Vickers SSM and other British Army projects

[RP1]

First up, the later version of the Vickers 35nm range rocket artillery system, here shown in the early evening, during an exercise in Southern England...

RP1

 

[uk 75]

I have always wondered what the Blue Water would have looked like when it entered service in the mid-60s.

I assume that the Privates on Parade style Bedford truck always shown would have given way to sexier vehicles like the Alvis Stalwart or the German MAN truck family in the 70s. How about some artwork?

UK 75

 

[RP1]

Well, this is something I find interesting. I remember reading something several years ago that showed a range of very futuristic looking British Army trucks, conceived during the "anything is possible" days of the 1960s, that would have been used for absolutely everything. The Vickers SSM and SAM designs in BSP4 again point to this, as the chassis is identified as being a standard 10 tonne vehicle.

I suspect that had this gone ahead the Stolly would never have happened. Of course, contrariwise perhaps the Stolly could have given birth to the standard chassis - the Alvis vehicle was supposedly mechanically quite complicated, though.

As for the German products, it is still a matter of much pondering for me which one produces the sexier big trucks - MAN or Faun.

Artwork will follow, but I want to try and improve my texture painting skills on this one (we need mud!).

RP1

 

[uk 75]

|I only mentioned the Stalwart because I have an old ad somewhere in my pile of cuttings from the early 60s from Interavia (a bad photocopy) for the Stalwart showing it used as Blue Water carrier and also as a SAM carrier (though the SAM is not the PT428 which I originally thought it was). I agree about the poor mechanics though. Perhaps the good old Bedford in its later MK form would have had to serve the British.

The Faun trucks were great but I think the vehicles used for Sergeant and Pershing (later on after the tracked version) were Magirus Deutz and a bit dull. The MAN won a high tech truck contest in the late 60s early 70s and would have given the BW a good cross country. Minitanks did a great Faun 105mm gun carrier with crane when I was at school.

Look forward to seeing your stuff.

UK 75

 

[uk 75]

Hi Joe

The ad is an Alvis one from about 1962 and appeared in the Interavia magazine about then it shows three drawings of the Stalwart: one with Blue Water, one with a SAM system and one with a Scout helo. I have only seen the ad in Interavia. I will try and find my copy, though it is only a poor photocopy.

I had read (in some books) that it was planned to mount the Blue Water on an FV 432 version. Given the large engine compartment and the lack of space in the back compared with the M548 (later used for Rapier) this must have been a strange vehicle. I really must get to the NAO some time. I still want to look at the Jumping Jeep files.

UK 75

 

[Barrington Bond]

RP1,

have you progressed with more CGI pics to share with us?

UK75,

did you ever find that ad?

Chiz,
Barry

 

[RP1]

have you progressed with more CGI pics to share with us?

Not yet - I got waylaid producing a higher-polygon model of the Vickers SSM chassis, but I think I'll just keep it low-poly and work up more images. I'm in "keep-alive" mode until about July - making enough posts to keep membership until I have time to actually do some CGI.

RP1

 

[mecanix]

I too would be fascinated to see an Alvis Blue Water TEL.
I once saw a copy of the original EE sales brocure produced for the Farnborough Airshow, of about 1961 and as I recall it only had the Bedford RL chassis version shown

 

[Barrington Bond]

Ta daa!

 

[RP1]

Now *that* makes me happy. I was planning some Stolly-based missile systems...

RP1

 

[Rickshaw]

The SAM system appears to be the Martin Mauler system.

 

[uk 75]

It may also be the abortive PT 438 SAM which the
British had to give up in favour of Mauler.

Interestingly the Stalwart mountings give some idea
of how a version of the FV432 might have been adapted
to do the same job.

UK 75

 

[JohnR]

What the hell is the point of landing a helicopter on the back of a truck???

 

[Rickshaw]

What the hell is the point of landing a helicopter on the back of a truck???

Perhaps for ease of servicing? Lack of suitable landing areas? There is a semi-famous picture of a Bell Sioux which landed on top of a Centurion Bridgelayer in Phuoc Tuy Province in SVN during the Vietnam War. It did so because the grass was so high there wasn't anywhere else suitable.

 

[Grey Havoc]

What the hell is the point of landing a helicopter on the back of a truck???

Perhaps for ease of servicing? Lack of suitable landing areas? There is a semi-famous picture of a Bell Sioux which landed on top of a Centurion Bridgelayer in Phuoc Tuy Province in SVN during the Vietnam War. It did so because the grass was so high there wasn't anywhere else suitable.

A number of VUAVs including the Japanese (Fuji) FFOS/FFRS family use that (trucks as pads) as part of their concept of operations.

By the way, RP1, I should have complemented you on your illustration in the first post earlier.

 

[Mark_Ellis]

...

I suspect that had this gone ahead the Stolly would never have happened. Of course, contrariwise perhaps the Stolly could have given birth to the standard chassis - the Alvis vehicle was supposedly mechanically quite complicated, though.

...

You need to understand the history of the FV600 range, the Stalwart of which was the 4th vehicle.
The Army didn't ask for the Stalwart to be designed, Alvis wondered what else they could use the FV600 Punt hull for after getting the Salamander chassis accepted for trials.
Yes, the FV600 are quite complicated - but not hard to service and maintain.

 

[Mark_Ellis]

|I only mentioned the Stalwart because I have an old ad somewhere in my pile of cuttings from the early 60s from Interavia (a bad photocopy) for the Stalwart showing it used as Blue Water carrier and also as a SAM carrier (though the SAM is not the PT428 which I originally thought it was). ...

UK 75

Alvis had a wonderful arts department.
Bear in mind that a 5 ton off road truck had not been asked for by the MOD, and whilst Alvis privately pushed ahead with their idea of the off road truck - they had to get the ideas to be seen by senior people who make buying decisions - hence advertisements.

if you take a closer look at the drawings of the Stalwart with the missile, etc - it's a very early version of Stalwart PV2, with the sliding hatch. The hatch idea was binned as it was too heavy and awkward to open and close from inside the cab



Here's the early version with the hatch open

 

[Mark_Ellis]

What the hell is the point of landing a helicopter on the back of a truck???

At the Farnborough Air Show in 1961, Alvis had a helicopter land on the back of PV1, followed by the Wessex helicopter (with the Alvis engine) tow PV1 and two trailers down the runway
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKwh-kiuuu0&list=PLnzJyGITf0nV7I6vHCVd3y2py6YBZZ1hN&index=36