DD(X) DDG-1000 Zumwalt-class destroyers

[RP1]

The question is of course whether we can build IR or Radar seeker that can withstand over thousands of G's so our railgun can have application against moving target. Accelerating rounds at 0.0015 sec in railgun barrel to mach 7 can exert over 161,000 of G force.

More like 30,000-40,000G for the 64MJ designs. A 155mm conventional gun might be 16,000G. Heating effects and limitations on the nose shape might prove more of a limitation on guidance methods. we shall see.

 

[fredymac]

Wave piercing bow seems to work although anyone doing the Titanic "I'm Flying" pose will get a face full of spray.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGwNvEr7Rg4

 

[sferrin]

Have these ever been in really heavy seas? With their high freeboard I would think they'd be okay but I'm definitely no navel architect.

 

[Moose]

1000 has seen some decent size seas, 1001 may have on its trials as well though I don't know. The computers and the scale models like Sea Jet both say the hull can take the big stuff pretty well, though differently from a conventional hull.

 

[bobbymike]

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2018/02/15/its-official-the-navys-new-stealth-destroyers-will-be-ship-killers/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DFN%20DNR%202.15.18&utm_term=Editorial%20-%20Daily%20News%20Roundup

 

[Triton]

In July 2007 Christopher P. Cavas reported in Navy Times that the Center for Naval Analyses Analysis of Alternatives (AoA) may recommend two different ships to form the CG(X) program. "One ship would be a 14,000-ton derivative of the DDG 1000, an "escort cruiser," to protect aircraft carrier strike groups. The vessel would keep the tumblehome hull of the DDG 1000 and its gas turbine power plant. The other new cruiser would be a much larger, 25,000-ton nuclear-powered ship with a more conventional flared bow, optimized for the ballistic missile defense (BMD) mission. In all, five large CGN(X) ships and 14 escort cruisers would be built to fulfill the cruiser requirement in the Navy's 30-year, 313-ship plan, which calls for replacing today's CG 47 Ticonderoga-class Aegis cruisers and adding a specially designed sea-based missile defense force."

Source:
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/cgn-x.htm

 

[bring_it_on]

In July 2007 Christopher P. Cavas reported in Navy Times that the Center for Naval Analyses Analysis of Alternatives (AoA) may recommend two different ships to form the CG(X) program. "One ship would be a 14,000-ton derivative of the DDG 1000, an "escort cruiser," to protect aircraft carrier strike groups. The vessel would keep the tumblehome hull of the DDG 1000 and its gas turbine power plant. The other new cruiser would be a much larger, 25,000-ton nuclear-powered ship with a more conventional flared bow, optimized for the ballistic missile defense (BMD) mission. In all, five large CGN(X) ships and 14 escort cruisers would be built to fulfill the cruiser requirement in the Navy's 30-year, 313-ship plan, which calls for replacing today's CG 47 Ticonderoga-class Aegis cruisers and adding a specially designed sea-based missile defense force."

Pre BCA..those were the days...

 

[Triton]

In July 2007 Christopher P. Cavas reported in Navy Times that the Center for Naval Analyses Analysis of Alternatives (AoA) may recommend two different ships to form the CG(X) program. "One ship would be a 14,000-ton derivative of the DDG 1000, an "escort cruiser," to protect aircraft carrier strike groups. The vessel would keep the tumblehome hull of the DDG 1000 and its gas turbine power plant. The other new cruiser would be a much larger, 25,000-ton nuclear-powered ship with a more conventional flared bow, optimized for the ballistic missile defense (BMD) mission. In all, five large CGN(X) ships and 14 escort cruisers would be built to fulfill the cruiser requirement in the Navy's 30-year, 313-ship plan, which calls for replacing today's CG 47 Ticonderoga-class Aegis cruisers and adding a specially designed sea-based missile defense force."

Pre BCA..those were the days...

Board of Contract Appeals?

 

[bring_it_on]

Budget control Act..

 

[marauder2048]

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2018/02/15/its-official-the-navys-new-stealth-destroyers-will-be-ship-killers/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DFN%20DNR%202.15.18&utm_term=Editorial%20-%20Daily%20News%20Roundup

So is this SM-6 with a dual-band data link? Or an SM-2 Block IIIAZ style SM-6?

