Discussion About Anti-Nuclear Energy/Arms Protest

[Rickshaw]

Note the use of the words "the first". How many more will there be? More than 14, I'd expect... :

 

[sferrin]

Note the use of the words "the first". How many more will there be? More than 14, I'd expect... :

I notice you gloss over the difference between one cancer diagnosis and 14 dead bodies. Also wind turbines haven't stopped killing people either.

 

[bobbymike]

Note the use of the words "the first". How many more will there be? More than 14, I'd expect... :

I notice you gloss over the difference between one cancer diagnosis and 14 dead bodies. Also wind turbines haven't stopped killing people either.

What they don't admit, although sometimes it gets out, is that the desire to plaster over the planet with God awful ugly solar panels and wind turbines they would GLADLY exchange that for a few hundred million fewer human beings. Scratch an environmentalist you find a humanity hater.

 

[sferrin]

Note the use of the words "the first". How many more will there be? More than 14, I'd expect... :

I notice you gloss over the difference between one cancer diagnosis and 14 dead bodies. Also wind turbines haven't stopped killing people either.

What they don't admit, although sometimes it gets out, is that the desire to plaster over the planet with God awful ugly solar panels and wind turbines they would GLADLY exchange that for a few hundred million fewer human beings. Scratch an environmentalist you find a humanity hater.

What really drives it home is that they want to plague the countryside with wind turbine and solar power plants yet they don't want them anywhere near their residence. You can bet KadijaMan wouldn't get caught dead living on a wind turbine farm. Hell, "streamers" are probably as exciting as fireworks for him.

http://www.eenews.net/stories/1060011853

"
While bird kills happen at all energy projects, Ivanpah has had an outsize amount of press attention -- possibly because it's the largest power tower project in the world and because it got a $1.6 billion loan guarantee from the Department of Energy.
Trouble began last April with the release of a Fish and Wildlife Service forensics report documenting debris, birds and insects -- all known as "streamers" -- going up in smoke at Ivanpah. Vivid pictures of charred birds spawned headlines.
According to the report, Fish and Wildlife enforcement officers reported seeing an average of one streamer every two minutes.
One falconlike bird was seen with a plume of smoke rising from its tail as it flew through the field. It lost stability and altitude but was able to clear the plant's perimeter and land, the officers said. It was never found."

 

[bobbymike]

Note the use of the words "the first". How many more will there be? More than 14, I'd expect... :

I notice you gloss over the difference between one cancer diagnosis and 14 dead bodies. Also wind turbines haven't stopped killing people either.

What they don't admit, although sometimes it gets out, is that the desire to plaster over the planet with God awful ugly solar panels and wind turbines they would GLADLY exchange that for a few hundred million fewer human beings. Scratch an environmentalist you find a humanity hater.

What really drives it home is that they want to plague the countryside with wind turbine and solar power plants yet they don't want them anywhere near their residence. You can bet KadijaMan wouldn't get caught dead living on a wind turbine farm. Hell, "streamers" are probably as exciting as fireworks for him.

http://www.eenews.net/stories/1060011853

"
While bird kills happen at all energy projects, Ivanpah has had an outsize amount of press attention -- possibly because it's the largest power tower project in the world and because it got a $1.6 billion loan guarantee from the Department of Energy.
Trouble began last April with the release of a Fish and Wildlife Service forensics report documenting debris, birds and insects -- all known as "streamers" -- going up in smoke at Ivanpah. Vivid pictures of charred birds spawned headlines.
According to the report, Fish and Wildlife enforcement officers reported seeing an average of one streamer every two minutes.
One falconlike bird was seen with a plume of smoke rising from its tail as it flew through the field. It lost stability and altitude but was able to clear the plant's perimeter and land, the officers said. It was never found."

Just imagine birds flying over a fracking site and bursting into flames or dropping dead out of the sky every couple minutes or so. There would be thousands protesting calling for the entire industry to be shuttered and Congress would pass legislation in a DAY!!

 

[starviking]

First Fukushima worker diagnosed with radiation-linked cancer, Japanese officials say

Hmm. AFP. I wonder if there is anything misleading.

The official added that other possible causes of the illness had been ruled out.

Oh! That's strange, because other news sources have things like this:

"While the causal link between his exposure to radiation and his illness is unclear, we certified him from the standpoint of worker compensation," a health ministry official said in quotes carried by Kyodo news agency.

And

For leukemia to be certified as an industrial accident caused by radiation exposure, a claimant must meet certain requirements, such as being exposed to radiation of at least 5 millisieverts in a year, and having developed the illness more than a year after they were first exposed to radiation.

So, Japan is covering the compensation of a worker who may, or may not, have a radiation-induced cancer.


Of course, "may or may not" does not get page clicks, so AFP throw their journalistic credentials in the shredder and go for the $$$.

 

[Rickshaw]

Interesting attacks on the source and the differences between (clean) alternative energy sources and (radioactive) nuclear sources on the basis of aesthetics. We had a recent Prime Minister downunder who "hated" Wind Turbines because of the "noise" they produced and their "ugliness". His Treasurer supported his view, the result was a load of pictures showing open cut coal mines which dominated the landscape compared to the tiny Wind Turbines in the distance.

 

[bobbymike]

Ya those five turbines produce power for how many homes? Invalid comparison three points

1) without pictures I bet you've never seen a coal mine or tar sands operation while I have driven by many windmill sites that are an ugly blight on the landscape

2) Why don't you find information on the total energy found in the tar sands, use Alberta, in the tens of billions of barrels and trillions of BTUs AND THEN show EXACTLY how many windmills taking up how much space at a cost of how much to construct would be needed to replace that mine.

3) Please prey tell how windmills get built? Are seeds planted in the ground and they pop-up out of nothing OR the factories and mines and concrete plants and metal smelters needed to build them.

Yes it's windmill paradise :

Mine reclamation ever heard of it?

http://oilsands.alberta.ca/reclamation.html

https://www.prageru.com/courses/environmental-science/can-we-rely-wind-and-solar-energy

80% Alberta Oilsands is insitu sagd meaning no mining oil recovered much like conventional oil.

In Situ


Approximately 80% of Canada's oil sands are too deep to mine and must be tapped using in situ production, which is similar to conventional oil production. Increased in situ production is a key part of Suncor's plans to increase bitumen supply while reducing costs and our impact on the environment.

At MacKay River and Firebag (named after the traditional bags Aboriginal Peoples once used to carry fire-starting flints), Suncor uses steam-assisted gravity drainage (SAGD):
##Parallel pairs of horizontal wells are drilled: one for steam injection and one for oil recovery.
##Recovered bitumen is sent by pipeline to our upgrading facility.
##MacKay River began producing oil in 2002.
##Firebag stages 1 and 2 began producing oil in 2004 and 2006 respectively. Firebag stage 3 began producing oil in 2011.
##Firebag stage 4 began producing first oil in December 2012.

In situ development has important benefits:
##Resource access. In situ technology opens up the potential to recover large reserves that can't be reached economically by traditional mining methods. An independent evaluation of Suncor's in situ leases estimates recoverable resources with a potential to produce about nine billion barrels of crude oil.
##Staged growth. In situ technology has the advantage of being well-suited to development in smaller increments, making costs and schedules more manageable.
##Reduced environmental footprint. MacKay River and Firebag use recycled water in a closed system for steam generation. In situ development disturbs only about 15% of the surface land in the development area.
##Potential for lower costs. In situ technology is a proven, but relatively young, technology. As Suncor gains experience with operating MacKay River and Firebag, and as we continue to invest in research and development, we believe there is potential to reduce the costs of recovery.

 

[Orionblamblam]

3) Please prey tell how windmills get built?

The great irony here is that windmills are *made* from fossil fuels. I suppose you could make one of these monsters out of metal and wood, but the weight would be impressive and the performance poor.

 

[Rickshaw]

Ya those five turbines produce power for how many homes? Invalid comparison three points

1) without pictures I bet you've never seen a coal mine or tar sands operation while I have driven by many windmill sites that are an ugly blight on the landscape

And Coal Mines and Tar Sands operations aren't? I'd rather have windmills turning gently in the wind than seeing good farming land turned over to Coal or Tar Sand's production which adds substantially to Global Warming.

2) Why don't you find information on the total energy found in the tar sands, use Alberta, in the tens of billions of barrels and trillions of BTUs AND THEN show EXACTLY how many windmills taking up how much space at a cost of how much to construct would be needed to replace that mine.

Total energy extracted at what cost to the environment? You may like the idea of Global Warming but those who live in low-lying coastal regions don't like the idea of the ice caps melting and storm surges overcoming their farming fields and homes. Nor do sane people like the idea of increased storm activity nor more hot or cold days than are necessary. For once in your life think about your planet!

3) Please prey tell how windmills get built? Are seeds planted in the ground and they pop-up out of nothing OR the factories and mines and concrete plants and metal smelters needed to build them.
Mine reclamation ever heard of it?

