Wolseley radial engines

[Apophenia]

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4492.msg35629.html#new

Hesham's find of a Parnall GP monoplane project has me wondering about Wolseley radial engines. Does anyone have access to "Wolseley Radial Aero Engines: Lord Nuffield's Thwarted Venture" by Peter Seymour?

Online sources are vague and mostly repetitive. I'm guessing that the Aries was of 40.5" diameter like the Aquarius (but 9-cylinder rather than 7-cyl).

What little I've been able to find:

Wolseley A.R.7 = Aquarius

Wolseley A.R.9 = Aries, eg: 200 hp A.R.9 powering Airspeed A.S.6 Envoy.

Wolseley Aquarius - 7 cylinder radial, 130 - 145 hp, 40.5" diameter, 4.1875 x 4.75"

Wolsesly Aries - 9 cylinder radial, 165 - 180 hp (later 200+ hp), 4.1875 x 4.75"

Wolseley Aries I - ??

Wolseley Aries II - ??

Wolseley Aries III - 9 cyl 225 hp (AS.6H Envoy)

Wolseley Scorpio I - 9 cyl 250 hp

Wolseley Scorpio II - 9 cyl 260 hp

This raises a few questions:

- What Aries variant was tested on the Parnall Hecks?

- What was the diameter of the Scorpio

I suspect that Mr. Seymour has the answers.

Image: http://aviationancestry.com/Engines/Wolseley/

 

[robunos]

putnam's Parnall just says '232hp Aries', Gunston's 'Aero Engines', sorry only have the first edition, says

"the A.R.7 and A.R.9 had respectively7 and 9 cylinders 4.1875 x4.75 in giving 130-145 and 165-180 (later over 200) hp. few were built."

cheers,
Robin.

 

[Apophenia]

So, A.R.7 is obviously Aquarius and A.R.9 is Aries.

Thanks Robin.

 

[robunos]

no probs,

cheers,
Robin.

 

[robunos]

This from 'British Light Aeroplanes - their evolution, development and perfection 1920-1940', Ord-Hume, 2000, page 594 :-

"The Wolseley Tool and Motor Car Company Limited began its interest in aero engines as early as 1907 and during the First World War they were prime manufacturers of Royal Aircraft Factory engines and Renault motors. The Spanish designed Hispano-Suiza water-cooled engine was also produced in quantity. At this time the business was styled Wolseley Motors Ltd.
After the war, aero-engine production ceased for almost a decade. Acquired in the mid-1920s by Sir William Morris (later to become Viscount the Lord Nuffield) the company was renamed Wolseley Motor (1927) Ltd. Managing director was William Cannell. Sir William Morris cherished the dream of making a cheap and practical light aircraft engine suitable for both civil and military use.
After having produced no aero-engines for some years, in 1931 the company began experimenting with nine-cylinder and seven-cylinder air-cooled radials.
First was the seven-cylinder 155 hp Aquarius of 1935 that led to the AR9 series that in turn led to the Scorpio engines used in the Airspeed Envoy. To act as test-beds, Wolseley bought three Hawker Tomtit aircraft in May 1933 and these air-tested a new series of Wolseley radials known as the AR.9 - not to be confused with Salmson's similar-sounding engine nomenclature. The prime difference between the Scorpio I and it developed engines is that the last two were made to run on 87 octane fuel.
The first public showing was in the 1933 King's Cup Race. In June of 1935, Wolseley Aero Engines Ltd was formed as a private company. This followed the acquisition (on July 1st) by Morris Motors Ltd of Wolseley Motors (1927) Ltd and the MC Car Co Ltd.
Wolseley's engines did not enjoy a wide following although they were reliable motors that were well-built and economic to run.
Lord Nuffield is remembered as a man who put a great deal of time, effort and money into aviation yet his rewards were few and far between. The authorities persisted in seeing him merely as a motor-car-maker. Lord Nuffield tried hard to revive his lighttplane motor concept after the 1939-45 war but that never got off the ground. "

Regarding the Heck engines, same source, page 440, says only,
"During 1936 it was proposed to offer a [Heck] variant with the 225hp Wolseley Aries radial engine, but this came to nothing.However, the fifth example, G-AEGI, was used as a flying test-bed for this motor."


