Mirage F1 projects

I appreciate that the Mirage F1 M53 first flew in 1974, but does anyone know when Dassault officially started the F1 M53 program?

As a side note to my question, on researching the F1 M53, I've found the following snippets:
- Mirage F1 M53, although it's external appearance was generally the same as that of the Mirage F1C, the fuselage itself was stretched by 23 centimeters (9 inches) and empty weight increased by a little over 8%.
- slightly larger air intakes for a mass flow increased from 72 to 84kg/sec (158 to 185 pounds/sec).

Regards
Pioneer
 
Five years (1969 - 1974). This explains by the fact that at the time the M53 and the flying testbed around it were NOT high on the list of the Armée de l'Air priorities.
Why ?
- the Mirage F1 with ATAR was the real deal. IOC spring 1973 at Reims air base.
- the Jaguar was sucking most of the budget, also IOC early 1973
- also the tactical nukes, on the same Jaguar and the older Mirage IIIEs.

M53 was for the twin engine heavy fighter the AdA fought for, but could never really afford (before the F-18-size Rafale: Phantoms, F-111s and F-15s were always unaffordable to France limited resources): G8 operational variant (that never was), then ACF from May 1972.

It was the beginnings of ACF that kicked again the M53 to the top of the priority list. The AdA then grundingly funded a F1 flying testbed for it, then conceded that half of its massive F1 order (they got 246 in the end, 20 years down the road) could be re-ordered as F1-M53s. Even then, that move was reluctant as the ACF was much more exciting in their eyes.
The F1-M53 now a low end to the ACF could actually become a threat to it as the 1973 oil shock wrecked the french economy and accordingly, the objective of "3% of the GDP" De Gaulle once wanted for the military budget.
The AdA F1-M53s were there to help exports orders - among them Belgium, in what was NOT YET the deal of the century: 1972-73. The

Bottom line: AdA told the French government they did not really wanted the F1-M53 in the first place and that foreign customers would have to help paying the additional cost burden.

During the year 1973 Dassault frantically pushed a F1-M53 / Alphajet / Mercure-for-SABENA package to the Belgian government, but they were reluctant and had good reasons to be: the 1967 Mirage V deal had triggered a colossal bribery scandal comparable to Lockheed Starfighter corrupt bargains.

So the package went nowhere (minus the Alphajets, SABENA prefered Boeing 727 or 737, can't remember), the Belgian government changed during the winter 1973-74 and then the Netherlands stepped in, told Dassault to go fuck itself and kickstarted the Deal of the Century. During that time the YF-16 had flown, and that was turning point in LWF designs: the next generation was there. The F1-M53 could not compete and was canned, so was the ACF, only to be replaced by a mostly similar 4000 - 2000 strategy and proposal. Which was reversed by President Giscard late 1975: 2000 for the AdA, 4000 paid by export customers - Iraq and the Saudis, but Iran, F-15s and Tornados decided otherwise.
 
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I always thought that the proper "F1-M53" design would have been carrier-capable, to replace both the Crusaders and Super Etendards.

Sort of a French "single-engine Hornet".
 
M- 53 was designed for a higher spec fighter than what the F-1 could have ever dreamed to be. Hence the late retrofit.

From Wiki:
was originally called the Super Atar 9K50 and was designed for sustained flight at Mach 2.5.
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BlackBat242 said:
I always thought that the proper "F1-M53" design would have been carrier-capable, to replace both the Crusaders and Super Etendards.
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The French Navy showed interest about the Mirage F1 and tested prototype 03 in November 1971.
Dassault already had started an F1 "navalisé" project in September 1971 and selected the M53-2 engine for it.

"Le Mirage F1. Vol I" par M Liébert & S Buyck. Chapitre 4. Pg 91
 
A naval F1-M53 has not left a corner of my mind since 2006 at least. Liébert and Buyck did a stupendous job detailing the varied proposals for it. Between 1970 and January 1973 (when the Super Etendard decision was carved in granite with no possible coming back) it almost happened a few times.

Still, Liébert and Buyck show it did not happened because it didn't filled the Aéronavale interception and loitering requirements. Would have needed more than 25 m2 of wing area (big wing, like the Jaguar M - the irony), and more thrust than the anemic M53-2 8500 kg something. Only some kind of Mirage G with VG and a massive TF306E with 10300 kg of thrust could get close. A pocket Tomcat for the Clems - not easy to pull out.

Something I took a long time to understand was that SNECMA (also) took a very long time to pull out the M53-P2 major thrust upgrade - not before the Mirage 2000 D/N became a necessity: low level flight, two-seat, dragging an ASMP...

Bottom line: in the 1970's the "P2 thrust upgrade" that is, going beyond 9000 kg of AB thrust, could not be done without a larger fan hence a larger engine. The P2 in the 1980's broke that deadlock.

