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Various Vought VTOL/VSTOL/STOL projects

elider

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Vought Aircraft Heritage Foundation art of VTOL aircraft 1969--no other info.
 

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sferrin

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elider said:
Vought Aircraft Heritage Foundation art of VTOL aircraft 1969--no other info.

Some of the features on that ended up in the Vought V/FX entry it looks like.
 

Skybolt

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Well, Elider, tell us more of the Vought Heritage Foundation.. :eek: Seems we must make them honorary members of the forum ;) They have a lot of material!
 

elider

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They are a group of Vought retirees who volunteer to work at the Foundation. Vought has given them responsibility for their archives. Their latest project is to restore a WWII Corsair at a cost to them of $400,000. Contributions welcome.
I emailed Vought asking for photos or drawings of the V1100 (ironically, they didn't send me this). Vought referred me to the Foundation. I called them and on a hunch asked if anyone knew the late Jay Frank Dial (a Vought model maker and a friend of mine when i was stationed at Carswell AFB, Texas, 1962-1966). The guy on the other end of the phone was a close friend of Jay and we started an email conversation. That brings us to today. Jay built some of the VFAX and the SAMI model shown on this forum previously.
He sent me several 35mm slides of some of Jay's models--A-7, F-8 and WWII aircraft. Nothing exotic yet but there is a possibility he may send me more. Problem is I don't have the capability to scan slides nor to down size them from over 2megs to a size for posting.
 

frank

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I realize this is the wrong forum, should be the Early Projects, but then again, it may have been barely post WWII or borderline, do you suppose these Vought folks would have any info on what I understand was the 'original' F6U design, which was a twin engined recip fighter similar to the Grumman F7F? I'd also like to see more on Vought's entry against the Grumman S2F. (Which, IMHO, from the pic I've seen of the mockup, looks like a mixture of S2F, E-2 & a touch of OV-1. :) )



elider said:
They are a group of Vought retirees who volunteer to work at the Foundation. Vought has given them responsibility for their archives. Their latest project is to restore a WWII Corsair at a cost to them of $400,000. Contributions welcome.
I emailed Vought asking for photos or drawings of the V1100 (ironically, they didn't send me this). Vought referred me to the Foundation. I called them and on a hunch asked if anyone knew the late Jay Frank Dial (a Vought model maker and a friend of mine when i was stationed at Carswell AFB, Texas, 1962-1966). The guy on the other end of the phone was a close friend of Jay and we started an email conversation. That brings us to today. Jay built some of the VFAX and the SAMI model shown on this forum previously.
He sent me several 35mm slides of some of Jay's models--A-7, F-8 and WWII aircraft. Nothing exotic yet but there is a possibility he may send me more. Problem is I don't have the capability to scan slides nor to down size them from over 2megs to a size for posting.
 

Skybolt

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Three hooras for the Vought retirees! All the world is an hamlet: the same is happening with the SIAI Marchetti archives. It is managed with my help by the retirees...
 

Mark Nankivil

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A few more of what I have on the VTOL side of Vought - should have paid attention and place the HSV designs elsewhere.

Enjoy the Day!
 

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flateric

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Some concepts from September 1979

"V/STOL Aircraft Design Sensitivity to Flying Qualities Criteria Study."
Corporate Author : CHANCE VOUGHT CORP DALLAS TX
http://handle.dtic.mil/100.2/ADA358711
 

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Mark Nankivil

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Nice find Gregory - thanks for the link!

BTW - did you get the last drawing I sent you?

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

flateric

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Yup, Mark! Bunch of thanks as always! I continue to wonder of productivity of Vought brain workshop...zillion of various configurations...
 

hesham

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Hi,

Who can ID this Vought helicopter and VTOL projects ?,there is some
data about many projects but the words are too small.

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19690016189_1969016189.pdf
 

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hesham

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Hi,

the previous pictures,number 7 and 8 may be it was V.537,and here is
anther LTV STOL aircraft.

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19740017435_1974017435.pdf
 

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hesham

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Hi,

please look to those projects from Vought,I suggest that (only my opinion);
the Picture 2 may be V.464,the picture 3 may be V.465 and the picture 5
may be V.485.
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19670005609_1967005609.pdf
 

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robunos

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re:- 5-1 and 6.jpg....
an ADAM airliner, that's a new one for me...


cheers,
Robin.
 

hesham

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By the way,

in the first post,the early three drawings had the Vought
type number,but the pictures are not clear.
 