Also, from the same source, page 595,


Name of Cyls Layout of Cooling Comp. Cubic Gear HP Max take-off Continuous Weight Lbs/
model [No] cylinders System ratio capacity ratio rating [hp/rpm] [hp/rpm] lbs hp

A.R.7 Aquarius 7 radial air 5.35 7,500 direct 155 170/2,475 155/2,250 375 2.42

A.R.9 Mk 1 9 radial air 5.3 9,654 0.63:1 203 200/2,475 185/2,200 452 2.22

A.R.9 Mk 2 9 radial air 5.3 9,654 direct 205 205/2,475 - 460 2.24

A.R.9 Aries MkIII 9 radial air 5.35 9,645 0.629 225 205/2,475 - 510 2.26

Scorpio I 9 radial air 6.5 10,540 0.629 250 250-2,475 230/2,475 538 2.4

Scorpio I I/III 9 radial air 6.5 10,540 0.629 250 250-2,475 230/2,475 538 2.4








cheers,
Robin.

 

[robunos]

Just found these in the May 1979 issue of 'Aeroplane Monthly', page 246 :-


cheers,
Robin.

 

[Bailey]

From "British Piston Aero-Engines and Their Aircraft, Alec Lumsden, Airlife, 1994"

Aquarius I, A.R.7, 155 hp. 7-cylinder, single row radial air cooled poppet-valve. Bore/stroke 4.188 x 4.75 in. Vol 458 cu in. Compression ratio 5.35:1. Direct R.H. tractor-drive. Most parts interchangeable with Aries engines. Diameter 40.25 in. Length 36.4 in. Fitted to Hawker Tomtit.

A.R.9 Mk I, 203 hp. (1934) 9-cylinder, single-row radial air cooled poppet valve engine. Bore/stroke 4.19 x 4.75 in. Vol 588.6 cu in, 9.654 litre. It was unsupercharged and its propellor drive was spur-geared, reduction .63:1. R.H. tractor drive. Compression ratio 5.3:1, Diameter 41.25 in. Length 38.25 in. Fitted to Hawker Tomtit and Airspeed A.S.6 Envoy I.

A.R.9 Mk II, 205 hp. Direct drive, minor variation of Mk I, higher rpm. Fitted to Hawker Tomtit.

A.R.9 Aries Mk III, 225 hp.(1935). 9-cylinder, single-row radial air-cooled, poppet-valve. Bore/stroke 4.198 x 4.75 in. Vol 588.6 cu in. Compression ratio 5.35:1. Single-speed geared induction fan for improved distribution with slight positive pressure at 3.8 times engine speed, giving a rated altitude of 5,000 ft. spur-epicyclic .629:1. R.H tractor-drive.Diameter 41.25 in. Length 42.0 in. Fitted to Airspeed A.S.6H Envoy.

Scorpio I, 205 hp, 9-cylinder, single-row radial air-cooled poppet-valve. Bore/stroke 4.375 x 4.75 in. Vol 643 cu in. Compression ratio 6.5:1. single-speed geared induction fan. Geared, spur-epicyclic .629:1. R.H tractor-drive. A slightly enlaged version of the Aries. Diameter 42.5 in. Length 42.2 in. Fitted to Airspeed A.S.6G Envoy I

Scorpio II & III 250 hp. Minor variations of Mk I but designed for 87 octane fuel. Fitted to Airspeed A.S.6 Envoy II and Airspeed A.S.6J Envoy III.

Regards Bailey

 

[alertken]

rob's post: Ord-Hume:The authorities persisted in seeing (Nuffield) merely as a motor-car-maker.
(Wm.Morris) Lord Nuffield organised his businesses such that Wolseley Aero-Engines Ltd, from June,1935 in Nuffield Mechanisations and Aero Ltd, was "his": he, not Morris Motors Ltd., would have funded building Aries/Scorpio in volume. On 7/4/1936 he declined to participate in Lords Weir and Swinton's scheme to "shadow" Bristol Mercury by component single-sourcing, all assembled by Austin: his position was that complete engines should be built by each of the auto firms; he also saw cost-plus auditing of firms as infringing “liberty” H.A.Taylor,Airspeed A/c,Putnam,70,P17. He offered a licenced Pratt R-1830 Twin Wasp; SecState for Air Swinton saw all this as turf war, Herbert Austin: William Morris, so sustained the Air Ministry "Ring" (ASM/Bristol/Napier/RR). Nuffield withdrew Wolseley Motors from aero-engine design 9/36, and remained aloof from Air shadow work until Swinton was replaced in May,1938; he then took Tiger Moth shadow work (Cowley) and Castle Bromwich Aircraft Factory.

 

[tartle]

I suggest that people interested in Wolseley Radials get the book "Wolseley Radial Aero Engines: Lord Nuffield's Thwarted Venture" by Peter Seymour as it is copious on details of the engines and the aircraft they were intended for... certainly with getting from the library, at least.

 

[alertken]

tartle: done and right you very are. The book covers more than Wolseley - try 1945 Nuffield licenced Franklin 4AL-225, then the 1946 Nuffield 100, intended to take on Continental.