They are manufactured. Their manufacture requires the expenditure of energy which they produce so apart from the costs of the initial manufacturing, they are self sustaining.

http://oilsands.alberta.ca/reclamation.html

https://www.prageru.com/courses/environmental-science/can-we-rely-wind-and-solar-energy

80% Alberta Oilsands is insitu sagd meaning no mining oil recovered much like conventional oil.

In Situ

The oil must be recovered from the sand. The sand is disturbed and sterilised by the process of recovery. Coal mines destroy the surface and sub-soil structures and water table. No open cut coal mine is ever as good again as it was before the coal mine was created. Government regulations are invariably inadequate and the miners refuse to spend the necessary quantities of cash required to make good their exploitation of the land. The farmers are left with ruined land, which is no where as productive as it once was.

 

[sferrin]

Ya those five turbines produce power for how many homes? Invalid comparison three points

1) without pictures I bet you've never seen a coal mine or tar sands operation while I have driven by many windmill sites that are an ugly blight on the landscape

And Coal Mines and Tar Sands operations aren't?

Not even close.

I'd rather have windmills turning gently in the wind

You mean swatting birds from the air like giant bug zappers?

http://savetheeaglesinternational.org/new/us-windfarms-kill-10-20-times-more-than-previously-thought.html

than seeing good farming land turned over to Coal or Tar Sand's production which adds substantially to Global Warming.

How much actual farm land has been converted to coal or tar sand production? Numbers and sources please. Oh, and numbers for how much they add to global warming. Clearly you must have numbers on hand to claim they "add substantially to Global Warming". I'd like to see them.

Total energy extracted at what cost to the environment?

What cost indeed? Show us the numbers and your sources.

You may like the idea of Global Warming but those who live in low-lying coastal regions don't like the idea of the ice caps melting and storm surges overcoming their farming fields and homes.

They should move then. It doesn't take fossil fuels to make the ice caps melt. Any semi-intelligent mouth breather knows that at most of the time in the past the ice caps didn't even exist.

http://science.jrank.org/pages/5371/Polar-Ice-Caps-Polar-ice-caps-geologic-history.html

"Ice cap climates have only existed in ice ages. There have been at least five such ice ages in the Earth's past. Outside these ages, the Earth seems to have been ice-free even in high latitudes.[7][8] By the geologic definition, Earth is currently in an ice age, in that the planet has permanent ice caps. Factors that cause ice ages include changes to the atmosphere, the arrangement of continents, the energy received from the sun, volcanos, and meteor impacts.

The current era is believed to be the only time in the last 600 million years of Earth's history with ice caps at both poles.[citation needed] The Antarctic ice cap was formed after Antarctica split from South America, allowing the formation of the Antarctic Circumpolar Current. The Arctic ice cap was partially caused by the Azolla event, where a large number of ferns in the ocean died, sank, and never decayed, which trapped carbon dioxide beneath the ocean.[citation needed]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_cap_climate

Nor do sane people like the idea of increased storm activity nor more hot or cold days than are necessary. For once in your life think about your planet!

ROTFLMAO!!!!

They are manufactured. Their manufacture requires the expenditure of energy which they produce so apart from the costs of the initial manufacturing, they are self sustaining.

They are made out of fossil fuels with energy produced by fossil fuels. And they murder more life than nuclear power.

 

[Rickshaw]

Ya those five turbines produce power for how many homes? Invalid comparison three points

1) without pictures I bet you've never seen a coal mine or tar sands operation while I have driven by many windmill sites that are an ugly blight on the landscape

And Coal Mines and Tar Sands operations aren't?

Not even close.

Sure of that?

I'd rather have windmills turning gently in the wind

You mean swatting birds from the air like giant bug zappers?

http://savetheeaglesinternational.org/new/us-windfarms-kill-10-20-times-more-than-previously-thought.html

I wonder how well the Eagles do the devastated environment your tar sands create? Real well, I expect... :
[/quote][/quote]

 

[sferrin]

I wonder how well the Eagles do the devastated environment your tar sands create? Real well, I expect... :

Pretty sure there are no "streamers" over tar sand operations. :

http://www.eenews.net/stories/1060011853

"Trouble began last April with the release of a Fish and Wildlife Service forensics report documenting debris, birds and insects -- all known as "streamers" -- going up in smoke at Ivanpah. Vivid pictures of charred birds spawned headlines.

According to the report, Fish and Wildlife enforcement officers reported seeing an average of one streamer every two minutes.

One falconlike bird was seen with a plume of smoke rising from its tail as it flew through the field. It lost stability and altitude but was able to clear the plant's perimeter and land, the officers said. It was never found."

