US AL-6 ROCKET

[klem]

On a French website, I found a picture showing an American copy of the German A-9 rocket with the designation AL-6 (What is AL-6).

 

[KJ_Lesnick]

That's pretty cool.

 

[klem]

So far the closest thing to the subject I've found on the net is this.http://www.v2werk-oberraderach.de/Irrtuemer/5-I.htm

 

[klem]

Sometimes you find things at home that you've forgotten .On one of my hard drives,i found this, but from where,i downloaded it . nada.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Sometimes you find things at home that you've forgotten .On one of my hard drives,i found this, but from where,i downloaded it . nada.

Ummm... no. The A-4 (and thus A-9) rocket was only 1.65 meters in diameter. No packing a manned capsule like that into it. The dimensions are hard to read, but this thing seems to claim a diameter in excess of 2 meters.

It's fictional.

 

[klem]

Sometimes you find things at home that you've forgotten .On one of my hard drives,i found this, but from where,i downloaded it . nada.

Ummm... no. The A-4 (and thus A-9) rocket was only 1.65 meters in diameter. No packing a manned capsule like that into it. The dimensions are hard to read, but this thing seems to claim a diameter in excess of 2 meters.

It's fictional.

Following my post #4 concerning an A9 II Bemannt, here is a Drawing of two-men A9-II reported by Heinz Stoelzel a captain in the Wehrmacht assigned to the Rocket-Bomb Plant at Peenemuende and quoted by (Todd H.Rider page 3969 in his book "Forgotten Creators"), this bibliographic reference was introduced to the forum by an SPF member "williamjpellas". See threads "Prüfstand XII: submarine launched V-2 rockets".

 

[Orionblamblam]

Following my post #4 concerning an A9 II Bemannt, here is a Drawing of two-men A9-II ...

 

[Hood]

Rocket-Bomb Plant at Peenemuende and quoted by (Todd H.Rider page 3969 in his book "Forgotten Creators"), this bibliographic reference was introduced to the forum by an SPF member "williamjpellas". See threads "Prüfstand XII: submarine launched V-2 rockets".

Yeah that book was thoroughly demolished in another thread as being completely unreliable and even intentionally misleading and fabricated.

 

[Dilandu]

Considering that von Braun got arrested due to rumors that he is more interested in spaceflight, thah in ballistic missiles, the mere idea that Penemunde could do any work on manned suborbital flight is... frankly, absurd.

The only - slight - possibility this picture could be real, is that its a post-war concept, quickly invented by some German engineer to make himself appear more valuable for Americans/Russians.

 

[Grzesio]

Heinz Stoelzel a captain in the Wehrmacht assigned to the Rocket-Bomb Plant at Peenemuende

Stoelzel was actually a captain/lieutenant of the Luftwaffe (ok, still a branch of the Wehrmacht ), who presented a concept of an unguided AA rocket in 1942. Some limited tests of his rockets, which were developed by Stoelzel without appropriate support or control from higher instances, were conducted in mid 1943 in HAP, then he was allegedly sent to the front for combat trials, which were completely unsuccessfull and the project was halted.

 

[Dilandu]

It should be noted, that a lot of so-called "German next generation rockets" could be actually a post-war concepts. German engineers tried rather desperatedly to make themselves looks valuable for US/USSR. Presenting some futuristic-looking concept, and claiming that "we worked on it before the war end, but all data was captured by the other guys, so you better hurry giving me a working place" was a simplest way to attract interest.

A good example is Hugo Schmeisser, who presented himself to USSR as some kind of genius gunsmith. Only much later Soviet engineers found with annoyance, that Hugo have very little valuable knowledge, and besides some consultations about industrial processes, he is essentially useless

 

[Grzesio]

But Schmeisser was a well known personality at least.
Stoelzel was, in turn, just no-one, so he could easily want to invent the most incredible projects, just to be considered as a valuable designer by the Allies. Another such a person, we discussed some time ago, was Nils Larsson with his Zugspitze rocket - specifications and performance of the rocket, as he stated it, are such full of nonsense, I'm really amazed no-one has immediately noticed it.

 

[Dilandu]

But Schmeisser was a well known personality at least.
Stoelzel was, in turn, just no-one, so he could easily want to invent the most incredible projects, just to be considered as a valuable designer by the Allies.