 

[bring_it_on]

The reference to the SM6 is vague and it does not carry over to the schedule shared later (Tomahawk does). Also,

The Advanced Gun Systems will remain on the ships, but in an inactive status for future use, when a gun round that can affordably meet the desired capability is developed and fielded.

 

[Colonial-Marine]

No news on whatever that ammunition will actually be? I know there was talk of a modified Excalibur. Maybe the Italians would try up-scaling their Vulcano?

 

[Moose]

No news on whatever that ammunition will actually be? I know there was talk of a modified Excalibur. Maybe the Italians would try up-scaling their Vulcano?

Excalibur and Vulcano options were not funded. The only way they end up on the ship in the near future is if Raytheon or Leonardo agree to eat all the integration and testing costs, even then you'd have to convince the DoD to actually buy the stuff. The HVP in an AGS sabot may or may not have had it's funding zeroed as well. They're leaving open the possibility of getting new rounds in a future budget, but for now the AGS only has the existing stockpile for testing the guns and then they'll essentially go into stasis.

 

[marauder2048]

The Navy did buy some Vulcano and PGK-Aft rounds for testing on the 5 inch guns.
But per Moose's remarks, the NRE costs for adapting them for AGS are probably
prohibitive for six tubes.

 

[marauder2048]

Sea-launched cruise missile could be deployed on surface ships, potentially DDG-1000s

February 16, 2018 | Justin Doubleday

The Pentagon is considering deploying a new nuclear-tipped, sea-launched cruise missile on surface ships such
as the Zumwalt-class destroyers as well as submarines, according to the head of U.S. Strategic Command.

Air Force Gen. John Hyten said the Defense Department's fiscal year 2019 budget request includes tasking to look
at platforms for carrying the new weapon. The Trump administration's recently unveiled Nuclear Posture Review
calls for developing the SLCM to provide the U.S. military with a "flexible," low-yield nuclear capability.

Though many have assumed the SLCM would only be deployed on submarines, Hyten said surface options could
include the Navy's new Zumwalt-class destroyers (DDG-1000). The service only plans to build three such ships.

"It's important to note the NPR, when it talks about the sea-launched cruise missile, it does not say 'submarine-launched,'"
he said during a Feb. 16 NPR policy summit at National Defense University in Washington. "It says sea-launched, because
we want to look at a number of options, everything from surface, DDG-1000s, into submarines, different types of submarines,
fast attack submarines, [guided-missile submarines], [ballistic-missile submarines], look across those boards and make
sure we know what it is."

...

https://insidedefense.com/daily-news/sea-launched-cruise-missile-could-be-deployed-surface-ships-potentially-ddg-1000s

 

[Colonial-Marine]

Excalibur and Vulcano options were not funded. The only way they end up on the ship in the near future is if Raytheon or Leonardo agree to eat all the integration and testing costs, even then you'd have to convince the DoD to actually buy the stuff. The HVP in an AGS sabot may or may not have had it's funding zeroed as well. They're leaving open the possibility of getting new rounds in a future budget, but for now the AGS only has the existing stockpile for testing the guns and then they'll essentially go into stasis.

If that info about the HVP only having a 2 lb bursting charge is correct it doesn't even seem suitable for naval gunfire support. I know they're talking about the HVP doing other things like engage aircraft or missiles though, maybe that's all it's intended for.

Maybe they're going about this in the wrong order for the 155mm AGS and should concentrate on unguided ballistic-trajectory ammunition first. At least that would give the guns something to shoot.

 

[marauder2048]

From the EA on the HVP:

Kinetic energy dispensing variant, which would be used against air targets. This variant
would contain 0.2 pound (0.1 kilogram) of explosives to burst the casing of the
projectile and dispense tungsten pellets.

 

[marauder2048]

From GAO's "WEAPON SYSTEMS ANNUAL ASSESSMENT" April 2018 (my highlights).

 

[seruriermarshal]

GD Bath Iron Works Delivered the future USS Michael Monsoor (DDG 1001) to the US Navy

Posted On Wednesday, 25 April 2018 09:31

The U.S. Navy accepted hull, mechanical and electrical (HM&E) delivery of the future USS Michael Monsoor (DDG 1001) from shipbuilder General Dynamics Bath Iron Works (BIW) April 24.

