Extraterrestrials: Hope or Threat

[Grey Havoc]

Humans communicating with aliens would be 'like ants trying to talk to people'

Experts from a new BBC film are convinced our species would be mentally inferior

www.telegraph.co.uk

A trifle pessimistic perhaps.

 

[steelpillow]

Humans communicating with aliens would be 'like ants trying to talk to people'

Experts from a new BBC film are convinced our species would be mentally inferior

www.telegraph.co.uk

A trifle pessimistic perhaps.

Probably the opposite, though it depends what you regards as bad news; aliens as dumbass as Trump, Putin and Xi Jinping but with better weapons tech than us, or aliens so smart they notice us only enough not to tread on us.

Speaking of better tech, we have been watching batshit-crazy UFO stuff on one channel because its "ancient aliens" meme actually has some interesting archaeology stitched in. But all those crashed UFOs and ancient worship going back thousands of years? We are positing an advanced interstellar civilisation making itself known to us while simultaneously keeping itself secret from us. The primitive, low-tech ancients worshipped them as Gods, while today's advanced tech-savvy world is by contrast so delicate and unsophisticated they dare not even let us know they are here in case it freaks us out. They are thinly stretched here, doing little more than mutate and monitor a handful of us, yet their runabout craft still crash regularly, lord knows how many they must have lost with all hands in the last five thousand years or so, it's a wonder any of them are left alive. Then, you'd think that even fifty years would be enough to improve the reliability of their tech so they stopped crashing, never mind five millennia. But no, if anything the otherwise-inexplicable wreckage is coming thicker and faster than ever. Talk about incompetent! Still, at least they have something in common after all with the people who investigate them.

 

[airman]

I think that extraterrestrial civilitations are too distant to be a threat. Can we suppose to find in future extraterrestrial bacteria in Mars or other planet or moon of Jupiter.

 

[sferrin]

Humans communicating with aliens would be 'like ants trying to talk to people'

Experts from a new BBC film are convinced our species would be mentally inferior

www.telegraph.co.uk

A trifle pessimistic perhaps.

Probably the opposite, though it depends what you regards as bad news; aliens as dumbass as Trump, Putin and Xi Jinping but with better weapons tech than us, or aliens so smart they notice us only enough not to tread on us.

Speaking of better tech, we have been watching batshit-crazy UFO stuff on one channel because its "ancient aliens" meme actually has some interesting archaeology stitched in. But all those crashed UFOs and ancient worship going back thousands of years? We are positing an advanced interstellar civilisation making itself known to us while simultaneously keeping itself secret from us. The primitive, low-tech ancients worshipped them as Gods, while today's advanced tech-savvy world is by contrast so delicate and unsophisticated they dare not even let us know they are here in case it freaks us out. They are thinly stretched here, doing little more than mutate and monitor a handful of us, yet their runabout craft still crash regularly, lord knows how many they must have lost with all hands in the last five thousand years or so, it's a wonder any of them are left alive. Then, you'd think that even fifty years would be enough to improve the reliability of their tech so they stopped crashing, never mind five millennia. But no, if anything the otherwise-inexplicable wreckage is coming thicker and faster than ever. Talk about incompetent! Still, at least they have something in common after all with the people who investigate them.

View: https://open.spotify.com/episode/68t6BZRHenCslyLLaviW1H

 

[paralay]

,

 

[steelpillow]

Surprised nobody has mentioned the Dark Forest theory here yet. Like meeting a stranger in a dark forest, you have no idea whether they are aggressive or helpful, weak or strong. If they are stronger than you and aggressive, they will kill you. Whoever strikes first has the best chance of winning that round. So best not to wait and find out, strike first and lethally. Thanks to this logic, that is probably how they see you too.

So if we ever meet a superior alien civilisation, we will not know we have until it is too late. Equally, we should be developing SETI and interplanetary superweapons with all the resources of our civilisation we can muster.