Exactly. It's a perfectly plausible explanation, that actually explains a lot of puzzling irregularities, like abovementioned -

The A-4 (and thus A-9) rocket was only 1.65 meters in diameter. No packing a manned capsule like that into it. The dimensions are hard to read, but this thing seems to claim a diameter in excess of 2 meters.

 

[williamjpellas]

Rocket-Bomb Plant at Peenemuende and quoted by (Todd H.Rider page 3969 in his book "Forgotten Creators"), this bibliographic reference was introduced to the forum by an SPF member "williamjpellas". See threads "Prüfstand XII: submarine launched V-2 rockets".

Yeah that book was thoroughly demolished in another thread as being completely unreliable and even intentionally misleading and fabricated.

Which you "know", because you have personally and closely read and studied the book, its bibliography, and the endorsements of a number of prominent people, none of whom is remotely part of the conspiracy kook fringe. Right?

 

[williamjpellas]

Sometimes you find things at home that you've forgotten .On one of my hard drives,i found this, but from where,i downloaded it . nada.

Ummm... no. The A-4 (and thus A-9) rocket was only 1.65 meters in diameter. No packing a manned capsule like that into it. The dimensions are hard to read, but this thing seems to claim a diameter in excess of 2 meters.

It's fictional.

Following my post #4 concerning an A9 II Bemannt, here is a Drawing of two-men A9-II reported by Heinz Stoelzel a captain in the Wehrmacht assigned to the Rocket-Bomb Plant at Peenemuende and quoted by (Todd H.Rider page 3969 in his book "Forgotten Creators"), this bibliographic reference was introduced to the forum by an SPF member "williamjpellas". See threads "Prüfstand XII: submarine launched V-2 rockets".

There were a number of proposals in the years immediately after WWII for the building of V-2 variants that could have carried at least one man into space. One of these, "Megaroc", was produced by the British Interplanetary Society. NASA scientists who studied the Megaroc proposal in later years stated that it was a good decade ahead of its time and otherwise a perfectly viable design.

Megaroc

 

[Orionblamblam]

Which you "know", because you have personally and closely read and studied the book, its bibliography, and the endorsements of a number of people who, I am quite certain, are far better educated than you are. Right?

None of that counters "this book is bunk." I've personally seen with my own eyes the value of "endorsements" of books... I saw an author whom I do not respect write a glowing testimonial to his own book, slide a printout of the text across the desk to a Respected Person who merely glanced at it, signed it and went on about his day. The "endorsement" was dutifully printed on the back of the book as being from Respected Person.

Plus: One need not read all of a multi-thousand-page book on a subject to dismiss it more or less out of hand. How many errors need to be displayed before you set the whole thing aside? Level of effort has no relationship whatsoever to do with accuracy of claims, as the history of vast amounts of publishing on topics like Ancient Aliens and Apollo Hoaxes and Holocaust Denial and Pink Taxes and Wage Gaps and Flat Earths attest.

 

[williamjpellas]

Which you "know", because you have personally and closely read and studied the book, its bibliography, and the endorsements of a number of people who, I am quite certain, are far better educated than you are. Right?

None of that counters "this book is bunk." I've personally seen with my own eyes the value of "endorsements" of books... I saw an author whom I do not respect write a glowing testimonial to his own book, slide a printout of the text across the desk to a Respected Person who merely glanced at it, signed it and went on about his day. The "endorsement" was dutifully printed on the back of the book as being from Respected Person.

Plus: One need not read all of a multi-thousand-page book on a subject to dismiss it more or less out of hand. How many errors need to be displayed before you set the whole thing aside? Level of effort has no relationship whatsoever to do with accuracy of claims, as the history of vast amounts of publishing on topics like Ancient Aliens and Apollo Hoaxes and Holocaust Denial and Pink Taxes and Wage Gaps and Flat Earths attest.

Uh huh. And how much of the book have you read? Care to offer any specifics about which documents you think are fraudulent, or misused, or wrongly cited? Which specific passages in Dr. Rider's writing are equivalent, to your mind and august, impeccable credentials, to "topics like Ancient Aliens and Apollo Hoaxes and Holocaust Denial and Pink Taxes and Wage Gaps and Flat Earths"?

