Wright Air Development Center /ASD in-house Projects

allysonca

ACCESS: Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
11 March 2011
Messages
286
Reaction score
981
Here are some I be no one has ever seen.... Maker unknown and any insight would be great. Found at a local hobby shop in a box, long forgotten. Owner of the shop says they came from the collection of a Northrop Engineer, but these are most decidedly not from the Northrop model shop. Note the label that is hand written on model 2:
Washington DC Design D-0953

Property of Design Bureau
Air Research Labs Washington DC
Wright Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio


MODEL ONE is a twin centered engine configuration..... Fighter? Bomber? Interceptor? Let the debates begin.


MODEL TWO is a supersonic seaplane. Had the small tail ski, but the main ski/skid is long gone. Have fun and I wait with great anticipation the findings of the group.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2286_3.jpg
    IMG_2286_3.jpg
    42.7 KB · Views: 271
  • IMG_2284.jpg
    IMG_2284.jpg
    289.9 KB · Views: 48
  • IMG_2285.jpg
    IMG_2285.jpg
    163 KB · Views: 53
  • IMG_2292.jpg
    IMG_2292.jpg
    194.9 KB · Views: 53
  • IMG_2296.jpg
    IMG_2296.jpg
    227 KB · Views: 171
  • IMG_2291.jpg
    IMG_2291.jpg
    194.1 KB · Views: 51
  • IMG_2293.jpg
    IMG_2293.jpg
    387.7 KB · Views: 225
  • IMG_2294.jpg
    IMG_2294.jpg
    230.4 KB · Views: 242
  • IMG_2288.jpg
    IMG_2288.jpg
    217.7 KB · Views: 266
  • IMG_2298.jpg
    IMG_2298.jpg
    54 KB · Views: 268
"D-953" looks like a Douglas designation... and the design has a definite Douglas feel to it.
 
Very interesting projects Allysonca,


but they also wrote on one Model "P-953",and may be P designation was for Curtiss-Wright.
 
My thoughts were Douglas as well. The paint and the canopy treatment are consistent with other Douglas in-house models that I have have collected over the years. The silver looks to be spot on but the blue canopies are close, but not quite a match.
 
Interesting find. I would, however, suggest that this concerns a study only and that they needed some baseline concepts of a VTOL aircraft. In other words, it was never intended to build anything like that.
 
Jos Heyman said:
Interesting find. I would, however, suggest that this concerns a study only and that they needed some baseline concepts of a VTOL aircraft. In other words, it was never intended to build anything like that.


Yes my dear Jos,but only exercise Models.
 
Does this strange project say anything to anyone? I don't think I've ever seen anything weirder, especially considering the "FN-" prefix on the model indicating a fighter project. Tall swept T-tail, second cockpit in root of said tail, very short fuselage, swept-wings,two contra-rotating props with three boomerang-shaped blades on each. Spontaneously I'm thinking "Republic", but it's really just a hunch with little to back it up.

1705017319825.png
 
I have to admit to instantly relating to a film prop or REALLY good/bad carpet.
 
I'm 100% sure I've seen that before. Just need to remember where.......
 
Does this strange project say anything to anyone?
Never seen such design. Do you have a source?

Clearly not a "pre 1945 project" so it should be moved to the proper forum section.

It looks Republic for association with the XF-84H because of the contra-rotating propellers, the turboprop engine and the T-tail.
Who knows...supposing that's a real project.

To me it doesn't looks like a fighter, at least an air superiority fighter. The aft canopy seems to be accesible from the fuselage only, making difficult an emergency escape. And why a second member would be needed?
Also, what about the undercarriage configuration? The wing roots start almost from the nose...
 
Outsize props, stumpy fuselage. Could it be a tailsitter?
 
I have to admit to instantly relating to a film prop or REALLY good/bad carpet.
It does look sci-fi indeed, which is what really struck me, because it's from a serious magazine.

I'm 100% sure I've seen that before. Just need to remember where.......
Please try and remember! ;)

Never seen such design. Do you have a source?
Yep. It's from an 1953 item (from Aviation Week, I believe). I isolated it from the other designs because 1°) they seem to be mostly bombers, and 2°) they are not as remarkable, offbeat or unseen. The design is described there as "an early all-weather turboprop fighter fitted with three-blade counter-rotating propellers of swept blade design, later obsoleted by very thin straight blades." See attachment.

Clearly not a "pre 1945 project" so it should be moved to the proper forum section.
Oops! Been away too long from the forum. I should have known better than making that rookie's mistake! Please move this to the appropriate section.

It looks Republic for association with the XF-84H because of the contra-rotating propellers, the turboprop engine and the T-tail.
Indeed.

To me it doesn't looks like a fighter, at least an air superiority fighter. The aft canopy seems to be accesible from the fuselage only, making difficult an emergency escape. And why a second member would be needed? Also, what about the undercarriage configuration? The wing roots start almost from the nose...
Definitely. I was thinking parasite fighter at some point, but the T-tail kind of contradicts that, unless of course it was not to be fitted under a bomber's wing, but at the wing tips.

Outsize props, stumpy fuselage. Could it be a tailsitter?
I thought about this as well, but the absence of any kind of reinforced area or pod at the tip of the tail makes it unlikely.
 

Attachments

  • 1953-08-17_p.415.jpg
    1953-08-17_p.415.jpg
    252.2 KB · Views: 93
  • 1705054849982.png
    1705054849982.png
    30.7 KB · Views: 94
The T-tail reminds of Hans Multhopp's designs (Ta 183; after the war he worked at Martin - see several Martin concepts which reflect his design imputs). Could it be from Martin?
 