The author, like Lord Nuffield himself, misunderstands the pricing issue which caused Wolseley to exit aero-engines, 8/36: "absurdities of (Air Ministry's) Instruction to Proceed (ITP) procedure". If Buyer believes he can satisfy himself on fairness of Bidder's price - such as by reference to a comparable item, Buyer signs a contract, with i dotted and t crossed. If he can't - and Public Buyers are spending our money - he takes a Bid price as a not-to-exceed, issues Instructions to Proceed, Price to be Agreed. What Nuffield failed to grasp is that Buyer hates doing so: it takes two to agree, and if Buyer arrives at what he thinks is fair, and (Buyer: error,corrected 14/1/23: ) Seller digs in for more...what can Buyer do? Cancel and waste Progress Payments? There is no comparable product: that's why the ITP was issued.

So there's a negotiation. That involves agreeing a fair proportion of the operating central expense of the plant, to be admitted into the price to be paid. "Overhead". That includes financing cost. Lord Nuffield paid for the Wolseley aero-engine exercise out of funds separate from Morris Motors, out of "his own funds". He had no intent to let a Govt. accountant grovel there. So that also made it impossible for AM to buy licenced Pratt R.1830 from the same plant.

From April,1939 UK introduced Armaments Profits Duty, and "compulsion", severely restricting non-War-Effort effort. Modest profit plus on all cost. Accountants conscripted to do real work. All Nuffield resources were poured into the Effort, no special pricing problem. But by then the only scope was to put some Merlin repair into Morris Motors and MG Car Co. Sir Hugo Cunliffe -Owen tried in 1937 to buy Wolseley Aero-Engines, but failed to raise the necessary.

 

[tartle]

Good!

 

[Borin Ferry]

tartle: done and right you very are. The book covers more than Wolseley - try 1945 Nuffield licenced Franklin 4AL-225, then the 1946 Nuffield 100, intended to take on Continental.

The author, like Lord Nuffield himself, misunderstands the pricing issue which caused Wolseley to exit aero-engines, 8/36: "absurdities of (Air Ministry's) Instruction to Proceed (ITP) procedure". If Buyer believes he can satisfy himself on fairness of Bidder's price - such as by reference to a comparable item, Buyer signs a contract, with i dotted and t crossed. If he can't - and Public Buyers are spending our money - he takes a Bid price as a not-to-exceed, issues Instructions to Proceed, Price to be Agreed. What Nuffield failed to grasp is that Buyer hates doing so: it takes two to agree, and if Buyer arrives at what he thinks is fair, and Buyer digs in for more...what can Buyer do? Cancel and waste Progress Payments? There is no comparable product: that's why the ITP was issued.

So there's a negotiation. That involves agreeing a fair proportion of the operating central expense of the plant, to be admitted into the price to be paid. "Overhead". That includes financing cost. Lord Nuffield paid for the Wolseley aero-engine exercise out of funds separate from Morris Motors, out of "his own funds". He had no intent to let a Govt. accountant grovel there. So that also made it impossible for AM to buy licenced Pratt R.1830 from the same plant.

From April,1939 UK introduced Armaments Profits Duty, and "compulsion", severely restricting non-War-Effort effort. Modest profit plus on all cost. Accountants conscripted to do real work. All Nuffield resources were poured into the Effort, no special pricing problem. But by then the only scope was to put some Merlin repair into Morris Motors and MG Car Co. Sir Hugo Cunliffe -Owen tried in 1937 to buy Wolseley Aero-Engines, but failed to raise the necessary.

It’s very worth while reading Nevil Shute Norway’s autobiography, ‘Slide Rule’, which goes into the cessation of the Wolseley aero engine manufacture. The government also tried to fetter Rolls-Royce, over Merlin (et seq) production. RR reacted by agreeing to the price only if the government paid for all the development costs. This was beneficial to RR, and upset the government.
I did have a conversation with my cousin, some years ago, about this, and the RB211 engine, I think it was, -which brought RR down. Carbon fibre turbine blades, which could cope with dead chickens but not ice. Regrettably, the Labour government gleefully ‘acquired’ RR, after RR employees offered to work without pay, to save the company. It is not the job of governments to own and run businesses. They can’t do it, it seems. Hence, most so-called British businesses belong to foreign companies, eg BMW, Renault, EDF….

 

[alertken]

BF: RR was Nationalised by Conservatives. (BAe. by Labour).

NS Norway was a founder of Airspeed, who sold out to shipyard Swan Hunter to access the capital needed to carve out a slice of Rearmament. His account of RR's production negotiations with Air Minister Swinton is just wrong.

