Boeing family of JDAMs

Ainen said:
Penetrating to invasion beaches (or attacking the invasion fleet on route) is quite apparent for the opponent, so probably it will have redundant levels of ASW.
Experience of submarines interfering with landings, in this case, is pretty disappointing - there is iirc no single case in history where subs worked against a significant landing. Dutch and Germans tried it.
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I expect the USN to wolfpack about 8 subs in on day 1 of that fight, specifically to hunt ASW escorts.


Ainen said:
Thus i guess topic of this topic - and will its carriers get a chance to get close enough to, say, mine the invasion beach, - is realistically far more relevant than subs.
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Yes and no. The wicked idea I had was the Rapid Dragon version, rolling 45 JDAM-ER Quickstrike mines out in a single drop of 90+klbs.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Yes, those would be high priority targets. Submariners aren't stupid, just crazy. But once those are gone (3 subs should do the trick), then it's time for the big stuff.
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I have serious doubts about the USN's ability to operate its SSNs in the shallow water of the straight given the prolific number of naval and militia ships likely screening any landing effort and the density of mine laying the PRC could bring to bear if it chose to.
 
Ainen said:
Penetrating to invasion beaches (or attacking the invasion fleet on route) is quite apparent for the opponent, so probably it will have redundant levels of ASW.
Experience of submarines interfering with landings, in this case, is pretty disappointing - there is iirc no single case in history where subs worked against a significant landing. Dutch and Germans tried it.

Thus i guess topic of this topic - and will its carriers get a chance to get close enough to, say, mine the invasion beach, - is realistically far more relevant than subs.
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It seems unlikely to me that any aircraft will be capable of significantly mining the Taiwan straight during a conflict except maybe the B-2. Chinese air superiority over the area is assured and it would probably take high dozens to hundreds of mines to have an impact on a landing beach. The addition of JDAM kits to the Quickstrike series of mines has made them capable of some stand off along with much more rapid high altitude emplacement. But it is still not something that could likely be done in contested airspace, let alone an opponent controlled one.
 
timmymagic said:
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I actually did read that when it came out, but I've heard nothing on the subject since 2021. Not sure what that says about the viability.
 
Josh_TN said:
I have serious doubts about the USN's ability to operate its SSNs in the shallow water of the straight given the prolific number of naval and militia ships likely screening any landing effort and the density of mine laying the PRC could bring to bear if it chose to.
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The USN operated there in WW2, in fleet boats that were almost the same length. The USN operates there now.

It will really come down to just how good the Chinese ASW effort is, versus how sneaky the US SSNs are. China has not been doing serious ASW that has been publicly reported.
 
Josh_TN said:
It seems unlikely to me that any aircraft will be capable of significantly mining the Taiwan straight during a conflict except maybe the B-2. Chinese air superiority over the area is assured and it would probably take high dozens to hundreds of mines to have an impact on a landing beach. The addition of JDAM kits to the Quickstrike series of mines has made them capable of some stand off along with much more rapid high altitude emplacement. But it is still not something that could likely be done in contested airspace, let alone an opponent controlled one.
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I was thinking C-17 flights dropping quickstrikes en masse before the balloon goes up.
 
Scott Kenny said:
The USN operated there in WW2, in fleet boats that were almost the same length. The USN operates there now.

It will really come down to just how good the Chinese ASW effort is, versus how sneaky the US SSNs are. China has not been doing serious ASW that has been publicly reported.
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I think the shallow water would make operating there incredibly risky. Detection at those limited depths could be a huge issue if the PRC has any kind of surprise non acoustic capability (hyperspectral, green laser, MAD, etc). Even old school induction loops could be effective. If nothing else, bottom mines could be laid anywhere across the entire length and depth of the straight. That is how I would handle it - thousands of mines on both ends with a few heavily screened channels for friendly navigation. The militia fishing boats train to deploy mines; they aren't especially capable in that regard but there are hundreds of them to employ in the effort. Given the number of possible deployment platforms, the PRC could probably establish sufficient mine fields almost overnight.
 