And why a second member would be needed?
The page's description answers that,

an early all-weather turboprop fighter

From 'early', 'all weather', you know that a second crewman will be required for operating the radar, so, they are in aft cockpit with pilot in forward cockpit. Several other aircraft have used similar separated cockpits arrangements, Bristol Beaufighter and Fairey Gannet come to mind.
 
Does this strange project say anything to anyone?
Yes.
"Make me be a plastic model kit which has nice crew guys, nice cockpits with moving parts for crew access, operating retractable landing gear, a removable hatch over the nicely done engines, and contra rotation gearing for the props which will spin in a breeze".
 
The page's description answers that,
Thanks southwestforests for pointing at it.

So what we have here are real research on radical aircraft concepts produced at Wright Air Development Center.
Really interesting. Thanks for sharing Stargazer.
 
Most of those designs look vaguely familiar or have been included in books before but I can't place having seen this one before (nor the what looks like an RPV with the nose intake).
 
Most of those designs look vaguely familiar or have been included in books before but I can't place having seen this one before (nor the what looks like an RPV with the nose intake).
That particular one definitely rings a bell, and I'm sure to have seen it elsewhere before.
 
As said above, this is all explained IN THE PAGE.

These designs are all by The US Air Force's Wright Air Development Center. With each requirement being formulated, WADC engineers would create a baseline design of the kinds of technologies that might be relevant to that requirement, sometimes with industry assistance. Models would be made and tested. There was no intent to build the specific design.

This would continue through later years. We've seen models of AMSA, FX, and others produced by Wright-Patterson in https://www.google.co.nz/books/edition/Splendid_Vision_Unswerving_Purpose/E_GsiMU2sksC

The bigger question is, can you match the model to the requirement?
 
Last edited:
AX
asd-ax-jpg.667358

AMSA
asd-amsa-jpg.667359

FX
wright-patterson-f-x-f-15-jpg.667352


ALCM
asd-alcm-jpg.667361
 
Don't forget, Wright Field housed the various USAF Labs which were responsible for basic research into new aerospace technologies, which was given to the various companies to incorporate (or not). The in-house designs could showcase recently developed technologies of potential relevance to a new requirement.
 
Last edited:
DEVELOPMENT PLANNING

Development planning evolved from several different disciplines over many decades. The foremost and central discipline was aircraft design. Its origins were in the Plane Design Office of the Signal Corp's Aviation Section, Washington, D.C. The office and its technical staff transferred to McCook in 1917 and became the core around which other technical sections and laboratories of the Aircraft Engineering Division were organized. During World War I and the early 1920s, McCook's engineers designed and built their own prototype airplanes in addition to testing and evaluating industry models. McCook's premier airplane design engineer at that time was Alfred Verville. Another veteran design engineer, Jean Roché, led the design group well into the1930s. McCook's design engineers discontinued the practice of designing prototype aircraft for in-house fabrication, test, and evaluation in the early 1920s. This was done by order of Air Service Chief Major General Mason Patrick, due to industry complaints of unfair competition by McCook's aircraft design "brain trust" and fears that the Army intended to establish McCook along lines of an arsenal that would design and manufacture its own operational aircraft. The Engineering Division continued, however, to develop designs for airplane structures like airfoils and small test specimens, such as gliders used in conducting experimental research. Most importantly for the later development planning function, however, the division's engineers continued the practice of drafting preliminary designs for all new aircraft to be developed and acquired by the Army. These preliminary designs incorporated Air Corps operational requirements and served as the basis for more detailed performance specifications issued to industry. The aircraft design group was part of McCook's Airplane Section, which became Wright Field's Aircraft Laboratory in 1939. There it remained until 1959, when the Wright Field laboratories were completely reorganized. Development of more complex and expensive airplanes, beginning in the later 1930s and through World War II , led in the 1950s to the emergence of the second component of development planning: systems cost analysis. The foremost advocate of the need for performing cost analysis was Fred D. Orazio, the principal design engineer in the Aircraft Laboratory's Design Branch. In the 1950s, Orazio formed a group on the WADC staff that began to integrate weapon systems cost analysis with other aspects of WADC's planning functions. The reorganization of the Wright Field laboratories in the late 1950s and early 1960s resulted in placing cost analysis and weapon system design within the new systems engineering organization at Wright Field. There, as a result of a number of internal reorganizations in the course of the 1960s, they were more completely integrated with one another, first under the Directorate of Systems Engineering of the Wright Air Development Division (WADD) and, after 1961, in the Deputy for Systems Engineering of the Aeronautical Systems Division (ASD) . In 1963 ,the engineering function was realigned under a new Research and Technology Division (RTD) as the Systems Engineering Group (SEG). The beginnings of computerization in the 1960s allowed many more possibilities in vehicle design and analysis to be investigated, and in greater detail, than were previously possible . Planning by mission area was also instituted around this time and several significant "mission analyses" were accomplished to determine the most cost-effective system solutions to existing needs. In 1967 , RTD was abolished and the SEG once more became part of ASD as the division's Deputy for Engineering(ASD/EN) . In August 1967, the Deputy for Development Planning (ASB) was officially formed by combining the SEG's Directorate of Studies and Analyses (SES) with ASD's Deputy for Advanced Systems Planning. Within a year, the new organization became known as the Deputy for Development Planning with the symbol XR. Development Planning would remain a central part of ASD's weapon systems planning and development for the next three decades.
Source:
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom