of the operations is it as nearly a major issue?

the AWACS situation, you're probably right.. it seems Osprey AWACS is very unlikely.. and the Brits last month, decided to nerf their Merlin radar, going for the older model instead of the AESA.

I just found a video of the two carriers.. the actual light carrier (the smaller one), and the new fantasy one.
Interestingly they show a part where theres a diagram that says it can be configured as STOBAR or STOVL.
I am now wondering if this is really intended for India not Korea

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9yZFqFBXHk

 

[SSgtC]

^ yes i do recall somewhere that while Harrier landings can be hard, the F-35B automated much of it, making it a lot easier.

I also agree with the conflicting deck space issues with STOVL, but during peace time which makes up a majority of the operations is it as nearly a major issue?

the AWACS situation, you're probably right.. it seems Osprey AWACS is very unlikely.. and the Brits last month, decided to nerf their Merlin radar, going for the older model instead of the AESA.

I just found a video of the two carriers.. the actual light carrier (the smaller one), and the new fantasy one.
Interestingly they show a part where theres a diagram that says it can be configured as STOBAR or STOVL.
I am now wondering if this is really intended for India not Korea

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9yZFqFBXHk

Well, you don't design a carrier for peace, you design it for war. Even if you never maximize its full warfighting capability, it's far safer to design it to maximize its usefulness in war and never use it then to say, "who cares about that extra efficiency? 90% of the carrier's life will be spent in peace time." That 10% spent fighting can really come back and bite you.

I doubt it's intended for India. They're already building indigenously. I mean, they might be interested in the base design, but I see a lot of "features" on that ship that any serious carrier Navy is going to nerf immediately.

 

[helmutkohl]

what features do you think they would nerf?