Scott Kenny said:
I was thinking C-17 flights dropping quickstrikes en masse before the balloon goes up.
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That would probably require the mines to have fuses that could be remotely activated, for legal reasons. Otherwise it is an act of war by itself and there would be no way to limit the mines from engaging targets immediately, outside time delayed activation. There would be no going back once they were seeded.

Though remote activation of the Quickstrike doesn't seem like a major technological hurdle. The new clandestinely deployed mines are supposedly recycled mk37 warheads mated to a mk72 TDD for Inc 1, and budget documents indicate that Inc 2 would allow remote activation (presumably acoustic modem). If the CDM Incr2 TDD could be back fit to the Mk80 series bomb bodies, then you would have a system that could be deployed en mas by cargo aircraft in a time of crisis and remain dormant until needed. But such a system is not deployed yet, far as I know.
 
timmymagic said:
www.thedrive.com

Air Force Finds New Need For Low-Cost Engine Tech Used On Nazi Buzz Bombs

A startup is reviving the powerplant used in the V-1 flying bomb for use in an air-launched decoy, and possibly more.
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Wave Engine Corp - Jet propulsion like never before

At Wave Engine Corp, we develop and produce next-generation wave engine propulsion systems We bring together leading scientific experts, multi-disciplinary engineering teams, master craftsmen and the most skilful test pilots to develop and deploy wave engine technologies for demanding real-world...
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VTOL with pulse jets?! Great potential for a flying car.
Your straight pipes V8 neighbor will surely deem you as his/her favorite... for a kill.
 
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Maro.Kyo said:
Reminder that this is a JDAM thread not some random ASW/Wolfpack/"how much explosive it takes to sink a large ship" thread
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Apolgies, I get carried away. I'll refrain from futher non JDAM posts.

Perhaps we might start a separate topic concerning mining operations.
 
Josh_TN said:
Apolgies, I get carried away. I'll refrain from futher non JDAM posts.

Perhaps we might start a separate topic concerning mining operations.
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No need for any apologies. I just like keeping threads on track/topic and that was just a reminder.
 
Josh_TN said:
Would a modern day pulsejet be at all practical or cost effective in this role? It seems to me it would remove a lot of complexity and moving parts relative to a turbojet, despite the numerous other disadvantages. Reducing the cost in both money and time of production would be a key enabler in low cost stand off weapons.
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The US is working on something better called pulse detonation engines.
 
Josh_TN said:
I believe it is a radar /EO dual node seeker on top of the standard INS/GPS guidance.
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Correct.

TomcatViP said:
Submarine datalink to a/c?
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There's no direct relationship between Quicksink and submarines other than the under-the-keel detonation that Quicksink seems to be using.

There are certainly ways for subs to pass general target location data about ships that could be used to target Quicksink, or any other weapon. But nothing about Quicksink depends on a submarine in the area.
 
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AIR FORCE

Scientific Applications and Research Associates Inc., Cypress, California, was awarded a $23,554,341 firm-fixed-price and cost-plus-fixed-fee, undefinitized contract for the acquisition of Home-on GPS Jam seekers. This contract provides for the integration of the extended range seekers into existing Joint Direct Attack Munition wing kits. Work will be performed at Cypress, California, and St. Louis, Missouri, and is expected to be completed by Oct. 1, 2025. This contract involves Foreign Military Sales to Ukraine. This contract was a sole source Small Business Innovation Research Phase III acquisition. Fiscal 2023 operation and maintenance funds in the amount of $9,961,706 are being obligated at time of award. The Air Force Life Cycle Management Center, Hill Air Force Base, Utah, is the contracting activity (FA8213-24-C-0017).
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www.twz.com

JDAM-ER Winged Bombs With Seekers That Home In On GPS Jammers Headed To Ukraine

Plans to give Ukraine JDAM-ERs with new seekers come as Western precision-guided munitions are reportedly suffering from Russian GPS jamming.
www.twz.com www.twz.com
 
aonestudio said:
www.defense.gov

Contracts for May 3, 2024

Today's Defense Department contracts valued at $7.5 million or more are now live on Defense.gov.
www.defense.gov

www.twz.com

JDAM-ER Winged Bombs With Seekers That Home In On GPS Jammers Headed To Ukraine

Plans to give Ukraine JDAM-ERs with new seekers come as Western precision-guided munitions are reportedly suffering from Russian GPS jamming.
www.twz.com www.twz.com
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Kinda surprised that it took this long to get Home-on-GPS-jamming chips installed. GPS has been around for 40 years, I think GPS jamming has been around for 30.
 