Delivery of DDG 1001 follows extensive tests, trials and demonstrations of the ship's HM&E systems, including the boat handling, anchor and mooring systems as well as major demonstrations of the damage control, ballasting, navigation and communications systems.

"Delivery of DDG 1001 marks the culmination of years of dedication and hard work from our Navy and industry team," said Capt. Kevin Smith, DDG 1000 program manager, Program Executive Office, Ships. "We have incorporated many lessons learned from DDG 1000 and are proud of the end result. DDG 1001 will be a tremendous asset to the Navy."

The 610-foot, wave-piercing tumblehome ship design provides a wide array of advancements. The shape of the superstructure and the arrangement of its antennas significantly reduce radar cross section, making the ship less visible to enemy radars.

Like the first ship of the class, USS Zumwalt (DDG 1000), DDG 1001 employs an innovative and highly survivable integrated power system (IPS), distributing 1,000 volts of direct current across the ship. The IPS's unique architectural capabilities include the ability to allocate all 78 megawatts of installed power to propulsion, ship's service and combat system loads from the same gas turbine prime movers based on operational requirements.

DDG 1000-class ships are delivered through a two-phase approach in which combat systems are installed and activated subsequent to HM&E delivery. Following HM&E delivery, Michael Monsoor will transit to its homeport in San Diego, California, for commissioning in January 2019 and to begin combat systems activation, testing and trials.

DDG 1001 is the second ship of the Zumwalt class. The third and final ship of the class, the future USS Lyndon B. Johnson (DDG 1002), is currently in construction at BIW's shipyard along with Arleigh Burke-class destroyers Daniel Inouye (DDG 118), Carl M. Levin (DDG 120) and John Basilone (DDG 122).

 

[Moose]

From GAO's "WEAPON SYSTEMS ANNUAL ASSESSMENT" April 2018 (my highlights).

If the Zumwalt hull ends up forming a baseline for the CG, it's imperative that additional units are purchased to bridge the gap until Cruiser buys start. Every year of gap will just make the process of re-starting that much more problematic.

 

[sferrin]

From GAO's "WEAPON SYSTEMS ANNUAL ASSESSMENT" April 2018 (my highlights).

If the Zumwalt hull ends up forming a baseline for the CG, it's imperative that additional units are purchased to bridge the gap until Cruiser buys start. Every year of gap will just make the process of re-starting that much more problematic.

Last thing we want is another Burke situation.

 

[Foo Fighter]

From GAO's "WEAPON SYSTEMS ANNUAL ASSESSMENT" April 2018 (my highlights).

If the Zumwalt hull ends up forming a baseline for the CG, it's imperative that additional units are purchased to bridge the gap until Cruiser buys start. Every year of gap will just make the process of re-starting that much more problematic.

This would appear to be unobtainium, might as well bring the cruiser requirement forward but that would have to be new money which is unlikely.

 

[sferrin]

From GAO's "WEAPON SYSTEMS ANNUAL ASSESSMENT" April 2018 (my highlights).

If the Zumwalt hull ends up forming a baseline for the CG, it's imperative that additional units are purchased to bridge the gap until Cruiser buys start. Every year of gap will just make the process of re-starting that much more problematic.

This would appear to be unobtainium, might as well bring the cruiser requirement forward but that would have to be new money which is unlikely.

If the case is there for the Zumwalt to form the basis of the next cruiser then it could be argued that keeping the line "hot" would reduce the overall program cost.

 

[Moose]

From GAO's "WEAPON SYSTEMS ANNUAL ASSESSMENT" April 2018 (my highlights).

If the Zumwalt hull ends up forming a baseline for the CG, it's imperative that additional units are purchased to bridge the gap until Cruiser buys start. Every year of gap will just make the process of re-starting that much more problematic.

This would appear to be unobtainium, might as well bring the cruiser requirement forward but that would have to be new money which is unlikely.

Adding "extra" money for shipbuilding has become something of par for the course. A sizable chunk of the LPD-17 class has been funded by Congress inserting in money that the Navy didn't explicitly request, and the Columbia-class may (may) end up funded in part outside the shipbuilding budget. If Richardson and Co. walked over to the Hill and said "hey we believe ordering 2-3 more DDG-1000s would help make the transition to the CG easier and more affordable, plus jobs" they might get it.

 

[NeilChapman]

At one point, the IPS was supposed to be somewhat common between the Future Surface Combatant family of ships. What is the status of IPS today?

