USAF/US NAVY 6th Generation Fighter Programs - F/A-XX, F-X, NGAD, PCA, ASFS

TomS

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USMC doesn't have a single carrier. US navy has catobsr carriers and ships capable of servicing stovl planes.
USMC planes can and do operate from US navy ships.

To elaborate a bit, some Marine squadrons operate conventional cat-and-trap aircraft (F/A-18 and F-35C) from Navy aircraft carriers (CVNs) as part of Navy airwings. In addition, some Marine squadrons fly STOVL aircraft (AV-8 and F-35B) from Navy amphibious assault ships (LHA/LHD) as part of an embarked Marine Air Combat Element.

No US service operates STOBAR aircraft from any ships.
 

stealthflanker

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Forest Green

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The challenge will always be heat. GaN can convert more power to RF wave.. in smaller package than GaAs but ... with big power comes big heat flux.
Carbon nanotubes are very good heat dissipaters, but then I'm still waiting on those 1THz CPUs that were supposed to be possible with them.
 

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isayyo2

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Nice to see Dr. Roper being mentioned still
 

TomcatViP

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We still have to make it real and there’s a lot to do in the program, but when you see what is going on, and you hear it from the Airmen who are flying it, you get a chance to really understand where we’re going.
... Another controversial quote!
 

jsport

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Getting more thrust out of conventional turbo fans is likely reaching diminishing returns for skyrocketing costs.

Range is going nowhere for the size. No hypersonic, PBW, lg rng cannon, extreme dynamic maneuver, or high altitude capability and or low altitude efficient infil....The thing is going to be yawn..Its iterations are likely going to be a yawn. The 4.5 gen and F-15EX may have to do.

Majors are not going to deliver on risk...DoD has to risk by looking outside the LSIs. Unlikely..

Even building a yawn is waste of time n $. Build a bunch of components creatures...We are way out from integrated nex gen systems...
 
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rooster

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We still have to make it real and there’s a lot to do in the program, but when you see what is going on, and you hear it from the Airmen who are flying it, you get a chance to really understand where we’re going.
... Another controversial quote!
To me it sounds like flying it means a combination of the physical demonstrator and maybe something like the avionics are being developed on the catbird.
 

Forest Green

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Getting more thrust out of conventional turbo fans is likely reaching diminishing returns for skyrocketing costs.
Variable cycle will optimise thrust relative to airspeed though, so you can effectively have a high BPR at low speeds and a lower one at high speeds. Material science also moves pretty fast with new alloys that allow higher TETs.
 

jsport

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Getting more thrust out of conventional turbo fans is likely reaching diminishing returns for skyrocketing costs.
Variable cycle will optimise thrust relative to airspeed though, so you can effectively have a high BPR at low speeds and a lower one at high speeds. Material science also moves pretty fast with new alloys that allow higher TETs.
sound like mods to existing turbofans ...molecules flow just so fast unless one starts inducing them w/EM or exotic fuels etc etc..toward hypersonic....
 

Forest Green

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Getting more thrust out of conventional turbo fans is likely reaching diminishing returns for skyrocketing costs.
Variable cycle will optimise thrust relative to airspeed though, so you can effectively have a high BPR at low speeds and a lower one at high speeds. Material science also moves pretty fast with new alloys that allow higher TETs.
sound like mods to existing turbofans ...molecules flow just so fast unless one starts inducing them w/EM or exotic fuels etc etc..toward hypersonic....
Higher TET allows a higher jet velocity and a higher intake velocity, not hypersonic though (nowhere near yet anyway). For hypersonic you can use a precooler with an inert gas and drive the turbine with that inert gas once heated by precooler, whilst you mix the air with fuel and ignite it before sending it straight out the nozzle, as per SABRE.
 

jsport

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Getting more thrust out of conventional turbo fans is likely reaching diminishing returns for skyrocketing costs.
Variable cycle will optimise thrust relative to airspeed though, so you can effectively have a high BPR at low speeds and a lower one at high speeds. Material science also moves pretty fast with new alloys that allow higher TETs.
sound like mods to existing turbofans ...molecules flow just so fast unless one starts inducing them w/EM or exotic fuels etc etc..toward hypersonic....
Higher TET allows a higher jet velocity and a higher intake velocity, not hypersonic though (nowhere near yet anyway). For hypersonic you can use a precooler with an inert gas and drive the turbine with that inert gas once heated by precooler, whilst you mix the air with fuel and ignite it before sending it straight out the nozzle, as per SABRE.

Getting more thrust out of conventional turbo fans is likely reaching diminishing returns for skyrocketing costs.
Variable cycle will optimise thrust relative to airspeed though, so you can effectively have a high BPR at low speeds and a lower one at high speeds. Material science also moves pretty fast with new alloys that allow higher TETs.
sound like mods to existing turbofans ...molecules flow just so fast unless one starts inducing them w/EM or exotic fuels etc etc..toward hypersonic....
Higher TET allows a higher jet velocity and a higher intake velocity, not hypersonic though (nowhere near yet anyway). For hypersonic you can use a precooler with an inert gas and drive the turbine with that inert gas once heated by precooler, whilst you mix the air with fuel and ignite it before sending it straight out the nozzle, as per SABRE.
would make Ngad worth it, as stated much earlier in this thread.
 

Sundog

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A hypersonic NGAD has to be the dumbest vehicle I've ever heard of, as it wouldn't have persistence, stealth, or maneuverability and I would have to wonder how well any sensors might work on it at those speeds. Even hypersonic missiles have issues with targeting. Now, maybe a limited set of hypersonic strike/long range interceptors that can use offboard targeting for enemy stealth bombers and long range prompt strike with a man-in-the-loop, I could see missions like that making some sense. But definitely not for NGAD.
 

bobbymike

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A hypersonic NGAD has to be the dumbest vehicle I've ever heard of, as it wouldn't have persistence, stealth, or maneuverability and I would have to wonder how well any sensors might work on it at those speeds. Even hypersonic missiles have issues with targeting. Now, maybe a limited set of hypersonic strike/long range interceptors that can use offboard targeting for enemy stealth bombers and long range prompt strike with a man-in-the-loop, I could see missions like that making some sense. But definitely not for NGAD.
Agree, with current and constantly improving weapon accuracy, having a manned hypersonic fighter makes no sense.
 

Forest Green

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Yeah, hypersonic would also mean that it pretty much has to fly at that speed nearly all the time to make it worth it, as per the SR-71 and Mach 3. At subsonic speeds a plane designed for Mach 5+ would be a dog, I also don't believe there's any such thing as a small hypersonic manned aircraft, or even a fighter-sized one, the fuel load would be massive and deploying weapons at Mach 5+ would be ridiculous, especially if the weapons weren't even designed for that speed, which most aren't. The IR and even UV signature would also make it not stealthy in the slightest. The wing profile of such an aircraft would also mean ridiculously long landing strips and forget naval deployment.
 

jsport

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Fairly basic information but good animation of the various 6G concepts uploaded here at SPF

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GWDYX6oJlSg
As stated a yawn and absurd. FA-xx is different requirement. NGAD survivability requires the ultimate high ground, ultimate warning, ultimate stand-off ie near space. Air Dominance is to defend against ICBMs, IRBMS, Hypersonic cruise , Hypersonic Ballistic etc.
 

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flateric

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Register free at AW site, it doesn't give you access to AWIN stuff but to more stuff than unregistered users.
 
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