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Author Topic: CANT and CRDA list  (Read 7393 times)

Offline hesham

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CANT and CRDA list
« on: July 24, 2010, 05:34:02 am »
Hi,

CNT-I         ----?
CNT-II        was seaplane for Schneider Cup racer.
CNT-3        ----?
CNT-4        ----?
CNT-5        ----?
CANT-6     was three-engine biplane flying boat.
CANT-7     was single-engined training flying boat biplane.
CANT-8     ----?
CANT-9     ----?
CANT-10   was twin-engined flying boat airliner biplane.
CANT-11   was seaplane built for the Schneider Cup racer of 1924.
CANT-12   was single-engined seaplane biplane.
CANT-13   was single-engined two-seat amphibian biplane.
CANT-14 to CANT-17   ----?
CANT-18   was single-engined seaplane for advanced trainer.
CANT-19 & CANT-20   ----?
CANT-21   was reconnaissance flying boat, similar to CANNOT 10 and 13.
CANT-22   was three-engined airliner seaplane.
CANT-23   was landing airliner aircraft.
CANT-24   -----?
CANT-25   was shipboard single-seat biplane flying boat fighter.
CANT-26   was two-seat biplane landing trainer.
CANT-27   was commercial transport seaplane flying boat.
CANT-28 to CANT-34    ----?
CANT-35   was seaplane reconnaissance and bomber lightweight biplane.
CANT-36   was a biplane advanced trainer.
CANT-37   was developed from CANT-35.
CANT-38   was seaplane biplane reconnaissance and light bomber.

CRDA seaplanes;

Z-501    was single-engined parasol-wing seaplane reconnaissance and 
             bomber.
Z-502 & Z-503  were developed from Z-501 (not sure).
Z-504    was shipboard reconnaissance biplane flying boat.
Z-505    was mail seaplane.
Z-506    was seaplane reconnaissance and bomber developed from
             Z-505.
Z-507    was a torpedo bomber version of Z-506.
Z-508    was three-engined seaplane reconnaissance and bomber.
Z-509    was was a three-engine Italian floatplane developed from
             the Z.506A for use as a mailplane.
Z-510    was twin engined reconnaissance/bomber floatplane project.
Z-511    was a four-engine long-range seaplane airliner.
Z-512    was strategic Bomber Flying Boat.
Z-513    ----?
Z-514    was a floatplane version of Z-1018 bomber.
Z-515    was twin-engined reconnaissance seaplane.
Z-516    was a seaplane bomber.

CRDA land planes;

Z-1001    ----?
Z-1002    ----?
Z-1003    was three engined airliner project.
Z-1004    was three engined airliner project.
Z-1005    was three engined bomber project.
Z-1006    ----?
Z-1007    was three-engined medium bomber.
Z-1008    was developed from Z-1007bis as a bomber also,with four engined,project.
Z-1009    ----?
Z-1010    was four-passenger high-wing light transport monoplane.
Z-1011    was a twin engined low-wing bomber/transport aircraft.
Z-1012    was three-engined low-wing airliner monoplane.
Z-1013    ----?
Z-1014    was four-engined long range heavy bomber.
Z-1015    was all-metal bomber version of Z-1007.
Z-1016    was a proposed single engine derivative of the Z-1015.
Z-1017    was three engined torpedo bomber developed from Z-1015.
Z-1018    was twin-engined medium bomber.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 07:21:30 am by hesham »

Offline redstar72

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Re: CANT and CRDA list
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2010, 09:27:58 am »
Z-1015    was all-metal bomber version of Z-1007.

No.
Z-1015 was initially a civil derivative of the Z-1007: a long-range, high-speed mailplane. It was designed for regular postal flights between Italy and South America. The wings etc. were taken from Z-1007, only fuselage was new - smaller, aerodynamically faired as much as possible. Z-1015 was made of wood, as well as its progenitor.

