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USAF/US NAVY 6th Generation Fighter Programs - F/A-XX, F-X, NGAD, PCA

sferrin

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Apparently the Biden Administration decided they're better off without Roper. So that happened.
 

In_A_Dream

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Apparently the Biden Administration decided they're better off without Roper. So that happened.
Such is life for anyone serving under the Trump Administration, for better or for worse. Thankfully revoking the institution of the US Space Force is virtually irreversible at this point. It's kind of sad, it's not like the issues that were addressed and the push forward with Next-Gen military hardware under Trump were a negative for the future of the United States. Roper was part of those initiatives, initiatives members our current legislature stood behind while vilifying the administration.

On topic - Do you think NGAD & PCA efforts will be merged?
 

Sundog

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On topic - Do you think NGAD & PCA efforts will be merged?

More so than they are now? No. They will use similar power plants and systems. The airframes will be different. Combining the two would be exceptionally stupid given the very differing roles the USAF and USN fly with regard to their primary fighter missions.
 

In_A_Dream

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On topic - Do you think NGAD & PCA efforts will be merged?

More so than they are now? No. They will use similar power plants and systems. The airframes will be different. Combining the two would be exceptionally stupid given the very differing roles the USAF and USN fly with regard to their primary fighter missions.
Are you thinking of the F/A-XX?
 

sferrin

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Apparently the Biden Administration decided they're better off without Roper. So that happened.
Such is life for anyone serving under the Trump Administration, for better or for worse. Thankfully revoking the institution of the US Space Force is virtually irreversible at this point. It's kind of sad, it's not like the issues that were addressed and the push forward with Next-Gen military hardware under Trump were a negative for the future of the United States. Roper was part of those initiatives, initiatives members our current legislature stood behind while vilifying the administration.

On topic - Do you think NGAD & PCA efforts will be merged?
What I don't get is he started under Obama, as I recall, so he'd have had that going for him. Hopefully bigger brains prevail and he'll be back.
 

bring_it_on

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One of NG NGAD public concepts
Can you say us where this picture come from?, the design of the NGAD look some big f-35 like design. Northrop could be the builder of the demonstrator.....

There is no naval demonstrator. The Navy has barely completed its AOA and seems to be heading towards a more traditional acquisition model as opposed to the "Digital Century Series" path that the Air Force has committed to (for now).
 

Moose

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Apparently the Biden Administration decided they're better off without Roper. So that happened.
Such is life for anyone serving under the Trump Administration, for better or for worse. Thankfully revoking the institution of the US Space Force is virtually irreversible at this point. It's kind of sad, it's not like the issues that were addressed and the push forward with Next-Gen military hardware under Trump were a negative for the future of the United States. Roper was part of those initiatives, initiatives members our current legislature stood behind while vilifying the administration.

On topic - Do you think NGAD & PCA efforts will be merged?
What I don't get is he started under Obama, as I recall, so he'd have had that going for him. Hopefully bigger brains prevail and he'll be back.
He wasn't a political appointee until 2018, before then he was a conventional employee in various offices. My understanding is that Roper could have stayed in his role past Jan 20th until there was a new nominee, just as Undersecretary Roth as stayed and is now acting SecAF, but chose to resign when it was indicated that he would not be retained permanently. That said, the President hasn't nominated a new SecAF and it's possible the new one, or even SECDEF Austin, could offer a position to Roper.
 

bring_it_on

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Roper name was being thrown about amongst a list of few folks for Ellen Lord's acquisition position. That would certainly make sense given his deep acquisition background and would be a major promotion.
 

dark sidius

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One of NG NGAD public concepts
Can you say us where this picture come from?, the design of the NGAD look some big f-35 like design. Northrop could be the builder of the demonstrator.....

There is no naval demonstrator. The Navy has barely completed its AOA and seems to be heading towards a more traditional acquisition model as opposed to the "Digital Century Series" path that the Air Force has committed to (for now).
Sure I agree but this picture show a Navy NGAD not USAF one. Or may be they work for the two services on the same platform? In this time we see Northrop pictures , on the Darpa Longshot and now on the Navy NGAD I have the feeling that Northrop could be the leader in military plane for 21th century.
 

bring_it_on

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One of NG NGAD public concepts
Can you say us where this picture come from?, the design of the NGAD look some big f-35 like design. Northrop could be the builder of the demonstrator.....

There is no naval demonstrator. The Navy has barely completed its AOA and seems to be heading towards a more traditional acquisition model as opposed to the "Digital Century Series" path that the Air Force has committed to (for now).
Sure I agree but this picture show a Navy NGAD not USAF one. Or may be they work for the two services on the same platform? In this time we see Northrop pictures , on the Darpa Longshot and now on the Navy NGAD I have the feeling that Northrop could be the leader in military plane for 21th century.

The Navy wants to get ready to accelerate its NGAD starting FY-22 and beyond, so it is logical for Northrop's marketing to highlight a next gen. naval fighter. Boeing has been doing it for like a decade if not more its normal behavior. :). Of course whatever may exist now is just notional art since the Navy is barely out of the AoA and needs to establish formal requirements to which Northrop, and others will design to.
 

flateric

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Fluff

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bring_it_on

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They should have showcased it on the deck of a Ford class carrier.
 