So in the 1970's were two different M53s. One below 9000 kg thrust (M53-2, M53-5) that fit within a Mirage F1 rear end... as done in 1974.

But whatever M53 trying to break the 9000 kg thrust treshold, before the P2, needed larger fans and thus wouldn't fit a F1 rump. No idea whether the 1975 Mirage 2000 engine bay was designed for the lower thrust M53s, I think it must have and that made the P2 non-larger thrust upgrade a necessity.

SNECMA took a long time mastering the art of efficient military turbofans. TF306 was a good step in the right direction, but the real deal was CFM56: snatching the F101 core via the civilian market.

Nixon was no idiot, he was in 1971 reluctant to let this happen, but big commercial potential led him to override his concerns.

René Ravaud was essential there, to get SNECMA out of these deadlocks.

René Ravaud — Wikipédia

fr.wikipedia.org fr.wikipedia.org
 
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Below is from a House hearing in June 1971.

"... the Dassault Co. has invited us to participate with them in a program that would contemplate reengining the aircraft with a J79 GE engine which would make it a much more capable airplane.

We have chosen not to do that he has subsequently arranged with the Boeing Co. to license to them, if they choose to pick this up, the opportunity to develop a J79-engined version of the Mirage F1. "


71a.PNG
 
Hi! Mirage F1 prototypes N°02 and N°04.
Please confirm the number on the rudder.

www.digitalcombatsimulator.com

Mirage F1 prototypes N°02 and N°04

These skins represent prototypes N°02 and 04 of the Dassault Mirage F1.
www.digitalcombatsimulator.com www.digitalcombatsimulator.com
 

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We know that swapping the Atar for the J79 inside the Mirage V was no picnic - the Kfir ultimately needed a small cooling intake at the base of the fin. What is interesting is that, both being born the same year 1967, the Mirage V and the Mirage F1 shared the same "rump" if not fuselage, up to the radome.
So rolling a J79 inside a Mirage F1 in place of an Atar should run into the exact same difficulties.
Starting from basic 3-views It would be pretty easy to use MS Paint to put a Kfir rear fuselage on a Mirage F1, tailfin included.
The good news is that the J79 made the Mirage V a hot rod. The "F-21s" Kfir agressors were used to simulate MiG-23s for two reasons a) they accelerated like bats outta hell and b) they had very limited manoeuverability.
 
GTX said:
It would be interesting to know which version of the J79 they were considering. Generally while the J79 has higher thrust, it is also a heavier engine which may negate many performance benefits.
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It was also a much hotter engine so would have required quite a bit of extra mass in heat shielding and drag through cooling air intakes ala Kfir.
 
Archibald said:
We know that swapping the Atar for the J79 inside the Mirage V was no picnic - the Kfir ultimately needed a small cooling intake at the base of the fin. What is interesting is that, both being born the same year 1967, the Mirage V and the Mirage F1 shared the same "rump" if not fuselage, up to the radome.
So rolling a J79 inside a Mirage F1 in place of an Atar should run into the exact same difficulties.
Starting from basic 3-views It would be pretty easy to use MS Paint to put a Kfir rear fuselage on a Mirage F1, tailfin included.
The good news is that the J79 made the Mirage V a hot rod. The "F-21s" Kfir agressors were used to simulate MiG-23s for two reasons a) they accelerated like bats outta hell and b) they had very limited manoeuverability.
Click to expand...
The later, production representative F1, has a very different fuselage structure to the Mirage III and 5. But in general - similar engine type so likely similar problems to solve.
 
As stated here, and on other threads, the J79 mated to the Mirage III airframe to create the Kfir was not a perfect match made in heaven.
The Israelis operated the Mirage IIIC, with its earlier edition, lower thrust ATAR 09.
It was for this reason, as well as US support and spares/maintenance compatibility with the F4 engines that the J79 was primarily selected IMHO.

The Mirage F1 came with the more powerful ATAR 09K50, so whilst the later J79's offered a bit more thrust, it was a heavier, hotter engine, needing additional heat protection and cooling scoops.

Compare the Cheetah C with 09K50 and the Kfir C10.
The Cheetah has a far more streamlined, aerodynamically uncluttered mid/rear fuselage and engine installation.

Perhaps the F1 might have benefitted a bit better than the Mirage III airframe, but I'm unsure the J79 over the 09K50 would have been really worth it.
 
When they did put the long nose on the F1-01? Must be before the crash of course.
Makes you wonder why they didn't built more than one prototype in the first place.
 
Because the F1 was a single-prototype private venture at a time the AdA was unable to chose between the larger, TF306 powered F2 (two seat strike fighter) and F3 (single seat interceptor). The F1 flew late December 1966, the F2 had flown in June but with France partially out of NATO air defense umbrella the requirement shifted: to the F3.
Which wasn't cancelled until April 1967. The month before the F1-01 crashed. The French Government however had already endorsed the F1 and would not change their minds.
 