I actually have never heard of a HOJ seeker for JDAM before. I cannot imagine this is a product that never existed before that was suddenly built for Ukraine?
 
Defense Updates has just uploaded a video concerning the JDAM-ER being equipped with HOJ seekers to home in on Russian anti-GPS jammers:


It is no secret that Russian electronic jamming is impacting the effectiveness of several Western-supplied GPS-guided munitions including JDAMs.In response to this, the U.S. Air Force has taken a major step.
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U.S. Air Force Life Cycle Management Center (AFLCMC) has awarded a contract to Scientific Applications and Research Associates Inc. for the acquisition and integration of add-on seekers designed to enable JDAM-ER bombs to counter GPS jamming.
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The addition of these seekers will also enable the JDAM -ER (extended Range) bombs to home-in on the GPS jammers.
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In this video, Defense Updates analyzes how JDAM-ER may soon be able to destroy Russian EW systems that are jamming it ?
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#defenseupdates #jdam #ukrainerussiawar
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Chapters:
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00:11 INTRODUCTION
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01:48 JDAM OVERVIEW
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04:25 JDAM JAMMING
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06:47 COUNTERING JAMMING
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07:33 ANALYSIS
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I'd say that the Russian operators of these anti-GPS jammers are in for a lethal surprise in the near future (I gather that the jammers themselves are very expensive and difficult to replace).
 
NMaude said:
I'd say that the Russian operators of these anti-GPS jammers are in for a lethal surprise in the near future (I gather that the jammers themselves are very expensive and difficult to replace).
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Not sure why they should be -- it's really just a Software-Designed Radio and an antenna. We have had cases of truckers in the US using GPS jammers to defeat the company vehicle tracking and coincidentally screwing with air traffic control. The jammers they used were super-cheap.

Feds arrest rogue trucker after GPS jamming borks New Jersey airport test

FCC promises crackdown on jammer use
www.theregister.com www.theregister.com

Spoofing is probably more expensive than simple noise jamming, but not incredibly complicated.
 
You can cobble together a GPS jammer for about $50 and cover half a kilometer. How much does a JDAM cost?
 
TomS said:
The jammers they used were super-cheap.
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They are also low powered and short ranged.

Jamming commercial GPS is not difficult but it does require a lot of power to cover any significant distance.

Jamming and spoofing military GPS is much more difficult. And many military systems that use GPS do not rely on it exclusively. For example, JDAM uses GPS and INS together, making GPS jamming much less effective.

If you were using a lot of commercial GPS systems jamming would be a more significant threat.
 
_Del_ said:
You can cobble together a GPS jammer for about $50 and cover half a kilometer. How much does a JDAM cost?
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Half a kilometer will not change the trajectory of a bomb or missile significantly. It would be effective against slow moving drones.
 
HOJ GPS in a JDAM is a cheap way of engaging active wide area GPS denial equipment. It may or may not be cost effective to employ in some situations, based on the effectiveness of the jamming and the risk to the launch platform. Having the option and not using it when it is not tactically sound is still an improvement over not having the option.
 
TomS said:
Not sure why they should be -- it's really just a Software-Designed Radio and an antenna. We have had cases of truckers in the US using GPS jammers to defeat the company vehicle tracking and coincidentally screwing with air traffic control. The jammers they used were super-cheap.

Feds arrest rogue trucker after GPS jamming borks New Jersey airport test

FCC promises crackdown on jammer use
www.theregister.com www.theregister.com

Spoofing is probably more expensive than simple noise jamming, but not incredibly complicated.
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He's right actually, I've tracked the costs of various Russian EW complexes and they range from about $5m to $40m or thereabouts. If you Google some of the items listed in this thread, you'll see.

theregister, newsweek, bulgarianmilitary and many others are rogue fake news sites based on my experience from the last 2 years.
 

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