Although the Dark Forest is fashionable at the moment, thanks to Liu Cixin's SF trilogy which expounds it, I do not buy the theory. Cixin's arguments appeal principally to Darwinian selection - survival of the fittest. His other core principle is that you cannot trust anybody. While this may be true in today's People's Republic, it is given the lie by the very Darwinian evolution he appeals to. Evolution has made it abundantly clear that cooperation pays, and that any healthy ecology is a balance of cooperation and competition. A Dark Forest of enemies is an empty, vulnerable forest. A forest full of trustworthy allies is a weakened and top-heavy forest, ripe for a fall. A forest with a mixed ecology of competing and cooperative associates is a healthy and vibrant one. When you first encounter a forest denizen, you do not stop to ask, "are they one of us?" and respond on that basis, you react to whether they are aggressive or benign and worry about their species afterwards. So it needs to be when you meet a strange civilisation.

I ask myself, is it a coincidence that the Dark Forest appears an excellent metaphor, if rather a shallow apologia, for the cold war and the behaviour of Cixin's own domestic People's Republic? Might it be much the same metaphor/apologia for free-market capitalism? Or both? We should not discuss either of these political extremes here, better to merely draw the parallels and save any opinionating for the wisdom of eternal intergalactic genocide.

 

[sferrin]

If we met an alien intelligence that was bent on destroying us I doubt we could do anymore to prevent it than the ant hill can defend against a can of Raid. They'd almost certainly be further ahead of us technologically than we are to lemurs. Teleoperate Xi,Biden, and Putin to launch all the nukes. Drop some gray goo. Drop a Thing on us. Or an asteroid. I suppose it would only depend on the desired end-state as to what approach they'd take from their recipe book.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Powerful Moscow witches, with whom I had a chance to communicate twenty years ago

Ummm...

 

[Orionblamblam]

If we met an alien intelligence that was bent on destroying us I doubt we could do anymore to prevent it than the ant hill can defend against a can of Raid. They'd almost certainly be further ahead of us technologically than we are to lemurs. Teleoperate Xi,Biden, and Putin to launch all the nukes. Drop some gray goo. Drop a Thing on us. Or an asteroid. I suppose it would only depend on the desired end-state as to what approach they'd take from their recipe book.

Realistically, if we are discovered by a more advanced species, they would be *vastly* beyond us. Not a mere hundred years or a thousand, but millions or potentially billions. And since we cannot imagine what a mere few hundred years could produce for us, a species that has a million years on us might as well be gods. Organians or Metrons if we are lucky; Q or Magic Man from Adventure Time if we are unlucky, Cthulhu or Yog Sothoth if we are desperately unlucky. Simply dropping rocks or Things on us would be beneath them. They might sweep the entire solar system aside without even noticing, or they might reduce our three dimensions to 2 (or to the square root of three), or randomize the speed of light or the universal constant of gravitation. They might collect all our "souls" and make an infinite copy of each and put each copy into a unique form of eternal torment because why wouldn't they. They might freeze all motion in perpetuity, but leave our consciousnesses running, forever locked in place, aware but unable to communicate or do *anything* till the heat death of the universe. They might dissolve the bonds that hold our cells together into solid forms, turning us all into blobs... immortal blobs that continue to think and feel and need to scream but have no mouths.

Simply killing us all is thinking small. Truly advanced aliens could do unimaginable things. And with alien motivations and ethics, not only *could* they, but *would* they.

 

[steelpillow]

If we met an alien intelligence that was bent on destroying us I doubt we could do anymore to prevent it than the ant hill can defend against a can of Raid. They'd almost certainly be further ahead of us technologically than we are to lemurs. Teleoperate Xi,Biden, and Putin to launch all the nukes. Drop some gray goo. Drop a Thing on us. Or an asteroid. I suppose it would only depend on the desired end-state as to what approach they'd take from their recipe book.