The only Z-1015 prototype was flown on January 20, 1939 by Mario Stoppani. Initially it was powered by the same engines as Z-1007: three Piaggio P-XI, 1000 hp each. But at that time a new engine was successfully tested by Piaggio company - P-XII RC-35, delivering 1500 hp power. The CANT company managed to obtain three of them from pre-series production, and mount them on Z-1015 instead of P-XI. With new engines and new D'Ascanio variable-pitch propellers, Z-1015 reached 557 km/h at 4500 m altitude - excellent result.

But in 1940 Italy was engaged into war, and pure civil Z-1015 became inactual. But its performance intrigued the Air Force: they borrowed the prototype, repainted it into camouflage, assigned serial number MM512 to it and transmit it to Gorizia, where torpedo bombing training center was placed. Z-1015 lost some internal fuel tanks and obtained external crunches for torpedo instead, but any defensive weapon wasn't installed. So, it became an unarmed torpedo bomber!

The tests indicated that Z-1015 could drop a torpedo from 100 m altitude on 425 km/h speed, which was favourable speed for smooth submersion of the torpedo and its targeting. Generally, Z-1015 was better than production SM.79 torpedo bomber; but even to produce appropriate numbers of existing aircraft types was difficult for Italian industry, and they decided not to put Z-1015 into production.

Technical data:
 Wing span - 24.8 m
 Length - 18.14 m
 Wing area - 75.0 m2
 Takeoff weight: 13 615 kg (civil version), 15 014 kg (military version)
 Powerplant: 3x Piaggio P-XII RC-35, 18-cylinder double radials, 1500 hp each
 Crew - 4
 Maximum speed - 557 km/h (4500 m altitude)
 Flight range - 2982 km

Source: V. Nĕmeček. CANT Z-1015 / Letectvi+Kosmonautika (L+K), No.11/1978. The drawing is by Stanislav Smékal; the color profile from L+K No.15/1978 is by Miroslav Balous.
Best regards,
Alexander

Offline hesham

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Re: CANT and CRDA list
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2013, 07:19:35 am »
Hi,


also in the site about Z-1007,they spoke about Z-1004 project as a three seat landplane,
may be version of Z-506,and Z-1005 as attack aircraft project,any confirm for this.


http://www.afwing.com/intro/z.1007_alcione/z.1007_Alcione-1.htm

Offline hesham

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Re: CANT and CRDA list
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2014, 02:13:44 pm »
Hi,


also in the site about Z-1007,they spoke about Z-1004 project as a three seat landplane,
may be version of Z-506,and Z-1005 as attack aircraft project,any confirm for this.


http://www.afwing.com/intro/z.1007_alcione/z.1007_Alcione-1.htm


Some explanations;


Z-1003  was three engined airliner project
Z-1004  was also three engined airliner project
Z-1005  was three engined bomber project
Z-1008  was four engined bomber project
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 01:23:46 pm by hesham »

Offline hesham

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Re: CANT and CRDA list
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2015, 09:08:42 am »
Hi,


the C.S.6 was a prototype of 1924,intended as multi-engine torpedo bomber
flying boat.

Offline hesham

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Re: CANT and CRDA list
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2015, 07:10:27 am »

Offline hesham

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Re: CANT and CRDA list
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2015, 09:01:07 am »
Hi,


here is a rare 3-view drawings to Z.1010,Z,1011 & Z-1012 aircraft;


http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/libri/PDF_Libri_By_AVIA/Cento_aeroplani_e_un_grande_cuore.pdf

Offline hesham

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Re: CANT and CRDA list
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2015, 09:58:21 am »
Hi,


here is a rare 3-view to CANT-23,also with rare picture to CANT-38.


http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/libri/PDF_Libri_By_AVIA/Aviazione%20-%20Fraschini%20I..pdf

Offline hesham

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Re: CANT and CRDA list
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2016, 08:23:26 am »
Hi,

Cant-27 was a commercial transport seaplane of 1928,powered by one 500 ho
Asso engine.

Offline Apophenia

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Re: CANT and CRDA list
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2016, 08:22:39 pm »
Below is my version of a CNT/CANT designation list. It adds some details but no new model numbers to Hesham's list.

I have put in holding numbers for Models I/1, III/3 through V/5. I strongly suspect that designations such as 'CNT-I/CNT-1', 'CNT-III/CNT-3', 'CNT-IV/CNT-4', and 'CNT-V/CNT-5' are unicorns.

