Unknown ship designs for the Basque Country

[Regg]

Hi all!
In one work dedicated to the Spanish Civil War (Euzkadiko Gudontzidia. La Marina de Guerra Auxiliar de Euzkadi (1936-39), Juan Pardo San Gil), information was found regarding the plans of the Basque government to strengthen its armed forces, including the navy.
Two interesting projects were proposed.
The Basques were going to build patrol ships and boats of project 677 and project 678. I drew a view of one of them (proyecto "numero 677").
It was based on (as the Basques planned in principle) the project of a patrol ship built at a shipyard in Bilbao for the Mexican Navy (project "G").

 

[Regg]

El proyecto, conocido como “número 677”, asignaba a estos guardacostas unas dimensiones de unas 220-240 toneladas, 53 metros de eslora, 5’5 de manga y 1’67 de calado; una velocidad de 25 nudos y un armamento de 2 cañones de 75 mm., uno a proa y otro a popa, 2 ametralladoras antiaéreas de 25 mm. en un montaje doble y 2 tubos lanzatorpedos. Debía llevar una tripulación de 23 hombres.

The project, known as "number 677", assigned these coastguards dimensions of about 220-240 tons, 53 meters long, 5.5 wide and 1.67 draft; a speed of 25 knots and an armament of 2 cannons of 75 mm., one at the bow and the other at the stern, 2 anti-aircraft machine guns of 25 mm. in a twin mount and 2 torpedo tubes. It was to carry a crew of 23 men.

***
This is how the ship turned out (I came up with the name myself.):

 

[Hood]

Personal design moved to Theoretical, Fake and Speculative thread.

 

[Regg]

Personal design moved to Theoretical, Fake and Speculative thread.

I fully agree with you.
For those who would be interested to see other options based on "proyecto 677" follow the link:

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/fictional-patrol-vessel-for-the-basque-country.39862/#post-546703

 

[Regg]

The second project indicated in the work of the Spanish author "lanchas cañoneras proyecto 678" (marked in green) - it seems to me not real, but I will try to draw it.

 

[ptdockyard]

Understanding it is a conjectural drawing, so often the case is we have a description but no drawing. I have to model a number of very interesting designs based upon how I think they would have looked.

Dave

 

[JWilly]

That'd be a difficult location for the AA.

 

[Regg]

That'd be a difficult location for the AA.

I also think that the 76.2/45mm AA Mod. SS will be heavy for these ships. It weighs almost 3 tons.
But I have another guess.
You can see it in the new picture.

 

[Regg]

Ready!
Here is another option.
Since 76.2/45-mm Mod. SS guns are heavy, they can be replaced with others. They were also made in Gipuzkoa. This is the 76.2/34-mm Mod. FF . The weight of the launches is about 2 tons.
The same guns were on the battleship "Jaime I".

About torpedo tubes.
As I think the Basque engineers could use the old 450-mm mounts from the torpederos "Norman".

 

[JWilly]

1936 was almost the end of the period when naval designers thought that medium-altitude level bombers were the key air threat to naval vessels, so 75mm-class guns were a key naval AA armament.

By 1935, elements of at least the French Marine Nationale were aware that the greater threat to small vessels in any forthcoming war was going to be strafers and lower-altitude bombers, and the priority in AA armament needed to be autocannons in the 20mm to 40mm caliber range. Responsive to that understanding, the French firm Hotchkiss designed their twin 37mm L/70 autocannon system and related support equipment, which became the CAMle1935. I believe the first test installation of that gun system was planned in 1938, on the old sloop (aviso) Amiens. It was operational by May, 1940 and combat-used the next month in the defense of Le Havre.

Of course, if the Basque naval elements discussed above were armed with the indicated guns, they certainly wouldn't have been the only 30s-built vessels that went into WWII with ineffective AA armament.

 

[Regg]

...Responsive to that understanding, the French firm Hotchkiss designed their twin 37mm L/70 autocannon...

French experimental 37mm autocannon CA Mle1935, why is it here?
The Basques were going to mount 25 mm Hotchkiss automatic guns because they were familiar with them - they were installed in Bilbao on Mexican G-class patrol ships.

 

[airman]

from wayback machine i have recovered book where speak about projecto 677 and 678 .

 

[Regg]

from wayback machine i have recovered book where speak about projecto 677 and 678 .

It was from this work that I took information about the projects "677" and "678".

 

[JWilly]

...Responsive to that understanding, the French firm Hotchkiss designed their twin 37mm L/70 autocannon...

French experimental 37mm autocannon CA Mle1935, why is it here?

The thread has a significant discussion of the six tons of topside weight for the battery of two 76mm L/45 guns, which are described as having AA functionality...or possibly the four tons of topside weight for lower-velocity L/34 guns. My point was that that's a lot of topside weight for a type of AA capability that some other navies already were recognizing as ineffective against the greatest air threats.

Of course, the guns would have been dual purpose, so they couldn't be entirely done without. But perhaps they could have been replaced with lower mass single-purpose, low-angle guns to leave more of the topside weight budget for more autocannons.

The Hotchkiss 25mm guns would have been a good choice for the time, though as noted the location was unfortunate.

 

[Regg]

The thread has a significant discussion of the six tons of topside weight for the battery of two 76mm L/45 guns, which are described as having AA functionality...or possibly the four tons of topside weight for lower-velocity L/34 guns...

Thank you!
Unfortunately, the Spaniards (Basques) did not have other anti-aircraft guns ...
25-mm Hotchkiss assault rifles were bought in France and did not fully meet the requirements.
There was also a twin anti-aircraft gun "Vickers 40/40" manufactured by "Placencia de las Armas", but it was bad and also weighed 3 tons.
Theme about "Vickers 40/40":

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/spanish-pom-pom-vickers-40-40-anti-aircraft-machine-gun-for-canarias.39530/

It remained only to put some mountain guns.

For other options, please follow the link.
In that topic, I proposed my version of the weapons of the "proyecto 677":

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/fictional-patrol-vessel-for-the-basque-country.39862/#post-546703

 

[Regg]

...Of course, the guns would have been dual purpose, so they couldn't be entirely done without...

And you can also remove the 450-mm torpedo tube!