All piston aero-engines, like all pop music, references/is influenced/inspired by/tributes a current product. PV12 had much Kestrel and, if Sir Richard Fairey (licensee of Curtiss D.12) is to be believed, chunks of his Felix derivation thereof. RR tried to take it PV to AM Type Test, failed and accepted our R&D money to get through and into production. By 1938 all new Munitions tooling, plant was paid for by us.

There is one simple reason attracting inward investment to UK: UK investors place little regard on stability, steady income over long periods. They want gratification NOW! or sooner. Not one, not one UK Board has ever recommended its shareholders to accept a foreign Offer..at the point of a gun. Some hostiles, of course - UK firms do that too, but no-one was ever forced to sell out to a foreigner. Directors recommend what they see as in the best interests of...shareholders, because that is our Law.

 

[OliverSedlacek]

Just read Neville Shute's auto biography which covered the withdrawal of the Wolseley engine, something I knew nothing about. A very interesting read all round,

 

[Nik]

Tangential, but my employers, a famous-name TLA in a very different industry, did a sorta reverse-merger with a big US group. They saw our company's vast cash-pile and stable earnings would cover the stampede of law-suits 'coming down their turn-pike'. Our board saw corporate pay and perks rocketing from EU to US scales, plus a six-lane freeway into US markets...

IIRC, the only major contrarian was our Research & Development Manager, who told the US guys where they could put their golden fleece --horns, hooves and all-- went off and started his own company. And, apparently, took much of our company's kudos and knack for winner-spotting along...

Of course, the US influence on new, improved TLA prompted much down-sizing here, which was how I came to take early retirement...

 

[Hood]

A long time to answer Apophenia's original question from 2008! I have recently acquired a copy of Peter Seymour's Wolseley Radial Aero Engines: Lord Nuffield's Thwarted Venture.

Its only a small book with a lot of appendices dealing with a variety of interconnected issues, though not directly about the engines themselves. There is however a lot of detail on the engines, including a far few not mentioned in Alec Lumsden's British Piston Aero-Engines, although Lumsden does admit that information was scanty. Seymour has certainly done some digging, he admits some sources are contradictory but he has attempted to outline the most reliable sources.

Before the First World War Wolseley offered a range of engines for marine and airship use and several for aircraft. None of these entered mass production and indeed during the war the company was building Royal Aircraft Factory, Renault and Hispano-Suiza engines under licence.

1908-10
30hp - 4 cyl inline, 1,100rpm, 3.98L
50hp - 8 cyl Vee, 1,350rpm, 7.24L - could have direct drive or reduction gear or gears/chain drive for twin propellers. Fitted to M. de Baeder's Voisin in 1909.

1911-12
60hp - 8-cyl Vee, 1,200rpm, 7.96L
120hp - 8-cyl Vee, 1,150rpm, 18.02L

1913-14
75hp- 8-cyl Vee, 1,800rpm, 7.96L - air cooling with water-cooled exhaust valves
90hp - 8-cyl Vee, 1,800rpm, 9.06L
130hp - 8-cyl Vee, 1,200rpm, 18.02L

The 75hp and 130hp engines would seem to be refined versions of the earlier 60hp and 120hp engines.

Great War Production
Renault - WB, WC, WX, WS
RAF - Ia, Ib
Hispano-Suiza - W.4A Python I, W.4A Python II, W.4A* Viper, W.4B Adder I & II, W.4B* Adder III
ABC - Dragonfly (1 built only)

1930s
A.R.7 Aquarius - 155hp, 7-cyl radial, 2,250rpm, 7.5L - note the second engine was tested on Hawker Tomtit G-ABOD was confusingly described by the company as the A.R.2 because it was the second engine of the A.R. series

A.R.9 Aries Mk I - 185hp, 9-cyl radial, 2,200rpm, 9.65L
A.R.9 Aries Mk II - 185hp, 9-cyl radial, 2,200rpm, 9.65L
A.R.9 Aries Mk III - 205hp, 9-cyl radial, 2,250rpm, 9.65L

Scorpio Mk I - 230hp, 9-cyl radial, 2,250rpm, 10.53L - originally named Taurus but Bristol just pipped them in registering the name!
Scorpio Mk II - 250hp, 9-cyl radial, 2,250rpm, 10.53L

Libra - 440hp, 9-cyl radial, 2,400rpm, 15.9L

Leo - 280hp, 9-cyl radial - further development of the Scorpio, project abandoned when Wolseley Aero Engines Ltd. wound up in 1936

Gemini - 565hp (at 6,000ft), 18-cyl 2-row radial, supercharged - was being tested and production prepared abandoned when Wolseley Aero Engines Ltd. wound up in 1936

Postwar
Seymour also includes details of the abortive 100hp Nuffield Aero engine developed by Morris Motors Ltd. and Auster's slightly earlier request for Nuffield to licence-manufacture the Franklin 4AL-225.