Realistically, if we are discovered by a more advanced species, they would be *vastly* beyond us. Not a mere hundred years or a thousand, but millions or potentially billions. And since we cannot imagine what a mere few hundred years could produce for us, a species that has a million years on us might as well be gods. Organians or Metrons if we are lucky; Q or Magic Man from Adventure Time if we are unlucky, Cthulhu or Yog Sothoth if we are desperately unlucky. Simply dropping rocks or Things on us would be beneath them. They might sweep the entire solar system aside without even noticing, or they might reduce our three dimensions to 2 (or to the square root of three), or randomize the speed of light or the universal constant of gravitation. They might collect all our "souls" and make an infinite copy of each and put each copy into a unique form of eternal torment because why wouldn't they. They might freeze all motion in perpetuity, but leave our consciousnesses running, forever locked in place, aware but unable to communicate or do *anything* till the heat death of the universe. They might dissolve the bonds that hold our cells together into solid forms, turning us all into blobs... immortal blobs that continue to think and feel and need to scream but have no mouths.

Simply killing us all is thinking small. Truly advanced aliens could do unimaginable things. And with alien motivations and ethics, not only *could* they, but *would* they.

They would probably be Boltzmann brains, beings brought into sudden existence by the spontaneous randomness of quantum physics. They would first surround themselves with survival mechanisms, then start looking around for something amusing to do. At least, I would regard that as the most probable scenario here.

 

[edwest4]

Powerful Moscow witches, with whom I had a chance to communicate twenty years ago

Ummm...
View attachment 686492

You just had to throw that in.

 

[Orionblamblam]

You just had to throw that in.

Honestly, the original comment was so outta left field that that was the only thing I could come up with that wouldn't get insta-banned.



I mean, sure, I can get behind aliens, but... witches?

 

[Justo Miranda]

In my opinion on our planet there are only two interesting things: the enormous variety of animals and plants and the behavior of an intelligent species, everything else is rocks. If ET has FTL technology and is interested in collecting life forms it will have to travel to Earth or send robots to collect DNA examples, but if it is only interested in studying our behavior it can use its FTL communication systems to connect to the internet without having to make the trip.

 

[Orionblamblam]

In my opinion on our planet there are only two interesting things: the enormous variety of animals and plants and the behavior of an intelligent species, everything else is rocks. If ET has FTL technology and is interested in collecting life forms it will have to travel to Earth or send robots to collect DNA examples, but if it is only interested in studying our behavior it can use its FTL communication systems to connect to the internet without having to make the trip.

If it is interested in the biology of Earth and had FTL communications that can tap into the internet, all they need to do is wait a little bit, and soon enough the gene sequences of every living species, and a few extinct ones, will be available free for the downloading. They'll be able - eventually - to tap into all of humanities research into life on Earth, including paleontology. *Far* easier than coming here and doing the research themselves. Interestingly, if they have this ability, it will be one of those rare cases where, at least for a while, it will be beneficial for mankind. It will be in the aliens interests to keep the internet not only alive, but growing; for all the archives to be scanned and made available. To make sure this happens, the aliens will be incentivized to help keep human civilization alive and thriving.

At least until the aliens have all the info they want.

So it would be in our best interests to:
1) Promise to make all human knowledge available online
2) But do it slowly and methodically, always keeping *something* in reserve
3) And constantly work to expand the human database. This would include not only space exploration, but space colonization, terraforming and the creation of brand-new species, with constant scientific studies and updates of all the new interesting things. Don't let the show get canceled.

 

[steelpillow]

In my opinion on our planet there are only two interesting things: the enormous variety of animals and plants and the behavior of an intelligent species, everything else is rocks. If ET has FTL technology and is interested in collecting life forms it will have to travel to Earth or send robots to collect DNA examples, but if it is only interested in studying our behavior it can use its FTL communication systems to connect to the internet without having to make the trip.

As a result the aliens are convinced that we are cats, the weird hairless monkeys are our pets, the male white cats discriminate against the black and female cats, and we are ruled by a freak hybrid monkey-cum-"cool"-cat called Elvis or Elon. The technology of the cooling system for Elvis/Elon is one of our best-kept secrets, but flared trousers appear to have something to do with it.

 

[Arjen]

Judging by present behaviour, the presence of an 'intelligent' species might be a bit of a stretch. Though my cat might want to put a word or two in.
There might be some very bright individuals around. As a species, humans can be remarkably stupid.