Stargazer2006

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All I can read there is:

Figure 3-26
3-65/66

Figure 3-27
3-67/68

Figure 3-28
3-69/70

So these are not Model numbers, only image numbers related to the text they appeared in.

Of much greater interest in the caption of picture #4, which says: "General Arrangement HLH 20(?)-ton."
It seems that this Vought design may have been submitted for the HLH competition against Boeing Vertol's and Sikorsky's designs.
 

hesham

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Hi Stargazer,

the write on the drawings is not clear,and for HLH,the US Department
of Defense issued to nine companies for HLH,only five responded.

Also in the second post,you can read in the report; Drawing PD-111,
and in the drawings NASA Model PD-111,I can't explain it ?.
 

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InvisibleDefender

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Mark Nankivil said:
Greetings All -

A few scans of photos found in the archives but not sure which model it is. Any suggestions?

Enjoy the Day! Mark

Looks like US/UK ASTOVL study work....
 

Jemiba

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The references in the paper (thanks for the link !) seem to accredit this design to
M.Kretz, probably a frenchman, judging the title of the mentioned source. ;)
 

Stargazer2006

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Jemiba said:
The references in the paper (thanks for the link !) seem to accredit this design to
M.Kretz, probably a frenchman, judging the title of the mentioned source. ;)

No need to guess, just look at the very first page of the report. It says: "Advisory Group for Aerospace Research and Development - Paris, France"... ;)
 

Stargazer2006

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Sorry, the best confirmation of the fact he is French (or at least worked for a French company at the time) is in the very title of the article itself:

FIELDS OF APPLICATION OF JET FLAPPED ROTORS
by
M.Kretz
Chief Engineer
Giravions Dorand
Suresnes, France


Dorand may not be a household name, but it definitely used to be one of the few aircraft companies specialized in rotorcraft design.

Also, the text says: "The VTOL stoppable-rotor aircraft is the third example illustrating the field of application of jet-flap rotors (Fig. 14). The project presented here is a particular case of projects effected under contract for the Centre de Prospective et d'Evaluation (CPE). corresponding to a VTOL craft with a stoppable and stowable rotor (Ref. 10)."
 

Stargazer2006

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More tidbits on the Dorand jet-flap concept and the LTV collaboration. It seems that the U.S. Army showed some interest at some point:
 

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Stargazer2006

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It is not a very-well known part of U.S. aircraft history, but L.T.V.'s Vought Aerospace division once studied helicopter designs.

During the 1960s, several companies such as LTV (Vought), Giravions Dorand, Bölkow Entwicklungen KG, and the Hughes Co. all provided concepts for a materials update in the ejection of cold, warm and/or hot cycle air.

Instead of working seperately, LTV and the French Giravions Dorand came to a co-operative agreement over a common development of flap-rotor (teetering rotor) technology, with interest from the U.S. Army for high-speed helicopters and a NASA study contract. Dorand's jet-flap DH.2011 rotor, in which used gas was ejected through slots in each blade's trailing edge, was thoroughly tested by NASA.

Vought designed several large helicopter projects for the Army's High Speed Helicopter (HSH) and High Lift Helicopter (HLH) competitions, which were to rely heavily on Dorand's rotor technology. Dorand and Vought also studied compound aircraft with retractable rotors (a configuration also studied by Lockheed and Sikorsky).

Early in the 1970s, LTV set up a separate Vought Helicopters entity, marketing French helicopters such as the SA 316 Alouette III and the SA 341 Gazelle. This didn't last for long, and LTV sold its helicopter division to Aerospatiale, when they first attempted to set up shop on U.S. soil.
 

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Stargazer2006

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Some info from period magazines:
 

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Stargazer2006

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More details about the Vought Helicopter Incorporated (VHI) venture:

VHI had been organized in 1969 as a wholly owned Subsidiary of LTV Aerospace Corporation. The plan was to market, sell, and support the French Aerospatiale line of helicopters in the U S and Canadian markets. The intent was to lead VHI into becoming a prime helicopter company and participate in new helicopter designs in cooperation with Aerospatiale for both commercial and military markets world wide. At the end of 1973 LTV Aerospace decided to sell the VHI assets to Aerospatiale and in January of 1974 a new subsidiary, consisting of VHI assets was formed as a wholly owned subsidiary of Aerospatiale. It was named Vought Helicopter Corporation, (VHC), and Jake Benner was elected president. In 1976 VHC was renamed Aerospatiale Helicopter (AHC).