The original designation of the CNT-II/CNT-2 racers was D.G.A.3 (being designed by Alessandro Guidoni, director of the Direzione Superiore del Genio e delle Costruzioni Aeronautiche del Ministero dell’Aeronautica). If others of those unaccounted for 'designations' also sprang from outside designers, likely they initially had non-standard designation applied too.

Air History lists three "CNT Cant 3" (I-AAKX c/n 191, I-AAKJ c/n 192, and I-AAKY c/n 193 going to SISA at Portorose in 1930, then to the Regia Aeronautica in 1933). All of these 'CNT Cant 3s' seem to actually be CANT 18s.

The prototype of what became the CNT 6 was designated CS 6 (for CNT Silurante 6). So, a role suffix letter following 'C' for CNT. Other designs from Raffaele Conflenti among those unaccounted for 'designations' likely followed suit. Designation like 'CNT-I' or 'CNT-5' might have been applied retroactively (if at all).

Some 'missing designations' might be accounted for by the SIAI S.55 and S.59bis built under license by CANT in 1927-1932.
There is also an odd reference to a 'CANT 65 Mk.11' mentioned as a contemorary of the CANT 22 in 'Tre Motore Italiano' by Franco Bugada, RC Model World, May 2014, pg 83. "Between 1928 and 1932, SISA substituted their aircraft by using the three-engined CANT 65 Mk.11, CANT 22 and 22R1." http://www.idromodelli.it/Model_World.pdf

CNT and CANT designations are seen with hyphens and periods but I've written them with a space (which seems to have been the contemporary CNT/CANT practice). Some sources use 'NC' as if it were a designation - eg: NC.40 for the CANT 6ter, I-ONIO. Of course, 'NC' simply stands for Numero Costruzione.

First some corporate stuff ...
________________

Cantieri Navali Triestini (CNT)

1908 - Cantiere Navale Triestino established by the Cosulich family at Monfalcone
 - In full, the 'Cantiere navale triestino di Monfalcone', a joint stock company

1921 - owners of CNT enter aviation business, establishing SISA
 - Società Italiana Servizi Aerei was an air taxi/airline/seaplane training school

1923 - Officine Aeronautiche del CNT workshop established (within CNT Monfalcone yard)
 - Ing. Raffaele Conflenti, Aeronautical Technical Manager
 -- Conflenti, who came from CAMS in France, was earlier at SIAI
 - Ing. Filippo Zappata, Technical and Experimental Division Manager

1924 - Aircraft production begins with D.G.A.3 and CS 6/CNT 6

1926 - CNT becomes Cantieri Aeronautici e Navali Triestini (CANT)
 - Ing. Filippo Zappata leaves CANT for Blériot Aéronautique in France

1930 - Cantieri Riuniti dell'Adriatico (CRDA, United Adriatic Shipbuilding)
 - 18 Sept 1930: CRDA was CNT merged with Stabilimento Tecnico Triestino

1932 - Raffaele Conflenti leaves for airline, Società Aerea Mediterranea (SAM)
 - NB: Conflenti did not join Aeronautica Caproni as designer until 1936

1933 - CRDA compulsory acquired by state/public holding company IRI
 - Istituto per la Ricostruzione Industriale/Inst. for Industrial Reconstruction
 - Zappata returns as chief designer (persuaded by Marshall Italo Balbo)

1933-34 new designation sequence with 'Z' for Zappata
 - Z.5xx desig. for seaplanes (first applied to 1934 Z.501 flying boat)
 - Z.1xxx designations for land a/c (1st applied to Z-1003 airliner?)

_____________________________________________________

Cantieri (Aeronautici e) Navali Triestini Designation

Cantieri Navali Triestini - CNT Aircraft Designations

1 ---- [??]

CNT II - 1924 biplane flying boat racer,* aka CNT 2, x 2
 - CNT II: 1 x 465 hp (type) V-12 mounted above top wing
 -- Designed by Alessandro Guidoni for 1925 Schneider Cup
 -- Orig. desig. D.G.A.3, both prototype racers sank
 -- https://web.archive.org/web/20150225173258/http://www.archeologiaindustriale.it/sez_produzione_it.php?&content_type=aereo&goto_id=4387

3 ---- [??]
4 ---- [??]
5 ---- [??]

