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Unidentified Chinese projects

rousseau

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Don't ask me any more, even I don't know what's project it belong to.
These pix that a friend sent to me were taken from a avation museum in China.
 

Deino

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Ohhh ... are there some more picture of that strange "bird" ... or other models like that even stranger canard STOL-transport from Xian which is displayed nearby ????

Don't ask me too for what project this model was build. My ideas are ranging from just a model to test a certain aerodynamic configuration especially as the wing itself is quite small in comparison to the canards, if it was in line of a still secret project (maybe a STOL CAS or light attack plane) ?? ???

These are the pictures of that model I knew so far which show that black model, the smaller white delta canrd design and the Xian STOL-transporter !

Anyway, Thanks a lot for posting ...
Deino
 

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Matej

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"X-plane black behind" resembles to me modified Shaanxi Y-8 STOL RCS model used to test various configurations of short take off an landing transport plane.

http://www.hitechweb.genezis.eu/vtol6.files/Y-8STOL.jpg
 

Deino

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Can anyone please translate that text regarding these two Chinese STOL concepts ?????

Thanks in advance, Deino ???
 

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Deino

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PS: Just an idea ... the only other aircraft with a similar configuration was the Aermacchi MB-341B as posted by boxcite in the Aermacchi-tread. (maybe a connection ???? )

Deino ???
 

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Deino

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Deino said:
Can anyone please translate that text regarding these two Chinese STOL concepts ?????

Thanks in advance, Deino ???

Huhu .... no-one can translate Chinese ??????
 

rousseau

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“抬”式气动布局是我国气动工作者在20世纪70年代提出的飞机设计新概念——它强调根据飞机平衡飞行状态中能获得最大最大配平升力和最小配平阻力的原则配置升力翼面。具体做法是:综合利用飞机动力装置的能量,主动建立或加强飞机串置翼面之间的有力干扰,弥补由于前翼面对后翼面下洗作用造成的升力损失,并抑制全机焦点(升力中心)的漂移。从而发挥两个产生正升力的升力面“抬”着飞机飞行的潜力。实验数据说明,按这种原则设计的飞机,可以显著地改善其起降、爬升、盘旋等机动性能和巡航经济性能。
TRANSLATION:
"Uplift" type aerodynamical configuration was a new concept out of aerodynamic workers of our country in 20 century 70's
-- Which emphasizes that setup lift wing ought to according to obtain max. balance lift and minimal. balance drag in a balance flight.
Specifical modus operandi is: comprehensive utilization of energy, by initiative establishing or strengthening advantageous influence between the tandem wing,
to remedy the lift which lossing by air flow from front wing washing to back wing, and restrain the drift of plane's lift focus, so that situation like two lift produced by two wing uplift plane's airframe.
Experimental data indicate that, in line with this principle of the design of airfraft, which capability of taking-off, landing down, climbing, hovering and economic cruise all can be improved.

These words so specilized! I am too tired! :( The accurate meaning I translated wrongly or lost maybe, have to rely on your superior ability of comprehension.
 

Deino

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Thanks a lot for Your help, even if it unfortunately confirms my assumption that they were only built as concepts for testing wing-canard-configurations. (I had the hope for a still secret STOL CAS-fighter/-fighter-bomber)

Cheers, Deino
 

Deino

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Sadly I don't know anything more than that I have another picture of that plane from behind showing more clearly the tail-hook and the folding wings ... if it was an actual running project or just a modellers dream ... ???

Do You have any info, where this picture was taken ???

When I'm back home I'll post the second picture.

Deino
 

Deino

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Here it is ...

Deino
 

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windingroad

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as far as i know,this is just a model at a exhibition,someone said this is a concept for carrier attacker
 

hesham

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Hi,

The CHIAC Z-10 is a project for tanden two seat attack
helicopter.
 

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Deino

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hesham said:
Hi,

The SAC J-8X is a project for new shape fighter develop
from J-8II.

Do Ypu have any more facts or information on this ?? Is it a recent effort or an old project ?

I can't think of once another project based on the J-8II other than an "end-life" update to the J-8F configuration.

Deino
 

Deino

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hesham said:
Hi,

The CHIAC Z-10 is a project for tanden two seat attack
helicopter.

Not a project ... it's already flying !!!
 

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hesham

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Hi,

Old reports about China aircraft from 1960s and 1970s said that
the F-8 (in that time used suffix F instead of J) was single engined swept
wing fighter with air intakes beside the fuselage and with R-11 engine,
the F-9 was swing wing fighter with two R-11 engines,the F-12 was
a copy of MiG-23 swing wing fighter with little different and a variant
of F-12 with swept wing,the J-12 was showed here;

http://avia.russian.ee/air/china/namc_j-12.php
 

Pioneer

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The J-12 project looks as if it had some F-4 Phantom II influence, with its outer wing upward dihedral

Regards
Pioneer
 

Deino

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Pioneer said:
The J-12 project looks as if it had some F-4 Phantom II influence, with its outer wing upward dihedral

Regards
Pioneer

Surely not ! This would only be by coincidence as the wing has a completly different platform or geomety !

