Viking 4 - Mars Surface Sample Return

[Graham1973]

1974 proposal by Martin-Marietta to modify the Viking lander to allow a Mars surface sample to returned in the early 1980s.

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19740022177_1974022177.pdf

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19750006729_1975006729.pdf

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19750006730_1975006730.pdf

 

[Archibald]

How did I missed that thread back then ? A Viking-MSR !

EDIT: the links are dead (Frank Wolf and chinese spy porn, how we HATE you !)

@Graham1973 did you saved the papers back then ?

 

[blackstar]

I did a quick search there under "Martin-Marietta Mars Sample Return" and came up with a few things, but it may not be what was linked earlier. If anybody finds them, please let us know.

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19760011102/downloads/19760011102.pdf

Note that this is a lesson even for non-NTRS stuff. Links disappear. Post the file or the image if you can, because a link could disappear in days, weeks, years.

 

[Archibald]

I've tracked down the "summary report" on the Internet archive. No luck for the other two !
According to graham posting on the link above,

Idea - Viking Derived Mars Sample Return

This might make for a challenging set of missions. The technical feasibility of achieving automatic rendezvous and docking in Mars orbit as a part of a surface sample return mission was investigated based on using as much existing Viking '75 Orbiter and Lander hardware as possible. Both 1981...

www.orbiter-forum.com

It corresponds to the (dead link) in the first post. http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19750006729_1975006729.pdf

Now attached to this post.

 

[Graham1973]

How did I missed that thread back then ? A Viking-MSR !

EDIT: the links are dead (Frank Wolf and chinese spy porn, how we HATE you !)

@Graham1973 did you saved the papers back then ?

I'll check the drive where I've backed up a lot of the stuff I've downloaded from the NTRS, will attach the files if I have them.

 

[Archibald]

Many thanks.

In passing, could you please check if you have that other Viking document ?

"Viking Spacecraft for Lunar Exploration - Case 340," R. Kostoff, M. Liwshitz, S. Shapiro, W. Sill, and A. Sinclair, Bellcomm, Inc., 30 June 1970.

I swear it was on the NTRS back then 2009 - because I cut and pasted part of it in a WORD file. But can't find it anymore on my HD nor on the NTRS of course. ROGNTUDJU !!

 

[Graham1973]

Here is a link to my backed up copy of, A Feasability Study of Unmanned Rendezvous and Docking in Mars Orbit, Vol. II: Technical Studies and Results.

The file is too big to attach directly to the post.

19750006730_1975006730.pdf | Powered by Box

app.box.com

And the internet Archive link for the summary report.

https://web.archive.org/web/2010052...casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19740022177_1974022177.pdf

 

[Archibald]

NASAspaceflight has much larger attachement than this forum, I suggest you post it there (but it's your decision of course).

 

[blackstar]

Just stumbled upon this in one of the documents. I'll have to read more about this. It's actually not a good way to do sample return because the return vehicle has to brake into Earth orbit and that requires a lot of delta-v and a lot of fuel. As engineers started to look at sample return in the late 1990s and then in the 2000s for a range of missions, they kept tossing away concepts until they eventually settled on having it just reenter and parachute to Earth, without even air catch (the reason being that they had to design the capsule to be intact if air catch failed, so air catch became redundant).

 

[Archibald]

The Shuttle had to be justified at any cost... this was an idiotic and very damaging policy, a lose-lose situation.
On the manned side it risked astronauts lives to launch satellites.
On the unmanned side it added a lot of constraints and thus cost in an already bleak era - the one between Voyager and Magellan.

The Shuttle made some sense as a space station crew and cargo taxi. Once the station was pushed from 1972 to 1984 ( to 1998 and 2010 in reality) the Shuttle new mission was just silly.

 

[blackstar]

 

[Archibald]

Found the three documents at last. Seems the Internet archive was smarter than Frank Wolf: the documents are still there, ready for chinese to download them.
Of course the third one is too big for this forum attachment system (sigh).

 

[Archibald]

Now that's something interesting... there are actually, not one but two documents discussing a lunar Viking.

David Portree brilliantly summarized that one

Viking Spacecraft for Lunar Exploration - Case 340," R. Kostoff, M. Liwshitz, S. Shapiro, W. Sill, and A. Sinclair, Bellcomm, Inc., 30 June 1970.

Bridging the 1970s: Lunar Viking (1970)

The story of spaceflight told through missions and programs that did not happen - that is, the great majority of them.

spaceflighthistory.blogspot.com

But there is another one: attached here for posterity. Because the two files almost drove me crazy until I understood they are not the same. ROGNTUDJU as would say Gaston Lagaffe (unfortunate) colleague Prunelle.

Post Apollo Lunar Exploration Case 105-1 FROM: R . N . Kostoff G. T. Orrok S. Shapiro W. R. Sill A. R . Vernon DATE: June 17 , 1970

Same author and very close dates. How about that.