CNT 6 - 1924 trimotor biplane torpedo bomber, span 22.11 m
 - CNT 6: 3 x 400 hp Lorraine-Dietrich 12Db V-12s, crew 3
 -- aka CS 6 (CNT Silurante 6), entered service 1926, x 9
 -- http://www.giemmesesto.org/Documentazione/Aerei/fotoaerei/Cant6/01Cant6.jpg
 -- http://forum.valka.cz/attachments/217/Italy1923Cant6-a.jpg
 - CNT 6bis: 1925 revised push-pull, 2 x LD 12Db, x 1
 -- CNT 6bis revision designed by Ing. Filippo Zappata
 -- 1 x re-eng. (MM.45035) with 510 hp I-F Asso 500 V-12s
 -- http://www.giemmesesto.org/Documentazione/Aerei/fotoaerei/Cant6/03Cant6.jpg


Cantieri Aeronautici e Navali Triestini - CANT Designations


CANT 6ter - 1925-26 tractor trimotor biplane flying boat
 - CANT 6ter: 11 pax CNT 6 airliner. of  devel, span 22.11 m
 -- CANT 6ter had equal-span single-bay wings, cruciform tail
 - CANT 6 ter: 3 x 500 hp I-F Asso 500,* span 23.20 m
 -- * 27.71L water-cooled V-12 (bore 140 mm x stroke 150 mm)
 -- http://forum.valka.cz/attachments/11102/Cant6-ter-1926.jpg

CANT 7 -- 1924 single-engined pusher biplane flying boat
 - CANT 7 : 2-seat military* flying boat trainer, x 34
 -- * Developed for Società Italiana Servizi Aerei (SISA)
 - CANT 7 : 1 x 160 hp I-F V.4e 6-cyl, span 11.80 m, x 13
 - CANT 7bis : 1 x 250 hp I-F V.6 7.4L 6-cyl, x 5
 - CANT 7ter: 1 x 250 hp SPA 6A or I-F Asso 200,** x 15
 -- ** 14.78L inline 6-cyl (bore 140 mm x stroke 160 mm)
 -- Original desig. CNT 7, CANT 7 design led to CANT 12

CANT 8 -- [??]
CANT 9 -- [??]

CANT 10 - 1925 single-engined pusher biplane flying boat
 - CANT 10 : 1 x 300 hp Fiat A.12bis 6-cyl, span varies*
 - CANT 10bis : 1 x 400 hp Lorraine-Dietrich 12 Db V-12
 - CANT 10ter : 1 x 500 hp I-F Asso 500 27.71L V-12
 -- CANT 10ter for the Aviación Naval Paraguaya
 - CANT 10ter2: Passenger airliner, front cabin
 - CANT 10 M : Militarized vers. of CANT 10ter, x 1
 -- aka CANT 10 M.Ri (Militare Ricognizione)
 -- Wing spans for diff. models 13.10 m to 15.15 m

CANT 11 - [??]

CANT 12 - 1926 maritime recce flying boat, CANT 7 devel.*
 - CANT 12: 1 x 250 hp I-F V.6 6-cyl pusher, span ??
 -- * Longer span, 3 crew, 1 x for Regia Marina (I-ODEF)
 -- http://www.giemmesesto.org/Documentazione/Aerei/fotoaerei/Cant12/02Cant12.jpg

CANT 13 - 1925 pusher biplane flying boat amphibian
 - CANT 13: 1 x 400 hp Lorraine Dietrich 12Db, span ??
 -- 2 x prototypes (MM.52 'Naviplano' and MM.53)
 -- http://www.giemmesesto.org/Documentazione/Aerei/fotoaerei/Cant13/03Cant13.jpg
 - CANT 13bis: [Project] 1 x 510 hp I-F Asso 500 V-12

CANT 14 - [??]
CANT 15 - [??]
CANT 16 - [??]
CANT 17 - [??]