 

[Dreamfighter]

Judging by present behaviour, the presence of an 'intelligent' species might be a bit of a stretch. Though my cat might want to put a word or two in.

Maybe your cat and my (Sky)cat should have a conversation. It might benefit or destroy all of us on Earth, and the others 'out there' as well.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Judging by present behaviour, the presence of an 'intelligent' species might be a bit of a stretch. Though my cat might want to put a word or two in.
There might be some very bright individuals around. As a species, humans can be remarkably stupid.

As a species, humans have been more successful than any other known species, we have thrived uninterruptedly for half a million years, we have eliminated predators and diseases, we have learned to protect ourselves from the climate and we are very good at producing food and occupying new habitats to make them productive, the proof is that wild animals look for food in our garbage. Despite the misinformation created by the media, the reality of our species is that we are overcoming hunger, poverty and war. I don't think I would be able to eat my cat even in a case of extreme need, but I know what the cat would do in the same case. We are simply better.

 

[Justo Miranda]

In my opinion on our planet there are only two interesting things: the enormous variety of animals and plants and the behavior of an intelligent species, everything else is rocks. If ET has FTL technology and is interested in collecting life forms it will have to travel to Earth or send robots to collect DNA examples, but if it is only interested in studying our behavior it can use its FTL communication systems to connect to the internet without having to make the trip.

If it is interested in the biology of Earth and had FTL communications that can tap into the internet, all they need to do is wait a little bit, and soon enough the gene sequences of every living species, and a few extinct ones, will be available free for the downloading. They'll be able - eventually - to tap into all of humanities research into life on Earth, including paleontology. *Far* easier than coming here and doing the research themselves. Interestingly, if they have this ability, it will be one of those rare cases where, at least for a while, it will be beneficial for mankind. It will be in the aliens interests to keep the internet not only alive, but growing; for all the archives to be scanned and made available. To make sure this happens, the aliens will be incentivized to help keep human civilization alive and thriving.

At least until the aliens have all the info they want.

So it would be in our best interests to:
1) Promise to make all human knowledge available online
2) But do it slowly and methodically, always keeping *something* in reserve
3) And constantly work to expand the human database. This would include not only space exploration, but space colonization, terraforming and the creation of brand-new species, with constant scientific studies and updates of all the new interesting things. Don't let the show get canceled.

I like that theory. But it may not be enough for ET to know the outcome of our DNA research. Let's imagine that in the future the existence of a killer gene is discovered and researchers need DNA samples from famous killers of the past... But they can only access ink prints of fingerprints from police files. Then they would have to dig into some graves to get real genetic material.

 

[Archibald]

Though my cat might want to put a word or two in.

"And I, for one, hate our evil cats overlords "

"You maniacats ! You blew it up ! Ah, damn you! God damn you all cats to hell! "

 

[Justo Miranda]

Memes implanted by an external intelligence with the intention of directing the evolution of our species???

The ancient Greek philosophers Democritus of Abdera and Epicurus argued that countless inhabited worlds existed through an infinite cosmos. The philosophic question of intelligent life on other worlds was also debated during the middle ages by Albertus Magnus, Tomas de Aquino, Etienne Tempier and Nicholas of Cusa. During the Renaissance, Giordano Bruno and Johannes Kepler suggested that intelligent creatures might live in other planets.

Although they were the smartest men of their time, they all lacked a good reason to make such claims, but they were not charlatans or tricksters either, they simply got carried away by inspiration, a neurological event so complex and enigmatic that today's science is only beginning to understand.

The ancient Greek philosophers considered inspiration to be the enemy of reason and they believed it to be an emotional storm passed on to humans by mythical beings, the muses. Inspiration, intuition, and creativity are uncontrollable random phenomena that have always obsessed artists and scientists... Where do writers get their ideas from?