As far as I know it was designd and constructed by using proven J-6 and J-7 manufacturing techniques even if for the first time - esp. to achieve this very low weight - Nanchang developed and introduced many new structures and materials never used in Chinese fighter projects before like the fuselage the centre wing used integral fuel cells. For the first time some kind of metal honeycomb and carbon fibre compound structures were used. Other new materials were titanium alloys in some areas, an aluminium alloy landing gear and a single-piece windshield.
 

hesham

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Hi,

Anther important thing in that old reports that the F-10 which
was designed during the 1970s,but no details were available to
it in that time.
 

Deino

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hesham said:
Hi,

Anther important thing in that old reports that the F-10 which
was designed during the 1970s,but no details were available to
it in that time.

Yes it was only mentioned with a smll note in one source as a "huge heavy fighter to be equipped with powerfull onboard systems and an impressive missile load" ... others suggest that it was the first chinese concept with VG-wings but two small and blurred pictures showing a fighter-concept that fits to this description shows a J-8-like delta wing. ... Sadly nothing more ! :-[

MAybe look here, this is an impressive artist-rendering of how it might have looked like:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1641.0.html (Teaser 2)

Deino :eek:
 

hesham

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Hi,

I have a 3-view to old Shenyang F-12 (MiG-23) project,
but I can't send it,who has this drawing ?,specially if
we know that it was estimated to be fitted with Rolls-
Royce turbojet engine.
 

Deino

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hesham said:
Hi,

I have a 3-view to old Shenyang F-12 (MiG-23) project,
but I can't send it,who has this drawing ?,specially if
we know that it was estimated to be fitted with Rolls-
Royce turbojet engine.


Please do Your best to find this 3-side ! ... but what's so special about that ?: There was actually never a J-12 (MiG-23) project to be fitted with a Rolls Royce engine. The only truely MiG-23 derived project - or at least inspired in its final version - was the Nanchang Q-6 fighter bomber. But this was actually planned around the WS-6 (Type-910) ... later WP-15 (= R-29) and finally canceled even if there are rumours that finally the WS-9 (= Spey 202) was also considered.

Very similar the Chengdu J-9 fighter and interceptor: first the WS-6 ... later the WP-15 and finally cancelled.

Cheers, Deino
 

hesham

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Hi Deino,

I spoke about old informations from early 1980s,and the F-12 was different
a little in its shape than the MiG-23,such as fuselage,wing and tail were
more modernised.
 

Deino

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hesham said:
Hi Deino,

I spoke about old informations from early 1980s,and the F-12 was different
a little in its shape than the MiG-23,such as fuselage,wing and tail were
more modernised.

Sorry Hesham, if I was not clear with my statement - I never thought You were refering about a "real" project !

But it's quite interesting how persited there rumours about a swing-wing, delta-winged derivate of the MiG-23 or esp. a Spey-powered "F-12" appeared in the West during the 70's - 80's.

I'm only very much interested in this drawing similar to the "early" renderings of Russian fighters.

Hope You will finf it.


Cheers, Deino
 

rousseau

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I have been reading, does you guys mean this?
 

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rousseau

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factually it wasn't a fighter whereas an attacker.
The Q-6 was desgined as F-16 style inlet, nose, Flogger's swing-wing and fuselage with fitted taileron.
The inlet for such aircraft was too small to make enough airflow for this aircraft being fighter.
The Q-6 never been built even mockup, all we can see today only is 3D paint by PC.
Concerning the size, MiG-23 is good refenrence for this unbuilt project I think.
 

hesham

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Hi,

Anther info about CAC J-9 from Jane's encyclopedia of
aviation,
CAC J-9 single seat fighter with swept-back wings and
foreplanes.Single engined.Fly-by-wire control system.
First flown on 5 september 1991.
 

Pioneer

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Deino said:
PS: Just an idea ... the only other aircraft with a similar configuration was the Aermacchi MB-341B as posed by boxcite in the Aermacchi-tread. (maybe a connection ???? )

Deino ???

What about the Swiss Piranha fighter project ???

M.A.D
 

Deino

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Deino said:
hesham said:
Hi,

The CHIAC Z-10 is a project for tanden two seat attack
helicopter.

Not a project ... it's already flying !!!

If not once again a PSed FAKE maybe another step closer to operational service !

Deino
 

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Deino

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Just call me Ray said:
I would be willing to bet "yes"

Yes, as You think it's a FAKE or YES as a step closer to operational testing ??

Deino ???
 

RP1

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That image appears to have been subjected to Soft Glow and Noise filters - the noise does not look like that generated by a CCD. These are both cheap methods of making CG look real.

These things are always uncertain but if I had to call it I would say it was not real. Of course, the filters may have been applied to a real photograph.

RP1
 

hesham

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And well known projects;
http://www.strategycenter.net/research/pubID.113/pub_detail.asp
 

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Deino

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hesham said:
And well known projects;...

Interesting ... the upper one is the current Y-9 - de facto a much improved Y-8 ... the one in the middle is the old / original Y-9 ... and finally the Y-10 in its projected AEW-version !

Deino
 

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rousseau said:
factually it wasn't a fighter whereas an attacker.
The Q-6 was desgined as F-16 style inlet, nose, Flogger's swing-wing and fuselage with fitted taileron.
The inlet for such aircraft was too small to make enough airflow for this aircraft being fighter.
The Q-6 never been built even mockup, all we can see today only is 3D paint by PC.
Concerning the size, MiG-23 is good refenrence for this unbuilt project I think.

This is my own profile of the Nanchang Q-6:



As published in Flieger Revue in Deino's article, it will also be seen in an upcoming article in International Air Power Review.
 
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