CANT 18 - 1926 single-engined pusher biplane flying boat, x 26
 - CANT 18 : Aerobatic, 1 x 250 hp I-F Asso 200, span 10.50 m
 - CANT 18bis: 2-seat prod'n vers., 1 x 250 hp I-F Asso 200
 -- http://www.giemmesesto.org/Documentazione/Aerei/fotoaerei/Cant18/02Cant18.jpg
 - CANT 18 ??: 1930 Uruguay navy vers., I-F Asso 200, x 2
 - CANT 18ter: 2-seat fighter vers., 1 x 410 hp Fiat A.20, x 1

CANT 19 - [??]
CANT 20 - [??]

CANT 21 - 1926 single-engined recce-bomber biplane flying boat
 - CANT 21 : 1 x 500 hp I-F Asso 500 pusher, span 16.00 m, x 2
 - CANT 21bis: Mod. vers., 1 x I-F Asso 500Ri, x 1 (MM.145)
 -- http://www.giemmesesto.org/Documentazione/Aerei/cant21.html

CANT 22 - 1928 tractor trimotor sesquiplane flying boat*
 -- * Commercial transport, consid. CANT 6ter replacement
 - CANT 22 : Warren truss wing/float bracing, span 21.20 m
 -- Prototype 'San Giusto' (I-AABM) 1st flight March 1928
 - CANT 22 : Prototype & 1st 2, 3 x 510 hp I-F Asso 500
 - CANT 22R1: 1 x 510 hp I-F Asso 500, 2 x 250 hp Asso 200

CANT 23 - [Project] 1932* trimotor biplane airliner, x 1
 - CANT 23: (Planned) 3 x 250 hp I-F Asso 200, span 21.00 m
 - CANT 23: (Built) 1 x 510 hp Asso 500, 2 x 250 hp Asso 200
 -- * Construction actually began in 1927, based on CANT 22
 -- 1 built (I-ABLA), CANT 23 program abandoned 05 Jan 1933
 -- http://www.giemmesesto.org/Documentazione/Aerei/cant23.html

CANT 24 - [??]

CANT 25 - 1927 biplane shipboard fighter flying boat,* x 39
 - CANT 25 : CANT 18 deriv., 1 x 410 hp Fiat A.20 V-12
 -- * Shipboard fighter aboard Condottieri light cruisers
 - CANT 25 : 1927 first prototype (MM.126), span 12.00 m
 - CANT 25 : 1929 civil vers. (I-AAKZ for SISA), Asso 200
 - CANT 25M: 1929 3rd prototype (MM.159), remov. wings, x 1
 - CANT 25M: Prod'n vers., as per 2nd prototype, x 14**
 -- ** Sources vary, Giemmesesto list only 8 x '25M Serie I°
 - CANT 25 : 1931 4th prototype (MM.160), minor changes
 - CANT 25 : 1932 5th prototype (MM.189), sesquiplane
 - CANT 25AR:*** 1933, 440 hp Fiat A.20, folding wings, x 18
 -- *** 'Ali Ripiegabili', straight struts repl. Warren truss
 -- 6 x 25AR Serie II°, 6 x Serie III°, 6 x Serie IV°
 -- 25 surviving 'idrocaccia' used as pilot trainers
 -- https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/c4/9c/24/c49c24579d91897a2e2c9fea48b58342.jpg
 -- http://www.giemmesesto.org/Documentazione/Aerei/cant25.html
 -- http://www.marina.difesa.it/storiacultura/storia/almanacco/Pagine/aviazione/crda_cant25.aspx

CANT 26 - 1928 single-engined 2-seat biplane trainer, x 8
 - CANT 26: Tractor engine (various types),* span 10.70 m
 -- http://www.giemmesesto.org/Documentazione/Aerei/fotoaerei/Cant26/2Cant26.jpg
 - CANT 26 idro: Standard CANT 26 fitted with twin floats
 -- http://www.giemmesesto.org/Documentazione/Aerei/fotoaerei/Cant26/4Cant26.jpg
 -- * Standard: 90 hp Fiat A.50 air-cooled 7-cyl radial
 -- * 90 hp Colombo S.53 air-cooled 4-cyl inline (MM.138)
 -- * 110 hp I-F Asso 80Ri air-cooled 6-cyl inline (I-AAPO)
 -- * 85 hp ADC Cirrus-Hermes II air-cooled 4-cyl (I-AAPV)
 -- Flight, 8 Aug 1929, has the CANT 26 with a 80 hp I-F
 -- https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1929/1929-1%20-%200703.html