In some cases, the Aha! moment occurs when a state of low mental focus is interrupted by an unexpected event. According to legend, it was the fall of an apple that led Sir Isaac Newton to develop the law of universal gravitation in 1687. Newton himself attempted to rationalize the creative phenomenon by calling it inductive reasoning.

In the case of Archimedes of Syracusa (287-211 BC) it was an accident in his bathtub that inspired him to develop the physical law of buoyancy.

In 1815, the massive eruption of Mount Tambora caused severe climate abnormalities, cold summer temperatures, incessant rainfall, and reddish skies at twilight. The depressive atmosphere induced Mary Shelley to write the book 'Frankenstein, or the Modern Prometheus'.

The eruption of Krakatoa volcano in 1883 darkened the sky worldwide for years and produced red sunsets who inspired the paintings of William Ashcroft in 1888 and the painting of The Scream by Edvard Munch in 1893.

In 1865 Friedrich Kekulé discovered the ring shape of the benzene molecule while thinking of Ouroboros, an ancient symbol depicting a serpent eating its own tail.

Sometimes, after surviving a near-death-like experience subjects reach a higher level of consciousness. Perhaps that was the case with the Moses revelations or the reason why the Athenian statesman Solon (630-560 BC) attempted slavery abolition.

In September 1928 Alexander Fleming discovered that some culture plates in his laboratory were contaminated with fungi spores from another experiment. He had just returned from a vacation and, instead of getting angry he remarked, 'that's funny'. He got to work and from these fungi he created an antibiotic that saved millions of lives.

In June 1942, the Air Group Commander C. Wade McClusky, who led two dive bombers squadrons during the Battle of Midway, made the critical decision to continue the search for the Imperial Japanese Fleet although their planes were running low of fuel. Shortly after the Air Group managed to sink two Japanese aircraft carriers, this action ended with Japan's overwhelming aero naval superiority and changed the course of the war in the Pacific.

On May 25, 1961 President Kennedy addressed the Congress saying that ‘the US should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the Moon and returning him safely to the Earth’. They were only the words of a politician but, after his assassination, this promise became sacred and threatened to become a curse when calculations showed that the technology of the time was unable to manufacture the enormous size of the rocket needed for this mission. In his desperation to reach that goal, engineer Thomas Dolan experienced his Aha! moment and developed the concept of Lunar Orbit Rendezvous that led to the design of the Lunar Module Lander and the success of the Apollo program.

Today, creativity is the Holy Grail among the qualities most valued by political leaders and business leaders. Creativity is something that science defines as neural network by defect, a set of brain areas, located in the prefrontal and parietal cortex, which are only activated in a state of low mental focus when the subject trusts his instincts, without questioning them. This is something that Artificial Intelligence will never be able to do and that perhaps ensures our survival in a machine-driven future world.

During a press briefing in February 2018 Professor of Psychology Michael Varnum of the Arizona State University, presented its findings about how we might respond to the extraterrestrial life concept using a software program that qualifies emotions. In the study Varnum asked more than 500 participants about their own hypothetical reactions. Responses also showed significantly more positive than negative emotions.

It is disturbing to think that some of these moments of inspiration might have being not a natural phenomenon, but memes implanted by an external intelligence with the intention of directing the evolution of our species.

To educate us for altruism?

To train us for some dark reason?

Spock would say that is the most logical answer.

 

[steelpillow]

It is disturbing to think that some of these moments of inspiration might have being not a natural phenomenon, but memes implanted by an external intelligence with the intention of directing the evolution of our species.

To educate us for altruism?

To train us for some dark reason?

Spock would say that is the most logical answer.

I just find it mildly disturbing that so many folks take these wild fantasies seriously enough to be disturbed by them. Horror movies and serial-killer crime stories also bore me stiff. In fact, I think after seven pages I might sign off this thread now. Happy rambling, all!

 

[Hood]

Spielberg thought we'd only need an electronic organ to communicate with aliens so who knows...