Yeah, let's have more of that. :

And check out these idyllic, Utopian eyesores.

 

[bobbymike]

I wonder how well the Eagles do the devastated environment your tar sands create? Real well, I expect... :

[/quote]

Pretty sure there are no "streamers" over tar sand operations. :

http://www.eenews.net/stories/1060011853

"Trouble began last April with the release of a Fish and Wildlife Service forensics report documenting debris, birds and insects -- all known as "streamers" -- going up in smoke at Ivanpah. Vivid pictures of charred birds spawned headlines.

According to the report, Fish and Wildlife enforcement officers reported seeing an average of one streamer every two minutes.

One falconlike bird was seen with a plume of smoke rising from its tail as it flew through the field. It lost stability and altitude but was able to clear the plant's perimeter and land, the officers said. It was never found."

Yeah, let's have more of that. :

And check out these idyllic, Utopian eyesores.


[/quote]
And again never addresses the fact that I bet he's NEVER seen an Oilsands mine when driving on a major public road OR from his house. I'VE been to Fort McMurray the actual operations are invisible from populated areas NOT SO for the wind farms located very close to populated areas as the numerous picture attest.

Also never addresses the very strong reclamation activity where I've nicely included a video AND AGAIN I'VE BEEN there and walked on reclaimed mining areas surrounded by fauna and flora.

 

[sferrin]

And KMan still hasn't said if he'd live on a wind turbine farm. I'm guessing his answer is "hell no".

 

[Orionblamblam]

And KMan still hasn't said if he'd live on a wind turbine farm. I'm guessing his answer is "hell no".

Sferrin: there is a treatment for the problem you seem to be afflicted with. I've tried it myself and found it wonderfully effective at reducing the incidence of outbreaks of idiotarianitis.

Ask your doctor if Ignoremol is right for you.


Side effects may include: nausea, vomiting, water weight gain, lower back pain, receding hairline, eczema, seporiasoriasis, itching, chafing clothing, liver spots, blood clots, Drafa, ringworm, brain clouds, excessive body odor, uneven tire wear, pyorrhea, gonorrhea, diarrhea, halitosis, scoliosis, loss of bladder control, deja vu, hammertoe, the shanks, NRS, low sperm count, warped floors, cluttered drawers, UBT, hunchback, heart attack, Andromeda strain, low resale value on your home, feline leukemia, athlete's foot, head lice, clubfoot, MS, MD, VD, fleas, deja vu, anxiety, sleeplessness, drowsiness, bone-itis, poor gas mileage, dragon pox, the ick, tooth decay, parvo, warts, vaginal priapism, unibrow, lazy eye, fruit flies, chest pains, clogged drains, hemorrhoids, dry heaving, sexual dysfunction, testicular inversion, olfactory hallucinations, slight pregnancy, minor blindness, idiopathic colitis, spontaneous polydactylism, a need for speed, St. John's Wart, St. Vitus' Dance, Cleveland steamers, skeletal inversion, deja vu, and Palpatines Syndrome.

 

[sferrin]

I actually have him on ignore but sometimes I can't help but take a peek. Like watching a car crash. :-\

 

[Orionblamblam]

I actually have him on ignore but sometimes I can't help but take a peek. Like watching a car crash. :-\

You have to stay on your doctor prescribed Ignoremol regimen if you want the treatment to work. As with antibiotics, if you stop the treatment too soon the infection can come roaring back.

 

[Rickshaw]

And again never addresses the fact that I bet he's NEVER seen an Oilsands mine when driving on a major public road OR from his house. I'VE been to Fort McMurray the actual operations are invisible from populated areas NOT SO for the wind farms located very close to populated areas as the numerous picture attest.

Also never addresses the very strong reclamation activity where I've nicely included a video AND AGAIN I'VE BEEN there and walked on reclaimed mining areas surrounded by fauna and flora.

But as any environment scientist will tell you, the areas are never as rich or productive again. Whether I have seen one or not is immaterial when I can see the photos of what a Tar Sands or a Coal Mine is like. I have actually been to Coal Mines BTW. They are dusty, disgusting environmental disasters and whether nor not they are visible from a highway is immaterial when they are, as they in the NSW Hunter Valley intermixed with farms and townships where people live.

 

[Rickshaw]

And KMan still hasn't said if he'd live on a wind turbine farm. I'm guessing his answer is "hell no".

As this is the first time you've asked me, I am unsure what you're going on about. As far as I am concerned, I'd be less worried living on or near a wind turbine farm than near or on an open cut coal mine or a tar sands site. At least I'd be able to drink the water.