CANT 27 - 1928 commercial transport seaplane
 - CANT 27: 1 x 500 hp I-F Asso 500
 -- http://www.naviearmatori.net/albums/userpics/11615/1444169401.jpg
 -- Image claims to be of CANT 27 (looks very much like CANT 7ter)

CANT-28 - [??]
CANT-29 - [??]
CANT-30 - [??]
CANT-31 - [??]
CANT-32 - [??]
CANT-33 - [??]
CANT-34 - [??]

CANT 35 - 1932 3-seat single-engined recce biplane, x 1
 - CANT 35: Flying boat (CANT 21 devel, led to CANT 37)
 - CANT 35: 1 x 510 hp I-F Asso 500 V-12,* span 14.29 m
 -- Prototype (MM.154) shipboard a/c, removable wings
 -- * Planned 1 x 440 hp I-F Asso Caccia air-cooled V-12

CANT 36 - 1931 2-seat biplane advanced trainer, span 10.50 m, x 1
 CANT 36: MM.148, wooden constr., 1 x 250 hp I-F Asso 200 6-cyl
 -- http://www.giemmesesto.org/Documentazione/Aerei/cant36.html

CANT 37 - 1932 3-seat single-engined recce biplane, x 1
 - CANT 37: Flying boat, CANT 35 devel with folding wings
 - CANT 35: 1 x 400 hp I-F Asso 500 V-12, span 16.60 m
 -- Prototype (MM.158) shipboard a/c, crew 3, w/o 1933
 -- http://www.giemmesesto.org/Documentazione/Aerei/fotoaerei/Cant37/3Cant37.jpg

CANT 38 - [Project] 193? single-engined biplane flying boat
 - CANT 38 : 1 x 520 hp I-F Asso 500 tractor, span 16.00 m
 -- CANT 38 naval recce-light bomber, CANT 21bis update

_____________________________________________________
« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 08:24:16 pm by Apophenia »

Offline hesham

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Re: CANT and CRDA list
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2016, 05:05:26 am »
Excellent work my dear Apophenia.

Offline Sherman Tank

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Re: CANT and CRDA list
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2016, 04:31:52 pm »
Enrico Cernuschi and Vincent O'Hara's article on Italian aircraft carrier design ("Search for a Flattop: The Italian Navy and the Aircraft Carrier 1907-2007") in Warship 2007 has this description of an unbuilt spinoff of the CANT Z.1012 on page 70:

Quote
"[The end of the war in Ethiopia removed the urgent need for an Italian aircraft carrier and] also ended hopes for the 14,000t carrier [design], which was cancelled despite the order already placed for the fighters (the Caproni Ca.165 biplane) and the torpedo-bomber (a single-engined, more powerful Isotta Fraschini version of the little Cant. Z.1012 which, at least in theory, had performance characteristics analogous to the Japanese Nakajima 'Kate')."

Offline hesham

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Re: CANT and CRDA list
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2016, 05:03:50 am »
Many thanks for this Info Sherman.

Offline carlo961

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Re: CANT and CRDA list
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2017, 03:32:58 am »
The Cant Z-1005 bomber (never built) can be considered an embrional forerunner of the Cant Z-1007 ?
In my humble opionion, yes, since both aircraft were bombers and had three Isotta Fraschini Asso engines, moreover the same bomb load (500 kg).
The strange feature of the Cant Z-1005 was the installation of a fixed machine gun on each wing root, firing forward.
Are there somewhere some drawings of the Cant Z-1005 ?
Thank you

Offline hesham

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Re: CANT and CRDA list
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2017, 04:31:34 am »
No,unfortunately there is not drawing for it Carlo.