There is no way of knowing what an alien will think, we hardly know what other species on this planet are 'thinking' or even really know what makes ourselves tick or what consciousness is.
Although I did read an article the other day about bees saying that they can count up to five and like most animals on earth seem to have a bias of counting left to right (though culturally some humans do prefer right to left). So it's possible that a lot of earth-based intelligence shares some fundamental building blocks.
An alien would have an entirely different brain structure perhaps and certainly a different psychological basis. Their visual, oral and communicative organs would be different, they wouldn't see or hear or as humans do (just like dogs and fruitflies etc.). They might not have sophisticated vocal chords.

As I write this a fly has been buzzing around my office ceiling for the past hour. It can fly, can walk upside down, its ancestors have been on this planet far long that my own humanoid ancestors, yet it can't hold a meaningful conversation with me or understand my shouts to piss off nor has it worked out that no matter how many times it headbutts a pale-coloured ceiling tile it can't fly through it. We are inhabiting the same space but we might as well be galaxies apart in terms of any intelligent cohabitation.

 

[Orionblamblam]

I like that theory. But it may not be enough for ET to know the outcome of our DNA research. Let's imagine that in the future the existence of a killer gene is discovered and researchers need DNA samples from famous killers of the past... But they can only access ink prints of fingerprints from police files. Then they would have to dig into some graves to get real genetic material.

A communication system that can tap into the internet and download everything must necessarily be a two-way communication system... it can't just read, it will have to press "enter" from time to time and answer the CAPTCHA. So the possibility exists that some of the weirdos online would be aliens. Some of the weirdos advocating for this or that are aliens. Some of the weirdos online who bought bitcoin early and are playing the stocks and who have amassed large fortunes and who are savvy at not just making more money but also at spending that money on politicians and scientists and influencers to get their way are aliens. So if they need some body dug up... they could get it done.

Looking at some of the weirdos inhabiting TikTok, I can easily believe that they are aliens, or are CGI constructs made and controlled by aliens. In which case it's clear that at least some of the aliens online do *not* wish us well. Whether that means they are actively belligerent or are simply amused by chaos... dunno.

 

[Orionblamblam]

I just find it mildly disturbing that so many folks take these wild fantasies seriously enough to be disturbed by them.

Then allow me to introduce you to Roko's Basilisk. Or, indeed, religion.

 

[Justo Miranda]

I like that theory. But it may not be enough for ET to know the outcome of our DNA research. Let's imagine that in the future the existence of a killer gene is discovered and researchers need DNA samples from famous killers of the past... But they can only access ink prints of fingerprints from police files. Then they would have to dig into some graves to get real genetic material.

A communication system that can tap into the internet and download everything must necessarily be a two-way communication system... it can't just read, it will have to press "enter" from time to time and answer the CAPTCHA. So the possibility exists that some of the weirdos online would be aliens. Some of the weirdos advocating for this or that are aliens. Some of the weirdos online who bought bitcoin early and are playing the stocks and who have amassed large fortunes and who are savvy at not just making more money but also at spending that money on politicians and scientists and influencers to get their way are aliens. So if they need some body dug up... they could get it done.

Looking at some of the weirdos inhabiting TikTok, I can easily believe that they are aliens, or are CGI constructs made and controlled by aliens. In which case it's clear that at least some of the aliens online do *not* wish us well. Whether that means they are actively belligerent or are simply amused by chaos... dunno.

Our Galaxy is old enough to house civilizations that may be BILLIONS of years older than Earth and that have evolved to develop telepathic capabilities. If so and if they are communicating with other civilizations by this means, we will not be able to grasp their thoughts and we will continue to ignore their existence.

Chronologically speaking it is not very probable that two civilizations evolve at the same time and are ready for contact. A few thousand years are not much for a galaxy and a too long period for the UN, NATO, or the Third Reich.

There is the theory of cyclical history as proposed by Oswald Spengler and developed in fiction by A.E. van Vogt, Robert A. Heinlein, and Isaac Asimov. According to that theory, a civilization can be ‘young’ and even barbaric, and yet high-tech, since civilizations comes and goes, though most of the technological progress done by the previous civilizations are not forgotten.