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As nice of upgrade as M53 was to the F1, the Mirage 2000 base was good enough in sustained turn rate and F1-M53 offered really no advantages. Seems like F1 needed major structural upgrades to get it up to the Mirage 2000 capability which would have been too expensive to compete with F-16 and MiG-29 for orders in that time period.

I'm disappointed they didn't look at M88 for a lighter and cheaper F1 export model.
 
The prototype Mirage F1 looks so "POSH" (to me) with it's Mirage III-style nose cone. I did toy with the prospect of making this in 1/48 scale......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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Hi Super Mirage F1!

「HISTORY
The story of this plane began in 2004 when AEROSUD(South Africa) purchased the remaining South African Mirage F1AZs. The intent was to upgrade them to remain relevant in the skies of the 2000s. To achieve this, a collaboration was established with Marvotech, which provided a new engine, updated avionics, and new armament. Two Mirages underwent this modification. However, a deal made by the South African government regarding the procurement of Gripens led to the project’s termination. According to AFP, these two planes participated in Ghana’s independence celebrations in 2008, marking their last public demonstration.

PERFORMANCE
The Super Mirage F1 was equipped with the SMR 95, a modified version of the RD-33, famously used in the MiG-29. This engine can produce up to 50.0 kN (11,230 lbf) dry thrust and 81.3 kN (18,285 lbf) with afterburner. Tests revealed that this new engine provided the F1 with 16% more thrust than the older Atar. At 15,000 ft (4.7 km) with two AA missiles, a full gun, and half the maximum fuel, the plane demonstrated improved turning capabilities and acceleration. The new HUD integrates an in-built helmet visor, allowing pilots to lock onto a target with the missile simply by looking at it.」

ARMAMENT

image



forum.warthunder.com

super mirage F1 the dart aiming to pierce the sun​

 
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「The first of the three preproduction machines, marked "Super Mirage F1", performed its initial flight on 20 March 1968, with Jean-Marie Saget at the controls. The second took to the air on 18 September 1969, with the third following on 17 June 1970. The first preproduction machine now resides in the Musee de l'Air at Le Bourget.」

Strange mark!
 
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blackkite said:
Hi Super Mirage F1!

「HISTORY
The story of this plane began in 2004 when AEROSUD(South Africa) purchased the remaining South African Mirage F1AZs. The intent was to upgrade them to remain relevant in the skies of the 2000s. To achieve this, a collaboration was established with Marvotech, which provided a new engine, updated avionics, and new armament. Two Mirages underwent this modification. However, a deal made by the South African government regarding the procurement of Gripens led to the project’s termination. According to AFP, these two planes participated in Ghana’s independence celebrations in 2008, marking their last public demonstration.

PERFORMANCE
The Super Mirage F1 was equipped with the SMR 95, a modified version of the RD-33, famously used in the MiG-29. This engine can produce up to 50.0 kN (11,230 lbf) dry thrust and 81.3 kN (18,285 lbf) with afterburner. Tests revealed that this new engine provided the F1 with 16% more thrust than the older Atar. At 15,000 ft (4.7 km) with two AA missiles, a full gun, and half the maximum fuel, the plane demonstrated improved turning capabilities and acceleration. The new HUD integrates an in-built helmet visor, allowing pilots to lock onto a target with the missile simply by looking at it.」

ARMAMENT

image



forum.warthunder.com

super mirage F1 the dart aiming to pierce the sun​

Click to expand...
The project started under extreme secrecy in 1989 and became public in 1994. Not in 2004. Aerosud was a pseudo-Atlas Aircraft company to do the work clandestinely in the Soviet Union and not be affiliated with the South African State. Only one Mirage F1 - tail number 216 - was conveted. The other aircraft was a Cheetah D2. Both received no avionic upgrades. There was a avionics upgrade for the F1 but that was part of a whoally seperate project although they were marketed together later.

The SMR was a big improvement over the Atar only when in its max power setting which resulted in a very short service life. Soviet era designs were different to Western ones so they made their engines powerful but cheaply and made easy engine changes part of the aircraft design. Afterall, why bother with expensive good quality if the aircraft will last minutes in war? Cheaper allows for a larger fleet to overwhelm the west.
The west designed powerful but expensive long lasting engines for peace time ops. This was already a sticking point for the SAAF and the adoption of the re-engined Mirage/Cheetah. Detuning the engine for a longer service life made it a worse engine performing engine-airframe combo than the Atar in the aircraft. The fuselages designed around the Atar were also poorly suited to the new Russian engine without the correct access panels to do routine inspections so the engine would have had to be pulled regularly leaving the aircraft unavailable.