You won't offer any specifics because you haven't read Rider. Period.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Care to offer any specifics about which documents you think are fraudulent, or misused, or wrongly cited?

My time arguing with fanatics is basically over. Shoulda come at me bro back in 2003 or so. *Then* I would have had time to waste on arguing back and forth about something that need not be argued about. But now I'm too busy and too tired to waste time better spent on something else. *Anything* else.

 

[Hood]

Rocket-Bomb Plant at Peenemuende and quoted by (Todd H.Rider page 3969 in his book "Forgotten Creators"), this bibliographic reference was introduced to the forum by an SPF member "williamjpellas". See threads "Prüfstand XII: submarine launched V-2 rockets".

Yeah that book was thoroughly demolished in another thread as being completely unreliable and even intentionally misleading and fabricated.

Which you "know", because you have personally and closely read and studied the book, its bibliography, and the endorsements of a number of prominent people, none of whom is remotely part of the conspiracy kook fringe. Right?

I gave my review of the aviation chapter last August. I don't intend to waste any more time debating its contents or literary and historic value.

 

[williamjpellas]

Rocket-Bomb Plant at Peenemuende and quoted by (Todd H.Rider page 3969 in his book "Forgotten Creators"), this bibliographic reference was introduced to the forum by an SPF member "williamjpellas". See threads "Prüfstand XII: submarine launched V-2 rockets".

Yeah that book was thoroughly demolished in another thread as being completely unreliable and even intentionally misleading and fabricated.

Which you "know", because you have personally and closely read and studied the book, its bibliography, and the endorsements of a number of prominent people, none of whom is remotely part of the conspiracy kook fringe. Right?

I gave my review of the aviation chapter last August. I don't intend to waste any more time debating its contents or literary and historic value.

Right, so you know without knowing. Got it. Have a nice day, sir.

 

[Clioman]

In the FWIW category, the drawing appears to be dated in August 1945...

 

[Orionblamblam]

Right, so you know without knowing. Got it.

It's a perfectly valid approach when dealing with a lifespan of limited duration. If someone presents you with a thousand-page tome on, say, the Hollow Earth Theory, claiming that Earth is a hollow shell and that, in fact, *we* are living on the inside... do you need to read all 1,000 pages and check all 500 of its references before you go "nah?"

 

[Orionblamblam]

In the FWIW category, the drawing appears to be dated in August 1945...

About the same time a lot of Germans were inflating their resumes as a way to get in good with the US Army. It was starting around this time that von Braun started making claims about the A-11 and A-12 and a space station... claims that, to my knowledge, have never been backed up with verified wartime documentation or even testimonials from other German rocketeers.

 

[Dilandu]

It's a perfectly valid approach when dealing with a lifespan of limited duration. If someone presents you with a thousand-page tome on, say, the Hollow Earth Theory, claiming that Earth is a hollow shell and that, in fact, *we* are living on the inside... do you need to read all 1,000 pages and check all 500 of its references before you go "nah?"

Russian geologist Obruchev in 1915 wrote rather good novel "Plutonia" about expedition into hollow Earth, inhabitated by lifeforms (mammoths, dinosaurs, giant ants) long-extinct on the surface. On the foreword he stated that everyone know, the Earth is quite obviously NOT hollow, but he was impressed by Jules Verne's "Voyage to the center of the Earth" and decided to use hollow Earth premise for an educational novel, which would describe cotemporary knowledge about extinct species (he apparently knew nothing about Burrough's "Pellucidar").

 

[Dilandu]

About the same time a lot of Germans were inflating their resumes as a way to get in good with the US Army. It was starting around this time that von Braun started making claims about the A-11 and A-12 and a space station... claims that, to my knowledge, have never been backed up with verified wartime documentation or even testimonials from other German rocketeers.

Exactly.

 

[Sherman Tank]

All this talk of manned V-2 rockets and nobody mentioned the Schwarzgerät?

 

[Grzesio]

Schwarzgerät

What is this?

 

[Sherman Tank]

Schwarzgerät

What is this?

A thing from a famous V-2-adjacent novel.

 

[justajeepguy]

A thing from a famous V-2-adjacent novel.

I've been trying to read that book for over a year now.