Perhaps biological intelligence is just a transient phenomenon in evolution. A very advanced society can achieve immortality by transferring the personality and memory of its individuals to eternally self-repairable quantum devices, as time crystals or spheres of energy. In that case they would prefer to inhabit the cold outer regions of the Galaxy and even intergalactic space, away from stellar disturbances, supernovae, and gravitational waves, which could cause interference in their computer systems.

They may despise societies made up of biological organisms and avoid any contact, as we do with mites. Why would those higher entities bother to establish a communication with us? What could we tell them?

Extraterrestrial creatures may have visited our world in the past, conducting a mapping study and collecting DNA samples for some galactic database. Perhaps they left robot probes behind to monitor our evolution and may come back if they do not like the latest reports.

There is the widespread belief that such an extraterrestrial technologically advanced civilization should not be aggressive, but even so they can do us a lot of harm. It would be unbearable for us to feel we are treated with the same patronizing attitude we deploy towards dolphins and chimpanzees. Just that feeling could destroy our societies, and their opinions on racism, democracy, religion, or monarchy might encourage sympathizers and imitators to end the system.

But they might not be so benevolent and not consider reprehensible the collection of biological samples, including us, or maybe they do not like what they find here and decide to exterminate us as we instinctively do with insects (many legs and hairy appearance) without considering whether it is a dangerous species or not.

They may even simply consider us proteins (the intelligence of cephalopods, cetaceans and primates is not at odds with cannibalism) or have an imperial pulse, the first man-made object to leave the Earth's atmosphere was launched from the Third Reich.

But the only sure thing is that, to get to us, ET will have to use FTL technology and the fact of knowing that it is possible would also cause chaos among the scientific establishment. That might be a good reason to not officially announce their existence and just study us as we do with abyssal wildlife.

Bathyscape=UFO?

Perhaps the inventors of the Internet received some ET inspiration, which would made extraordinarily easy to snoop into our lives as we do when installing cameras in bear and beaver shelters to study their family life. Although it would be much more effective to give them a mobile phone.

 

[Fluff]

Given we have had such systems as Nazism, and the USSR, I cant accept at face value that 'nice' will win the day. I'd say there have been points in our history where it didnt look like we would 'win'(so far).

As to Aliens wanting to travel, I can only offer 2 reasons:
1 - War, conquest, slaves, booty.
2 - Religion, involving above points, probably.

3 - Lads night out, a bit like predator/hunting lions

 

[zen]

A communication system that can tap into the internet and download everything must necessarily be a two-way communication system...

Measurement is a two way process.

3 - Lads night out, a bit like predator/hunting lions

Yeap, you get drunk with the lads and fly out to some low tech civilisation. There's always one who wants to molest the local wildlife, and one who thinks he can speak the native lingo and another who keeps trying to order a kebab from a Chinese takeaway.
Just another drunken day out in the galaxy....

 

[Hood]

Spielberg thought we'd only need a Speak and Spell and kitchen foil antennas to communicate with aliens so who knows...

Update on the fly: it is now flying free in the world once more, with the assistance of a human who (quite logically since we invented it) knows you can't fly through glass. So 250 million years of evolution versus 2.8 million years shows it's not how long you've been here but what brain power you have that counts.

 

[martinbayer]

It is disturbing to think that some of these moments of inspiration might have being not a natural phenomenon, but memes implanted by an external intelligence with the intention of directing the evolution of our species.

To educate us for altruism?

To train us for some dark reason?

Spock would say that is the most logical answer.

I just find it mildly disturbing that so many folks take these wild fantasies seriously enough to be disturbed by them. Horror movies and serial-killer crime stories also bore me stiff. In fact, I think after seven pages I might sign off this thread now. Happy rambling, all!

I wholeheartedly agree - there is so much wild overimagination in this thread that a single cut by Occam's Razor would put a swift and merciful end to. Simulation hypothesis, anyone?

 

[Justo Miranda]

It is disturbing to think that some of these moments of inspiration might have being not a natural phenomenon, but memes implanted by an external intelligence with the intention of directing the evolution of our species.

To educate us for altruism?