The Cheetah last flew in 1995 and I have the F1 as around 2005/6. It was transfered to the SAAF museum at that point along with another F1 tail number 233. They would certainly not have flown at Ghana's Independance celebrations.
 
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I was about to post similar.
The re-engining project was begun 15 years earlier, and was a Cold War project.
This was also tied in to various projects to assimilate technology in acquiring turbofan technology to the follow on Carver.
There is no doubt in my mind that a solution with an RD33, even modified, as a final option was not optimal, and not really wanted. For many reasons, some of which Black Mamba mentions.
I have always looked at this project as a technology acquisition process, or a stepping stone towards an indigenous solution in case off-the-shelf options were not feasible.

I would still be very interested to see further info on the various modifications looked at for the South African fleet of Mirage F1 airframes.
These were, on top of the known re-engining and avionics upgrades, LERX, modified vertical fin base (ala F16) and Cheetah C radar/nose.
 
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@blackkite "Super Mirage ---" has no meaning whatsoever, whether used by Dassault or someone else. Dassault Falcon / Mirage / Mystere / Etendard designation system was already a mess, and foreign customers only made it worse.

At least Rafale solved that issue. Just Rafale + block number : F1, F2, F3, F4.
 
BLACK_MAMBA said:
Only one Mirage F1 - tail number 216 - was conveted. The other aircraft was a Cheetah D2.
(....)
The Cheetah last flew in 1995 and I have the F1 as around 2005/6. It was transfered to the SAAF museum at that point along with another F1 tail number 233. They would certainly not have flown at Ghana's Independance celebrations.
Click to expand...
So you confirm that there was an error in this article ?


bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com

Weekend Wings #41: South Africa's "Franken-Mirages", Part 3 of 3

This is the third and final article of a series describing the aircraft and systems developed by and for the South African Air Force (SAAF) ...
bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com

More SMR-95 engines were sent to South Africa, where one was fitted to a second Mirage F1, and another to a Cheetah D for test purposes.
Click to expand...
 

The South African Air Force

Privately run, unofficial website on the South African Air Force. It is maintained by myself during my (limited) spare time so please read the Disclaimer. I hope you enjoy the experience and visit again soon. All suggestions are welcome - Dean Wingrin
www.saairforce.co.za
「Description:
Single-seat strike and multi-role fighter. It is a simplified attack version with extra fuel in place of radar and some other all-weather avionics.

The South African Air Force recognized the advantages of a simplified version of the Mirafe F1CZ for day visual attack missions. The resulting Dassault-Breguet Mirage F1AZ is visually distinguished by having a slender conical nose, resulting from removal of the large Cyrano IVM radar. In its place is the ESD Aïda II ranging radar and a laser-ranger, with a large instrument boom housing the pitot/static heads attached on the underside of the nose. The main avionics racking is moved from behind the cockpit to the nose, making room for an extra fuselage tank. Other additions are a Doppler radar and a retractable refueling probe. South Africa received 32 aircraft for service with No. 1 Sqn.

The aircraft were withdrawn from service in 1997.

Ironically, it was the F1AZ's usefulness that indirectly resulted in its retirement. In ther late 1980's, the initial plan was for the F1AZ to be upgraded after the Cheetah program was finished because the SAAF couldn't take the risk taking it's fleet of F1AZ's out of the front line without a similarly cabable aircraft to take their place, which couldn't exist untill the Cheetah C. However, once the Cheetah upgrade was completed (mid-1990's), the budget had been slashed and there was no longer sufficient funding. Faced with mounting operational costs, a tiny budget adn what amounted to a new type in service, the SAAF did the logical thing and retired the F1AZ's to focus the remaining funding on the Cheetah C and D.」
 
Deltafan said:
So you confirm that there was an error in this article ?


bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com

Weekend Wings #41: South Africa's "Franken-Mirages", Part 3 of 3

This is the third and final article of a series describing the aircraft and systems developed by and for the South African Air Force (SAAF) ...
bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com
Click to expand...
I do yes. Only one AZ - tail number 216 - was converted and flew. No idea where the story of a second one could originate? They did use a F1CZ tail number 214 during the project. It was sent to Russian for engine integration purposes although Atlas stripped out all the internals and only sent the bare airframe. It was thus useless as they exactly needed the internals for all the integration work between the SMR-95, the new gearbox and the rest of the Mirage's systems.

Not sure that article has all the facts correct... Lots of hearsay. Atlas and Armscor were directly involved in the whole re-engining process. As Kaiserbill notes - South Africa were desperate to get their hands on a modern turbofan and here was a golden oppertunity...
Aerosud was not a bright spark go it alone idea as noted in the article but a pseudo-Atlas team who needed to be seen operating independently from Atlas. The team in Russia still reported regularly back to their SA counterparts at Atlas, the SAAF and Armscor on their progress and the rebuilding work of the two aircraft types to take the new engines was done by Atlas in SA.
 
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