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Grey Havoc

The path not taken.
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Grey Havoc

The path not taken.
Senior Member
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Grey Havoc

The path not taken.
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Foo Fighter

I came, I saw, I drank some tea (and had a bun).
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I wonder, how long must we relive the past and why do we do it? Is it really a good idea to go over the same part of our history over and over? Personally speaking, while we must remember the lessons of the past (Which we patently do not), perhaps we really should be concerned with making sure the flaura and fauna of this planet can be sustained into the future, while making certain that the systems and people running the show for profit are not allowed to do so. The Star Trek utopia perhaps?
 

zen

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
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Ahhh Betrayal of Half of Europe Day!
What a wonder, we go to war for Poland and then hand them over to the gentle mercy of comrade Stalin.
 

Foo Fighter

I came, I saw, I drank some tea (and had a bun).
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The state most of the so called allied nations were in made confronting Stalin and his troops unlikely to say the least. Whether it was a betrayal or not depends on your point of view. In my opinion, a strong showing of force might have reduced the timescale for soviet involvement in eastern europe but the stated aim was a buffer zone to secure soviet borders proper. A fudge to say the least by a lot of war weary people.
 

Grey Havoc

The path not taken.
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I think Churchill and Roosevelt both realised long before VE Day that they had blundered grievously at Yalta.

On another note:
 

nuuumannn

Cannae be ar*ed changing my personal text
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Something I posted on another forum. Berlin: 8 May 1945: In the leafy suburb of Karlshorst in the city's south east, in this incongrouous building at the end of Zwieselerstrasse, World War Two in Europe officially came to an end. In this building, the Soviet Army signed away control of East Germany with the ratification of the DDR in the former RLM building in October 1949. Now, thanks to the Soviets, it is a museum, one of the best in the city, that tells the story of the Great Patriotic War against Nazi Germany, the capture of the city by the Soviet Army and the impact of all that on its hapless citizens.

Europe 321

In this room, representatives of the Wehrmacht, Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe - the OKW des Heeres HQ'd at the Bendlerblock, now a memorial to plots against the Nazi regime on Stauffenburgstrasse, signed the document that ended the war. It was a ratification of the existing agreement made the day before in Rheims, which is the official reason behind the scurrying of officials from France, to Flugplatz Tempelhof and through the devastated ruins of the city centre to this largely untouched corner of the Reich, but unofficially, the reason for the reconvening at Karlshorst was Stalin. After the signing of the official surrender document at Rheims on 7 May 1945, insisted on by General Eisenhower, who stated that if the Germans did not surrender unconditionally, then bombing of Germany would resume, Stalin was furious. How could the Allies force the Germans to sign a document of surrender with little Soviet participation, after what the Soviet people had been through? That night, everyone was packed into aircraft and flown to Berlin. The room is almost exactly as it was on 8th May 1945, save for the carpet allegedly pilfered from the ruins of the Reichskanzlei on Vossstrasse. Much of the furniture is not original however.

Europe 322

Here is where the representatives of the Allied countries sat, indicated by their national flags. From left, representing General Eisenhower, the British delegate was Air Chief Marshal Sir Arthur Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander of the Allied Expeditionary Force, The Soviet delegate was Marshal Georgy Zhukov, formal representative of the Red Army Supreme High Command, the United States delegate was General Carl Spaatz, Commander of the United States Strategic Air Forces as a witness, and the French delegate was General Jean de Lattre de Tassigny, Commander of the First French Army, as a witness.

Europe 323

Here is where the Germans sat. From Marshal Zhukov's diary, "The first to enter, slowly and feigning composure, was Generalfeldmarschall [Wilhelm] Keitel, Hitler's closest associate. Keitel was followed by Generaloberst [Hans-Jurgen] Stumpff. he was a short man whose eyes were full of impotent rage. With him entered Generaladmiral [Hans-Georg] von Friedeburg who looked prematurely old. The Germans were asked to take their seats at a separate table close to the door through which they had entered. The Generalfeldmarschall slowly sat down and pinned his eyes on us, sitting at the Presaedium table. Stumpff and von Friedeburg sat down beside Keitel. The officers accompanying them stood behind their chairs."

Europe 324

The German Instrument of Surrender Document as signed by those present, in a display case in the room.

Europe 325
 
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