TomcatViP

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Josh_TN

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An F-35 doesn't have a significantly lower fly away cost than a new build F-16 or F-18 at this point. It probably does have much a higher per hour flight cost. But then you have to weigh that against the costs of new design R&D and parts/training stream, which I think would quickly swallow any operational savings.

If you need a 4+ gen aircraft, buy more F-15s. It's in production, training and parts are somewhat established (I assume the new models vary pretty violently from C's in avionics), and there is already a major buy of them for AD purposes anyway. If you just need something for ground attack, you can festoon air to ground ordnance on it like a christmas tree.
 
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rooster

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So what is so affordable about designing a great fighter and cancelling it after building 180? Then building another greater fighter and cancelling that? Good lord if they had just stuck with the F22 in the first place... Braindead Washington DC is back in full force I see. Ok so by 2030 we will be flying a less advanced fighter prototype after spending hundreds of billions to develop the worlds best fighters and cancelling them.

Then, oh my goodness the threats have advanced and we need something better.

Gotta waste my tax dollars on something, right? Business as usual is back in business with president Harris.
 

helmutkohl

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So what is so affordable about designing a great fighter and cancelling it after building 180? Then building another greater fighter and cancelling that? Good lord if they had just stuck with the F22 in the first place... Braindead Washington DC is back in full force I see. Ok so by 2030 we will be flying a less advanced fighter prototype after spending hundreds of billions to develop the worlds best fighters and cancelling them.

Then, oh my goodness the threats have advanced and we need something better.

Gotta waste my tax dollars on something, right? Business as usual is back in business with president Harris.
wasn't Gates the one that cancelled the F-22?
 

Bhurki

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So what is so affordable about designing a great fighter and cancelling it after building 180?
F22 isnt the so called open-architecture compliant. That means it takes a hell lot more time to push upgrades and newer block standards than they want to, both software and hardware wise.

It is a single mission jet made specifically for OCA, with other mission sets being satisfied partially as a result of intersection of capabilities required.
So, it might seem as if its a really good platform to conduct S/DEAD missions, but then you're using it for something that utilizes only a fraction of its capabilities for a high operating cost.

Lets stop beating the pentagon and the budget for curtailing the production. They wanted to enjoy their time after USSR fell.
 

rooster

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So what is so affordable about designing a great fighter and cancelling it after building 180? Then building another greater fighter and cancelling that? Good lord if they had just stuck with the F22 in the first place... Braindead Washington DC is back in full force I see. Ok so by 2030 we will be flying a less advanced fighter prototype after spending hundreds of billions to develop the worlds best fighters and cancelling them.

Then, oh my goodness the threats have advanced and we need something better.

Gotta waste my tax dollars on something, right? Business as usual is back in business with president Harris.
wasn't Gates the one that cancelled the F-22?
Gates, Cheney, Bush... Hell even James Comey who was at Lockheed... Yes *that* James Comey. It was finished for good with captain Obozo who ignored USAF pleas to keep it going. Basically all of DC. MSNBC and radio Air America did hit pieces claiming the usaf botched the 22 so badly that raptor pilots couldn't talk to pilots in other airplanes. The 22 was stillborn in 1997 in favor of the jsf which is turning into a case of sudden infant death.

No one seems to be capable of dancing with the date they brought to the dance as long as there is just one more dollar they can waste and stretch out the legacy fleet till they are held together with bubblegum and tape. The chicoms must be laughing themselves to sleep every night.
 

NeilChapman

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One of NG NGAD public concepts
Maybe I'm just seeing what I want to see in that image but that design looks like it might have some F-23 DNA in the mix.
Agreed :) makes sense.

First thing I saw as well. The chine, high canopy (although not the rear view of the YF-23), the distance back to the leading edge of the wing, and the angle of the stabilizer. I like it.

I'd love to see NG build NGAD. It's not like they don't have the experience. They are responsible for the F-5, A-10, F-18, built fuselage's for F-18's and F-35's, and designed and built the YF-23. Their production expertise w/F-35 will serve them well w/B-21 - and by extension, NGAD. Perhaps NG for one branch and LM for the other?

Frankly, with NGAD I'd like to see a complete change in how we fly. When I drive a Tesla, the first thing I do on the freeway is pull that stalk down twice (engage autopilot). Autopilot removes all the basic requirements for driving. I "pilot" for exceptions. The same is possible for flying. I should be able to point the system to a place in space and the jet will take me there, best speed, handling all avoidance issues. I should be able to "join up" with other jets and the system should manage our separation, speed, etc, so we don't have to think about it at all. Refueling at tankers should be automated. These are no-brainers. If an F-35C can automatically land so precisely that they had to code in offsets to not prematurely wear a flight deck then surely "full self flying" is attainable. But perhaps this is already happening?
 

sferrin

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So what is so affordable about designing a great fighter and cancelling it after building 180? Then building another greater fighter and cancelling that? Good lord if they had just stuck with the F22 in the first place... Braindead Washington DC is back in full force I see. Ok so by 2030 we will be flying a less advanced fighter prototype after spending hundreds of billions to develop the worlds best fighters and cancelling them.

Then, oh my goodness the threats have advanced and we need something better.

Gotta waste my tax dollars on something, right? Business as usual is back in business with president Harris.
wasn't Gates the one that cancelled the F-22?
Gates, who was advised by a jilted Gordon England.
 
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