 

[sferrin]

I actually have him on ignore but sometimes I can't help but take a peek. Like watching a car crash. :-\

You have to stay on your doctor prescribed Ignoremol regimen if you want the treatment to work. As with antibiotics, if you stop the treatment too soon the infection can come roaring back.

True. Alright, no more rubber-necking.

 

[bobbymike]

http://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/nuclear/first-new-us-nuclear-reactor-in-two-decades-to-begin-fueling-in-tennessee

 

[bobbymike]

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/10/19/wind-turbines-may-reduce-breeding-success-of-white-tailed-eagles/

 

[Arjen]

From the linked piece:

“As wind farms are expected to expand in the future, we need to be aware of their potential negative effects on various species,” said Fabio Balotari-Chiebao, lead author of the Animal Conservation study. “The implementation of preventive measures aimed at the protection of species that are vulnerable to turbine-related incidents will allow the use of this energy source without compromising the local biodiversity.”

 

[sferrin]

From the linked piece:

“As wind farms are expected to expand in the future, we need to be aware of their potential negative effects on various species,” said Fabio Balotari-Chiebao, lead author of the Animal Conservation study. “The implementation of preventive measures aimed at the protection of species that are vulnerable to turbine-related incidents will allow the use of this energy source without compromising the local biodiversity.”

What are they going to do, mount giant protective cages over all wind turbines like giant office fans? : That'll definitely make them more visually appealing.

 

[Arjen]

Abstract here:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/acv.12238/abstract?campaign=wolearlyview

Get a subscription and read it for yourself.

 

[sferrin]

Abstract here:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/acv.12238/abstract?campaign=wolearlyview

Get a subscription and read it for yourself.

So basically, "don't put wind turbines where there are birds". So no wind turbines in the air. Got it. I hope they didn't hurt themselves acquiring this brilliant piece of insight.

 

[Arjen]

It's what's being acted on around where I live. Wind turbine construction is proceeding nicely.

 

[Rickshaw]

Alberta faces growing backlog of abandoned oil and gas wells

 

[sferrin]

It's what's being acted on around where I live. Wind turbine construction is proceeding nicely.

I'm sure the birds are ever so grateful.

 

[bobbymike]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/28/opinion/the-new-atomic-age-we-need.html?_r=1

 

[bobbymike]

http://news.investors.com/blogs-capital-hill/110415-779176-we-are-not-running-out-of-oil-earth-produces-crude.htm

 

[Rickshaw]

http://news.investors.com/blogs-capital-hill/110415-779176-we-are-not-running-out-of-oil-earth-produces-crude.htm

I do hope that is satire.

 

[marauder2048]

http://news.investors.com/blogs-capital-hill/110415-779176-we-are-not-running-out-of-oil-earth-produces-crude.htm

I do hope that is satire.

Credit where credit is due: the abiotic theory of hydrocarbon production was first propounded by the Russians.

 

[Rickshaw]

http://news.investors.com/blogs-capital-hill/110415-779176-we-are-not-running-out-of-oil-earth-produces-crude.htm

I do hope that is satire.

Credit where credit is due: the abiotic theory of hydrocarbon production was first propounded by the Russians.

Fair enough but that piece reads like it was written by the Fossil Fuel Appreciation Society. Fossil Fuels are on their way out, no matter what that piece claims. Whether it's alternative or nuclear the future energy is not going to be Fossil.

 

[CJGibson]

"Credit where credit is due: the abiotic theory of hydrocarbon production was first propounded by the Russians."

Thomas Gold was a big fan of it as well and persuaded the Swedes to drill a well in a meteorite crater (the ultimate fracking job) in the late Eighties. I was on that job for a while, which was interesting for about two days. I learned two things: 1) how to drive like Ari Vatanen 2) never hit a moose*.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siljan_Ring

Chris

*no, I didn't, but the prospect scared the life out of me due to No.1

 

[bobbymike]

http://nextbigfuture.com/2016/01/breakthroughs-in-high-power-fiber.html

http://nextbigfuture.com/2016/01/technological-progress-in-big-data.html

 

[Rickshaw]

http://nextbigfuture.com/2016/01/breakthroughs-in-high-power-fiber.html

http://nextbigfuture.com/2016/01/technological-progress-in-big-data.html

What do either have to do with anti-nuclear protests?

 

[bobbymike]

If you haven't noticed this thread has been a catch all for posts about nuclear, wind, solar and other energy sources. So rather than start a new thread this seems like the thread to continue the discussion of all things energy.

 

[bobbymike]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100080019/wind-farms-kill-whales-blubber-on-the-green-movements-hands/