To train us for some dark reason?

Spock would say that is the most logical answer.

I just find it mildly disturbing that so many folks take these wild fantasies seriously enough to be disturbed by them. Horror movies and serial-killer crime stories also bore me stiff. In fact, I think after seven pages I might sign off this thread now. Happy rambling, all!

I wholeheartedly agree - there is so much wild overimagination in this thread that a single cut by Occam's Razor would put a swift and merciful end to. Simulation hypothesis, anyone?

Basically, it is about defining what differentiates us from the cat, according to the beliefs of each one can choose between God, blind evolution and ET. In all three cases it is necessary to use some imagination because science cannot give a serious opinion.

 

[steelpillow]

What is known to philosophers as the "hard problem" in the theory of consciousness - the existence and nature of subjective experience accompanying the objective brain activity - is notorious for not being amenable to scientific analysis. It is also off topic. Please stop drifting away and focus on the practical aspects of extraterrestrial beings.

 

[martinbayer]

It is disturbing to think that some of these moments of inspiration might have being not a natural phenomenon, but memes implanted by an external intelligence with the intention of directing the evolution of our species.

To educate us for altruism?

To train us for some dark reason?

Spock would say that is the most logical answer.

I just find it mildly disturbing that so many folks take these wild fantasies seriously enough to be disturbed by them. Horror movies and serial-killer crime stories also bore me stiff. In fact, I think after seven pages I might sign off this thread now. Happy rambling, all!

I wholeheartedly agree - there is so much wild overimagination in this thread that a single cut by Occam's Razor would put a swift and merciful end to. Simulation hypothesis, anyone?

Basically, it is about defining what differentiates us from the cat, according to the beliefs of each one can choose between God, blind evolution and ET. In all three cases it is necessary to use some imagination because science cannot give a serious opinion.

Conclusively prove to me that cats do not ruminate about choosing between God, blind evolution and ET .

 

[Archibald]

They certainly ruminate about food - and world domination, too.

 

[Arjen]

If you introduce ET or God to explain the existence of intelligent life on Earth, you have only moved the original home of intelligence from Earth to another, unspecified place - or plane. You will have done nothing on formulating how original intelligence - ET / God / humans - arises, you will have only displaced the problem. Without proof for the interference of ET or God, I will stick with blind evolution as a starting position in the search for the origin of intelligent life. The more we know, the more we understand how little we know, the better we touch the sheer immensity of reality.

 

[Sherman Tank]

Apart from a (currently) habitable biosphere, there's no particular known resources on Earth that an alien civilization couldn't get easier by just mining asteroids or even uninhabited planets. On the other hand there's no correlation between technological advancement and goodnaturedness on this planet, and why would hypothetical aliens be any different?

In other words, if hostile aliens come to Earth it won't be to strip mine the planet, it'll be because they're dicks.

 

[Fluff]

Apart from a (currently) habitable biosphere, there's no particular known resources on Earth that an alien civilization couldn't get easier by just mining asteroids or even uninhabited planets. On the other hand there's no correlation between technological advancement and goodnaturedness on this planet, and why would hypothetical aliens be any different?

In other words, if hostile aliens come to Earth it won't be to strip mine the planet, it'll be because they're dicks.

what if they are going to strip mine dicks?

 

[Arjen]

Win-win? I presume you're not talking body parts...

 

[that_person]

I've played enough Halo to know contacting aliens isn't a good idea...

 

[Foo Fighter]

As far as it goes inteligence in other species is a thing of many facets. What makes inteligence? Is it the ability to learn or the abilty to USE what you learn? Animals other than our species have it.

I feed Badgers every night and if one of them 'loses' a sausage, I use hand gestures and vocalisation 'till they find it, following what I tell them.

Why some folk are certain aliens will want to kill or dominate us is a miss Terry to me, if they are smart enough to get here I would expect some for research on primitive species like a ailderness expedition (Step up Mr Backshall) and or treat us as nothing more than a nuisance.

Inteligence teaches us how good we can be, it's fear that makes us Bar Keeps.