hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,550
Reaction score
6,287
Hallo,

some Gotha projects:
P.35 twin engined transport aircraft,P.39 three engined transport aircraft,P.40
asymmetric transport aircraft and P.46 assault glider.
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,550
Reaction score
6,287
Hi,

Gotha Go-244A was single engined twin boom transport aircraft,a
version of Go-244.
 

Jemiba

Moderator
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,361
Reaction score
1,599
"Nice photo of Go 242 A-2"

Here are two photos of the mentioned Go 242 testbed :
(from LUFTFAHRT monographie LS2)
 

Attachments

  • Go-242_Zentralrumpf_01.JPG
    Go-242_Zentralrumpf_01.JPG
    38.8 KB · Views: 1,308
  • Go-242_Zentralrumpf_02.JPG
    Go-242_Zentralrumpf_02.JPG
    28.6 KB · Views: 1,245

redstar72

Soviet Aviation enthusiast
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
519
Reaction score
75
Has anybody some info about this project? Is it real? Very beautiful aircraft, resembling He 112B which I like very much. And this picture is too different from actual Go 149 prototypes, as they are shown at http://www.histaviation.com/Gotha_Go_149.html.
 

Attachments

  • Go 149.jpg
    Go 149.jpg
    47.5 KB · Views: 1,949

Jemiba

Moderator
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,361
Reaction score
1,599
Comparing the two pictures, I would think, that the one from "Aircraft of the Luftwaffe"
is just a redrawn version of the one from histaviation.com, done with a bit of phantasy,
changing the shape of the nose and fitting a retractable landing gear. The Göppingen
Gö 9, for example, looks more elegant, than the real thing, too. ;)
 

Attachments

  • Go-149.jpg
    Go-149.jpg
    34.6 KB · Views: 1,313

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,550
Reaction score
6,287
Hi,


here is the Gotha P.40 asymmetric light transport aircraft project;


http://www.oocities.org/asymmetrics/go40.htm
 

Attachments

  • Go P.40.jpg
    Go P.40.jpg
    17.5 KB · Views: 819
  • Go P.40 model.gif
    Go P.40 model.gif
    20.7 KB · Views: 109

Jemiba

Moderator
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,361
Reaction score
1,599
Go 149 and P.16

In "Der Flieger", March 1961, I've found 3-views of the Gotha Go 149 and the P.16-001 a development
of the P.149 into a light fighter.
Two prototypes of Go 149 were actually built as single seat advanced fighter trainer. The type wasn't
ordered into production, nevertheless Gotha offered a modified version, the Go 149 L as light fighter
and ground attack aircraft. The original retractable landing gear was replaced by a fixed type and
instead of the Argus As 10C an As-411 would have been used.
The next step as a light fighter was the P.16-001, again fitted with a retractable landing gear.

data:

Go 149: span 7.8 m, length 7.31 m, speed 345km/h,
P.16: span 8.5 m, length 7.96 m, speed 350km/h, armament 2 m guns (probably 20 mm)
 

Attachments

  • Gothat_P-16_01.jpg
    Gothat_P-16_01.jpg
    45.9 KB · Views: 148
  • Gothat_P-149L_01.jpg
    Gothat_P-149L_01.jpg
    118.8 KB · Views: 140
  • Gothat_P-149_01.jpg
    Gothat_P-149_01.jpg
    79.4 KB · Views: 137

Jemiba

Moderator
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,361
Reaction score
1,599
Gotha P-4 trainer

From "Der Flieger", March 1961 a 3-view of the P-4-003, a development of the Go 145
with folding wings and single strut landing gear.
Given data: Span 11 m, length 9.5 m, height 3.5 m, Argus As-17A engine
 

Attachments

  • Gotha_P-4_01.jpg
    Gotha_P-4_01.jpg
    52.6 KB · Views: 173

Jemiba

Moderator
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,361
Reaction score
1,599
Gotha P-3 Destroyer

From "Der Flieger", March 1961, two versions of the P-3 destroyer, the first, -001, with a span of 16m
and a length of 11.1 m, the second -002, slightly larger with gull wings and a span of 17 m and a length
of 12.8 m,. Both were driven by fuselage mounted Jumo or DB engines, driving the propellers via shafts.

 

Attachments

  • Gotha_P-3-001_01.jpg
    Gotha_P-3-001_01.jpg
    44.1 KB · Views: 184
  • Gotha_P-3-002_01.jpg
    Gotha_P-3-002_01.jpg
    43.2 KB · Views: 190

Wurger

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
992
Reaction score
142
Great, Jens, thanks for sharing! I didn`t know about the P-4-003. Is it wishful thinking or that P-4-003 has an arrester hook?
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,550
Reaction score
6,287
Amazing projects my dear Jemiba,


and for P.16,it was powered by one 465 hp Argus As-410 engine.
 

Jemiba

Moderator
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,361
Reaction score
1,599
Gotha P-9, Training- and Sportsaircraft

P-09, sports and traing aircraft.