Source: http://www.voughtaircraft.com/heritage/peoplaces/html/bbenner.html
 

Jemiba

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The Jet-Flap-Rotor was actually tested :


A remark in our own account:

- The kind of source citation by Stargazer in post #12 seems to me a very good one indeed and I'll try
to use it for my own posts in the future ! Clear, avoiding confusion and the source is saved just by
downloading the picture. ;) Please remember, that the boring task of giving the source can avoid copy right issues. And probably some of you still remember, that this site already was down for several days because of such issues !

(- I split the Vought/Vought-Dorand posts from the rather general "US VSTOL Projects" thread (which I think I will lock for the benefit of more special threads) and tried to clean it up a bit to avoid double posts.)
 

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Stargazer2006

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A picture formerly posted by Mark Nankivil in a now defunct topic:
 

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Stargazer2006

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Please use the generic (titles beginning with "Various...") such as this one:
  • For generic images or information.
  • For types that are either unidentified or improperly identified
  • For types that you have too little information about (one picture, a couple of lines).
Use the specific (per model) topics for all the rest!
  • Vought ADAM and ADAM II V/STOL projects [link]
  • Vought (LTV) V-517 and V-520 Sea Control Ship (SCS) fighters [link]
  • Vought (LTV) V-530 and V-534 (US Navy "Type A" proposals) [link]
  • Vought (LTV) TF-120 V/STOL Tandem Fan Fighter [link]
  • Vought (LTV) SF-106 and SF-121 « Superfly » VATOL fighters [link]
  • Vought V-3010 Sealifter: Extreme STOL Amphibious Transport [link]
  • Ling-Temco-Vought XC-142A V/STOL tilt-wing turboprop transport prototypes [link]
 

Stargazer2006

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Certainly not a genuine company item, but seems reasonably accurate on the whole. It depicts the TF-102 Tandem Fan V/STOL fighter project.
 

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Thiel

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LTV P916 VSTOL tiltwing transport
I found this project in Airforce Legends #213.
I've done quite a bit of searching, but so far I've been unable to find anything else about it.
 

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Thiel

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Thanks. I'm trying to gather enough material to do a proper profile drawing so if anyone have anything on it I'd be more than happy to see it.
 

Stargazer2006

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Thiel said:
Thanks. I'm trying to gather enough material to do a proper profile drawing so if anyone have anything on it I'd be more than happy to see it.

Given the similarities between the P916 and the XC-142, I wonder if this design could have been drafted during the SOFTA studies. In a recent thread I shared the Scaled Composites TIDDS proposals, which Burt Rutan studied for LTV under SOFTA with the thought of combining features from both the C-142 and V-22. This here aircraft looks a lot more conventional but it could have been an LTV study for the same program prior to Rutan's involvement. Just my two cents at this stage.
 

sublight is back

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Vought low observables air vehicle engineering study 1981

LOAVES....
 

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Thiel

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Stargazer2006 said:
Thiel said:
Thanks. I'm trying to gather enough material to do a proper profile drawing so if anyone have anything on it I'd be more than happy to see it.

Given the similarities between the P916 and the XC-142, I wonder if this design could have been drafted during the SOFTA studies. In a recent thread I shared the Scaled Composites TIDDS proposals, which Burt Rutan studied for LTV under SOFTA with the thought of combining features from both the C-142 and V-22. This here aircraft looks a lot more conventional but it could have been an LTV study for the same program prior to Rutan's involvement. Just my two cents at this stage.
I suppose that's possible, but it seems rather large for the purpose. It's the size of a C-130J.
 

Stargazer2006

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Thiel said:
I suppose that's possible, but it seems rather large for the purpose. It's the size of a C-130J.

You are right. My mistake.

This is a four-engine project, sort of a scaled-up XC-142.
 

sublight is back

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From the 1981 LOAVES study linked above...

Either I'm crazy, or they built an RCS model from the LOAVES study.....

Uh no....
 

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Stargazer2006

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Interesting comparison, but there are notable differences. The trailing edge behind the engine exhausts is diamond-shaped on the RCS model, not on the LOAF-11. Also the fins are much closer at the tips, and the wings are not pointed.
 
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