Thanks!

 

[Moose]

At one point, the IPS was supposed to be somewhat common between the Future Surface Combatant family of ships. What is the status of IPS today?

Thanks!

Status as in how is it doing on DDG-1000 or as in what are it's prospects for the future? In the former, none of the hulls have been in service long enough to really see how IPS performs, but thus far it's not waved any big red flags. As to the future, the Navy can't get its story straight about the next combatant so it's hard to nail it down. They know they need lots of power, and they view IPS as a good way to make a lot of power available in the next hull, but they won't be pinned down on anything yet. They claim they want to start buying the new combatant in 2023, so it seems a bit silly that they can't define the goal for something as basic as the general power architecture, but here we are.

 

[NeilChapman]

At one point, the IPS was supposed to be somewhat common between the Future Surface Combatant family of ships. What is the status of IPS today?

Thanks!

Status as in how is it doing on DDG-1000 or as in what are it's prospects for the future? In the former, none of the hulls have been in service long enough to really see how IPS performs, but thus far it's not waved any big red flags. As to the future, the Navy can't get its story straight about the next combatant so it's hard to nail it down. They know they need lots of power, and they view IPS as a good way to make a lot of power available in the next hull, but they won't be pinned down on anything yet. They claim they want to start buying the new combatant in 2023, so it seems a bit silly that they can't define the goal for something as basic as the general power architecture, but here we are.

At one point, IPS was to be ubiquitous. An efficient design solution for most of the new ship designs. Another way to simplify training and maintenance. In fact, Columbia-class will be using IPS. So the question is how confident should we be at this stage of IPS development and deployment? Is it meeting the design metrics for dependability, efficiency etc?

 

[Grey Havoc]

https://breakingdefense.com/2018/11/zumwalt-close-to-losing-gun-but-open-to-ew-and-directed-energy/

 

[jsport]

https://breakingdefense.com/2018/11/zumwalt-close-to-losing-gun-but-open-to-ew-and-directed-energy/

All the more reason to rethink what a next generation combatant should be (what does frigate, destroyer, cruiser really mean, antiquated concepts).

A no gun ship is nearly defenseless and useless. Even the Arsenal Ship had a VGAS as it turns out. Future projectile/UAs threats will have various Laser defeat system/tactics only PBWs w/ KE like effects will defeat threats .

 

[Foo Fighter]

Perhaps changing role will be more of a fit for rhe type. As a replacement for the Tico's, they make more sense imho. Wasted in the intended role.

 

[sferrin]

They should bite the bullet and finish developing the AGS and ammo for it. It's not as though we'll never need a gun for a surface combatant in the future. And continuing with the Zumwalt hull is so obvious that it shouldn't need to be said.

 

[seruriermarshal]

LYNDON B JOHNSON DDG1002, 3rd and last ship of the DDG1000 Zumwalt class, was launched yesterday (9 Dec) at General Dynamics Bath Iron Works in Bath ME

 

[sferrin]

That sucks. This really is the ship they should be using for the Tico replacement.

 

[bring_it_on]

They haven't yet decided on what the large surface ship would be so there is still a possibility.

 

[sferrin]

They haven't yet decided on what the large surface ship would be so there is still a possibility.

Remove the aft gun and replace it with either Mk41 cells, or something more versitile like the Northrop Grumman Modular Launch System, swap out the radars for something more capable, and you're there for Flight I.

 

[Foo Fighter]

Whatever they do, perhaps they can decide soon and save some money from the budget a little ways down the line. The DDG1000 does make a very good case for the Ticonderoga class. If they get of their seats they may even be able to keep the yards current and able to go.

 

[sferrin]

Whatever they do, perhaps they can decide soon and save some money from the budget a little ways down the line. The DDG1000 does make a very good case for the Ticonderoga class. If they get of their seats they may even be able to keep the yards current and able to go.

Hell the line ALREADY exists. How much is it going to cost, in time and money, to design a completely new ship, tool up the line, etc. etc. etc. just to end up with something likely inferior to the Zumwalt?

 

[Foo Fighter]

Yes, I agree, logic fails me with people like those in power.

 

[seruriermarshal]

DDG-1002

 

[phil gollin]

.

Have they decided what is going to replace the space where the two redundant guns are in the present design ?

.