P-9-001: Training aircraft, powered by a 4 cylinder HM-60R engine, length 8 m, span 8.8 m
P-9-007: Sports aircraft, powered by BMW Xa radial engine, length 7.05 m, span 10.4 m
 

Attachments

  • Gotha_P-9-007_01.jpg
    Gotha_P-9-007_01.jpg
    61.3 KB · Views: 144
  • Gotha_P-9-001_01.jpg
    Gotha_P-9-001_01.jpg
    60.6 KB · Views: 140

Jemiba

Moderator
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,361
Reaction score
1,599
Gotha P-10 Touring-/Light Transport AIrcraft

An improved version of the Go 150, the P-10-003 would have had more powerful engines,
a span of 11.20 m, length 7.40 m, two seats.
 

Attachments

  • Gotha_P-10-003_01.jpg
    Gotha_P-10-003_01.jpg
    62 KB · Views: 128

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,550
Reaction score
6,287
Many great thanks to you my dear Jemiba,


and for the P.10,it was powered by two 240 hp Argus As 10C engines.
 

Wurger

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
992
Reaction score
142
Hei Jens, keep uploading Gotha projects, please, if there is more in that magazine!
 

Jemiba

Moderator
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,361
Reaction score
1,599

Attachments

  • Gotha_P-8_001.jpg
    Gotha_P-8_001.jpg
    69.8 KB · Views: 687

Jemiba

Moderator
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,361
Reaction score
1,599
Gotha P-11, Training Aircraft

2-seat training aircraft with side-by-side seating, powered by a 100 hp HM-504 eingine,
length 6.46 m, span 10.4 m, height 1.76 m. developed to participate in the NSFK competition
(1938 ?) for a modern ab-initio trainer.
 

Attachments

  • Gotha_P-11-001_01.jpg
    Gotha_P-11-001_01.jpg
    65.1 KB · Views: 667

Jemiba

Moderator
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,361
Reaction score
1,599
Gotha P-12, Touring Aircraft

P-12-001, pre-study for the Go 241 private touring aircraft. Powerd by two 100 hp
engines (type not mentioned), length 6.4 m, span 12 m
 

Attachments

  • Gotha_P-12-001_01.jpg
    Gotha_P-12-001_01.jpg
    59.7 KB · Views: 650

Jemiba

Moderator
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,361
Reaction score
1,599
Gotha P-17, Training Aircraft

Single seat training aircraft, especially for flying clubs, Zündapp engine,
length 6.15 m, span 7.5 m, height 1.55 m
 

Jemiba

Moderator
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,361
Reaction score
1,599
Gotha P-21, Training Aircraft

Developement of the P-17 with larger wing and more powerful engine, intended as
aerial target, too. ength 9.8 m, span 15.3 m, height 2.1 m
 

Attachments

  • Gotha_P-21-005_01.jpg
    Gotha_P-21-005_01.jpg
    54.2 KB · Views: 652

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,550
Reaction score
6,287
My dear Jemiba,you made my day;


and P.17 was powered by one 50 hp Zundapp 092 engine,and P.21 was powered by
one 100 hp HM 504 engine.
 

Wurger

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
992
Reaction score
142
Thanks, Jens, for sharing your stuff. That makes me eager to share something too! I guess I`ll go to the naval projects forum...
 

lark

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
1,811
Reaction score
122
You hit a Bonanza Jens..!

Many thanks.
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,550
Reaction score
6,287
Hi,


the P.46,a twin boom high wing light transport monoplane,it was powered by one Jumo 200 enginemounted in the nose,and had a fixed tricycle undercarriage.
 

Attachments

  • P.46.png
    P.46.png
    57.4 KB · Views: 531

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,550
Reaction score
6,287
From Jet & Prop 6/1998,


here is the Gotha Go-147 original design 3-view with its mock-up,and the Go-147 V.2
which never pass a drawing board,with the actually built.
 

Attachments

  • Go-147 V.1  actually built.png
    Go-147 V.1 actually built.png
    683.6 KB · Views: 138
  • Go-147  V.2.png
    Go-147 V.2.png
    773.7 KB · Views: 146
  • Go-147  original muck-up.png
    Go-147 original muck-up.png
    1.1 MB · Views: 141
  • Go-147  original.png
    Go-147 original.png
    892 KB · Views: 133

Retrofit

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
615
Reaction score
165
Thanks Hesham for those drawings!

In his book "The planes of the Third Reich" Edition 1986, William Green mentionned that the Go-147 "was considered as () an aerodynamic test-bed for a projected twin-engined fighter with fore and aft power plants".

Is there more information available on this Gotha push-pull fighter project?
 

Wurger

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
992
Reaction score
142
Retrofit said:

"In his book "The planes of the Third Reich" Edition 1986, William Green mentionned that the Go-147 "was considered as () an aerodynamic test-bed for a projected twin-engined fighter with fore and aft power plants".

Is there more information available on this Gotha push-pull fighter project?"

Well put, Retrofit! That would be very interesting to know. This aircraft company has no historian, I believe, although it had much history behind. Take AGO, for instance: it had a much smaller pat in german aerospace industry, but is going to have a full dedicated book by August.

Fieseler, Siebel, Bücker, Klemm are also interesting companies lacking published references, at least covering projected aircraft types.
Does anyone know about incoming books on these ( or other german related ) subjects?
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,550
Reaction score
6,287
Thank you my dear Retrofit,


and for my dear Wurger,if we don't have a drawing to this push-pull fighter project,
we can imagine its shape,who can do that ?.
 

Jemiba

Moderator
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,361
Reaction score
1,599
hesham said:
... we can imagine its shape,who can do that ?

With no data apart from the similarity to the Go 147 and the statement, that it would have had
a push-pull engine arangement (at least, that's what I would suppose), we would have to guess
around 95 %. Could have been similar to the Westland Pterodactyl V/VI, with the rear turret
replaced by a pusher engine, but that's just a wild guess, too.

Wurger said:
Does anyone know about incoming books on these ( or other german related ) subjects?

There's "Flugzeuge der GWF Gothaer Waggonfabrik AG", for example here
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Flugzeuge-GWF-Gothaer-Waggonfabrik-AG-Air-Plane-Luftfahrt-/221460591945
and as that site shows some pages, including the index, I've saw a chapter "Projekte" (projects)
mentioned. But if it really contains interesting news, I don't know. But perhaps someone else ?
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,550
Reaction score
6,287
OK my dear Jemiba,


but just a sketch may be.
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,550
Reaction score
6,287
From; Secret Nazi Aircraft 1939 -1945 Luftwaffe's Advanced Aircraft Projects


they mention that the Gotha P.43 was a fighter and I think that is a misprint (P.53),but in
the description of it,they speak about Gotha P.49,as a fighter of course,I never heard about
it at all ?.
 

Attachments

  • P.49.png
    P.49.png
    33.2 KB · Views: 916

Avimimus

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
2,081
Reaction score
248
So, six Argus pulsejets to extend glide range, air-brakes, a parachute and a retro-rocket??? Ah... interesting.


The part I wonder about is using the pulse-jets: How fuel efficient could they be? How much money is saved through having six of them (instead of one conventional engine)? How much power was this expected to produce? Would the vibrations interact well with the retro-rocket......?


The part I don't wonder about is the crazy part.
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,550
Reaction score
6,287
I am very confuse,

and that's more stranger,if it was a misprint,how he change Horten IX into Gotha P.49 ?! ,
so maybe there is unknown project to us,couldn't be ?.
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,550
Reaction score
6,287
For Gotha P.49,


I can't judge until we ask David Crocker himself about his source,if he said;it's a misprint or a mistake,
then I can say,there is no P.49.
 

newsdeskdan

ACCESS: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2014
Messages
1,169
Reaction score
973
hesham said:
For Gotha P.49,


I can't judge until we ask David Crocker himself about his source,if he said;it's a misprint or a mistake,
then I can say,there is no P.49.

What does the rest of Crocker's ebook tell you about his sources? Does he seem like a paragon of reliability in other areas? I've had that ebook a long time - I was one of the first to buy it. Then he took it down, then put it back with more Wiki stuff in it (I bought it again). Then it was altered a third time with more web links in it. Yeesh.
 

Stargazer2006

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,221
Reaction score
857
newsdeskdan said:
Oh, and here are the images referred to in the report:

Truly, I say, you are spoiling us, newsdeskdan!

newsdeskdan said:
Another contemporary drawing that might suit this topic: (not from German Aircraft: New and Projected Types this time).

Thanks! There is actually a topic on the subject here: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2733.0
where this would best belong (the "Various..." topics are for types we don't have a lot about or which don't have a topic yet).
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,550
Reaction score
6,287
Hi,

in 1937,the Luftwaffe announced for a competition to produce a ground attack airplane,
the tenders were; Focke-Wulf FW.189,Henschel P.46 (later Hs.129,the winner),Blohm
and Voss P.40 and Gotha P.?,who know the Gotha proposal ?.
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,550
Reaction score
6,287
hesham said:
Hi,

in 1937,the Luftwaffe announced for a competition to produce a ground attack airplane,
the tenders were; Focke-Wulf FW.189,Henschel P.46 (later Hs.129,the winner),Blohm
and Voss P.40 and Gotha P.?,who know the Gotha proposal ?.

To be honest,

I am anther search and discovered that,the Gotha did not respond to this contender
after they asked it.

HS129 Panzerjager
 

Attachments

  • 1.png
    1.png
    139.7 KB · Views: 605

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,550
Reaction score
6,287
The P.50 I drawing.
 

Attachments

  • 1.png
    1.png
    72 KB · Views: 488

Similar threads

Top